There is a lot of Buzz on the wonders of the Li-ion batteries. Of interest is festools view on the topic. It may just change your mind.
http://www.festoolusa.com/support/Support-Article.html?ArticleID=251
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 1/5/2009 9:01 am ET by BruceS
Replies
All my GOOD tools have electrical cable and a plug that fits into the electrical receptacle!
I respect German tools.
My wife was German and I NEVER thought of her as tool. Maybe as a steady rest or just a woman as she was!.
Edited 1/5/2009 10:19 am by WillGeorge
I'm with you, Will. My extension cord "recharges" instantly. ;-)
Some notes on the subject:NiCads have the "memory" problem. If you recharge them when they are only partially discharged then on the next cycle they only discharge that far. This also ages them very fast. A good charger will first drain the batteries completely before recharging them.NiMH batteries do not have this problem.I've had 3 NiCad battery powered tools - cheapies - and in all three the batteries failed within less than a year. On one screwdriver I replaced the batteries with good quality NiCads (ie broke open the pack and replaced the cells) and again the battery life was less than a year.Lithium ion batteries have a lovable habit of catching fire or even exploding. Over a million were recalled last year. There are some videos on the web of laptops going pyrotechnic, even during meetings. Festool have a point here. The problem is that the energy density of these batteries is high enough to make them dangerous. Piercing one with a metal object is VERY dangerous.
So, why would Festool be selling them in Europe with Li-Ion? They don't strike me as incompetent engineers.http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=997Cheers
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Edited 1/5/2009 5:16 pm by PeterDurand
"Lithium ion batteries have a lovable habit of catching fire or even exploding." Laptop computer batteries, all manufactured by Sony, a specific design problem. Not to say any LiIon battery doesn't need to be handled with care (not punctured by a metal object, LOL), but I don't thing all us LiIon owners are in imminent danger of haaving our shops burn down.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I believe that there have been other brands with problems too.However my point was simply to compare types. I myself am looking for a Li-ion powered screwdriver but I will not leave it on charge in the workshop.
<<I believe that there have been other brands with problems too.>>Yep. And they were all using the Sony batteries.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
You're right. I thought that Sony were not the only ones affected.
Festool has been selling their cordless drills with Li-Ion batteries for a bit in Germany and other markets:
http://www.festool.de/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=7052&CFID=5417964&CFTOKEN=47483694&jsessionid=b2305122c2ed333f6133TR
I love it. Sounds like DeWalt not too long ago (2-3 years I think) when I asked a rep at a wood show why they not move on from their NiCad batteries that only hold a charge for a short time and very short span recharge cycle wise. He said that DeWalt knows that Li-Ion is just a flash in the pan, Ni-Cads are here to stay, Dewalt only makes the best etc etc.Needless to say I have never bought a DeWalt battery tool since then.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Interesting comment in the festool note, but I noticed the date added was in May of 2007. I wonder if the technology has progressed since then? I have the new makita LI drivers and love em. The charge lasts a long time plenty of torque and power on the drive and the drill. I also love the light weight. BTW, I Own festool stuff and respect the quality. I still don't feel bad for going this direction after the old drill died.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
I have 2 of the Makital Li-Ion and the batteries in both died after a year of use, pretty expensive replacement as well! I am not impressed.
M,
Now you have me worried about me Christmas present! I very much like the light weight of those Makita 10.8V Li-on drill & impact driver. But, like you, I would be miffed if the batteries give up their ionic ghost in only a year.
I also have a 12V Makita drill/driver with 2 NiMh batteries, getting on for 7 or maybe even 9 years old. The batteries are starting to degrade and when I seek the replacement cost (in Britain) I see each NiMh 12V battery of 3Ahr cost £59.90! That's near £120 for two replacements!!
Alternatively, I could buy a new 12V Makita drill/driver with 3 X 1.3AHr NiCad batteries and a charger for £79.00. The latter is perhaps the best route for keeping that 12V system of mine working.
