The Festool bug has finally bit, and I am now the proud owner of the TS 55 plunge saw, and a 6″ Rotex sander. I currently am using a craftsman 15 gal shop vac w/ a fine particulte filter for dust extraction for these tools, and am contemplating an upgrade. The $450 price tag for a ‘ shop vac ‘ kinda goes against the grain.
I’m looking for some feedback from you guys!
Many Thanks…. Chipsndust
Replies
I have the same or similar Craftsman shop-vac (on the model I have, you can snap out the motor/fan portion and use it as a leaf blower). I also recently purchased a Fein Turbo II. Both are equipped with HEPA filters.
The Fein has the auto-on feature, of course. This can be retrofitted to the Craftsman with third-party accessories. I also opted for the Fein bags--even wearing a dust mask, I probably inhale as much dust in two minutes while emptying the Craftsman as I do in all of the woodworking hours between emptyings.
As far as suction efficiency, there probably isn't much difference; after all, moving air isn't a very high-tech operation. The real difference is noise. There is no comparison between the "somewhat annoying" sound level of the Fein vs. the "screaming banshee" sound level of the Craftsman. I understand that the Festool vacuums are similar to the Fein in that regard.
I'm keeping the Craftsman, for those rare occasions when I need a wet vac (incompatible with the bag-equipped Fein, obviously), and for those equally rare occasions when I need a leaf blower. But my shop-vac of choice is now the Fein.
-Steve
Thanks Steve.....
I just recv'd the McFeely's catalog a couple of minutes ago which has the Fein Vac pictured on the cover.
I bought the ct33e with the domino and now use it for everything. It aint cheap, but I love the dang thing. I like the auto on. I have yet to use the variable speed at anything other than full. The hepa filter is nice for the lungs sake. I like also got the boom handle and the hose garage. The systainer storage on top is very conveneient as well. What I don't like, cost. BTW, I have a shopvac, and no comparison, not even close.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Thanks for the info. I'm impressed with the quality and practicle engineering aspects of Festool, but still not used to the prices. I looked at the product catalog and was astounded with hose, and accessory prices. However what I'm hearing, Festoll can not be compared to standard shop vacs.
Chips,
I have a festool C22, a Trend that is identical to the HEPA-filtered Fein and a Makita. All have power through the vac and auto on/off to the attached tool.
The Festool has the best performance in terms of low noise, manouverability and "attachment technology". It's also better made. However, not only is it expensive to buy, it can cost a bit to run - their filter bags cost 2 or 3 times the price of anyone else's and are not really made of better stuff. Also, the Festool has 2 stage filtering, although it seems to work very well.
When I sanded a lot (I mostly plane these days) the variable suction of the Festool was a great boon. Full-suck would stick the Festool delta sander to the workpiece, to the point that it started to get difficult to move it about. Turning down the suck stops that but still seems to get all the dust.
The Fein/Trend is about half the cost of the Festool here in Britain; and the bags cost half as much too. It too is a quiet vacuum cleaner but not quite as mobile as the Festool and has no variable suck. It adds a fine mesh nylon filter to the card and bag filtration.
The Makita is a lot louder but has 3-stage filtration like the Fein and a bigger capacity (33 litres instead of 22). It's bags are also the cheapest. It isn't as well made as the others but is perfectly serviceable, if you can stand the noise. Mine came with lots of different size hoses, adaptors and cleaning tools. (The Fein/Trend comes with a few; the Festool with only 1 hose and no tools - they're extra).
Hope this helps.
Lataxe
Edited 3/12/2008 1:17 pm ET by Lataxe
Many thanks ! I 've learned that Festool is comparable to an 'a la carte' restaurant, whereas EVERYTHING is an ' extra '. I suppose their quality can demand the price. The vacuum strenght you described is intriguing.
Bob
Another way of looking at it is that you are not paying for what you won't use. Glass half empty, glass half full and all that..
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
10/4..................
I don't have a lot of new information, but I do own a Festool c22 vac used with the 55mm saw and 150mm/3 ROS. The lower noise is a huge improvement over the shop vac with on/off accessory from Sears. The variable suction is also nice, and necessary to maintain the randomness of the sander. (It will suck it down at full power) I like this sander over the Rotex for my purposes. (sanding veneered surfaces) It is aggressive enough with coarser grits, and produces a very fine finish with the finer grits. You do need to watch your hand pressure. Keep it light to preserve the randomness of motion.
I am currently reusing the filter bags by just emptying them. It seems to work so far. The HEPA filters also seem to work well. I am getting little or no airborne dust when sanding.
I also discovered that the Festool hose connects without adaptors to my Porter Cable plate joiner and the Triton 2 1/4" router. That was a nice bonus.
I agree with the cost comments, but if these tools hold their resale value like I think they will, my total cost of ownership over my woodworking life will be lower.
Best regards, Tom.
Hmmm. I'd asked before if the dust bags could be reused and the consensus was "no". You're proving otherwise. That in itself might change some minds.
BC,
You can reuse a festool dustbag, although:
you will get mucky emptying it out it'd little 'ole;
it will reduce the suck as the bag's pores are now clogged;
you risk a bag burst, especially around the bit that pushes on to the vacuum's internal bag-nozzel.
O know..... :-)
Lataxe, clean again now.
Ah. Thanks for the explanation. I'm just wondering, and I know no one but my own experience could answer this but, how much sanding can you do before you've got to empty the bag?
BC,
If the bag gits anywhere near full, it blows off the connecting pipe and your concertina filter gets thick with dust. It takes ages to get it clean again. Also, the suck goes down and the motor labours, as a full bag and a clooged filter is essentially a blockage.
So I have a peek in there every one in a while and change out the bag when it looks around 3/4 full - fat with dust but not ballooned up. It does take a while for this to happen with an ordinary 150 RO, although I imagine them Rotex and Domino lads fill one up in no time.
Lataxe
Concertina filter? Sounds like the makings of a concert. Where can I buy tickets?
It would be interesting to do a little poll on this.
"Hmmm. I'd asked before if the dust bags could be reused and the consensus was "no". You're proving otherwise. That in itself might change some minds."There is no problem reusing the bags. I only use the CT for woodworking and some light clean up but all the stuff is dry, I will not use it for water. The vac is great, no loud, especially compared to a regular wet/dry and to me the money is well worth it to be dust free and breathing clean air. I would go with the festool over the fein simply to get use of the system with your other tools. Also, the vac's will work with all your other tools, so you get your monies worth.One note on the bags. If you are almost all sanding then they will probably wear out quicker than if your using it for a TS, Domino, router, etc. The finer dust will clog the bags after a few empties but the chips from the other tools will not affect the performance of the bags as much.
It appears as if Festool makes a reusable bag too. FES-456737 its quite expensive though >$150! For my Fein, I am thinking of getting