Lataxe
Lataxe,
I have probably the same, ten-year old 12V Makita drill that you do, with the red 1.3 AHr batteries. Both batteries that came with the kit are pretty dead now, and I went into a battery store just this afternoon to see about replacing them. Earlier, I had looked up what Makita sells 12V batteries for, and was amazed to learn they are $72.00! That's ridiculous.
The battery store had a replacement Makita battery, 2.0 AHr, for about $49.00. But the store manager said that their company, in-house, can cut open the cases of the old batteries and replace the dead cells with new ones - 2.1 Ahr - for $39.00. Well, I can spot a deal as well as the next bloke, so that's what I'm having him do. I should have it back in a week, and I'll let you know how it comes out. If there's a battery store near you, it might be worth checking out.
Ironically, on my way home from the battery store, I stopped in at a Home Depot and had a good, long look at the cordless drill/drivers on display. The tiny Makita 10.8 volt unit caught my eye - and fell into my hand quite nicely indeed. That's a neat little tool; just right for in the shop, drilling holes here and there and then filling those holes with screws.
Another drill that looked and felt good was Milwaukee's 12 volt Lithium battery model. It's amazing the power and engineering they're packing into these compact packages. $129.00 on that one. Maybe after the Makita dies for good...
As to the new battery technology, it's good to bear in mind the words of Alexander Pope, "Be not the first by which the new is tried - nor yet the last to lay the old aside."
Zolton If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
The Lithium battery powered tools I use come with a fan cooled dedicated smart charger that charges the batteries to optimum levels without overcharge. The batteries themselves have charge indicators so I can constantly monitor the charge level and not run it too low to where the battery is damaged. I read the instructions that came with them and have a clear understanding of how to treat the batteries to optimize their life span. I earn my living with these tools, appreciate the advantages offered by this battery type and see no need to stay with what to me is a less optimum type of battery for fear of "what might happen".
Z,
I went and bought that Makita drill/driver kit with the 3 Nicad batteries and a charger - £79 and it includes a case full of Makita drill bits, driver bits and so forth. If I bought only the three batteries, the same as are in that kit, they would cost me £39 each - £117!! So, buying the drill/driver I get not just those three batteries for £38 less but also a free drill, charger and case of bits. Very strange marketing.
Anyway, I am replete with cordless drilly tools now, all batteried up: two drill/drivers, an impact driver, a hammer drill and a right angle drill. It's nearly as bad as the plane collection! I wonder who wants a 12V Makita drill/driver with no battery? My spare can go free to a good home.
Lataxe
Having flown Radio control airplanes with Ni-cads and now LI-IO or LI-PO for a couple of years now I can verify that statement from Festool. I have personally seen what can happen when li-io batteries have been discharged to much. All my batteries are charged using balancers and computers. I am very surprised at the speed in which manufactures have embraced this new and evolving technology, which to this day is still growing. maybe not in it's infancy, but definitly in it's puberty stage.
Interesting you mention the RC uses. I recall years ago listening to the stories of guys burning down their houses or garages, particularily the Li-po ones. I agree that the battery technology has came a long way since then and will move far beyond.
EDIT:
For those not into the RC hobbies I should add that the amount of energy packed into battery packs for the RC choppers or planes is far more than what most hand tools have. Some of the choppers are 5lb, have a 5' blade diameter (1500rpm) and people want to fly them for at least 15 - 20min. Those battery packs were at one time around $500 each. Personally, I am not to worried about burning down my garage with the Li-Ion batteries in the hand tools I have.
Brad
Edited 1/6/2009 4:49 pm ET by brad805
Fotze, they don't know that you go to that trouble because you have a $500+ large scale kit that you spend 2 to 2500 hours building (like my Proctor Jenny back in the day-84" wingspan) with custom wire wheels etc. flying radio control with 4 to 7+ radio functions. So you get to know batteries REAL GOOD...
We were buying commercial SANYO cells in amp/hr levels the street market didn't know existed, they were not cheap and we progressed to burping chargers---but we didn't loose planes if we paid attention.
This tool battery stuff is just smoke and mirrors, just more marketing lies by flexing the exponential smoothening of their selective testing. Watch your six. Paddy
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled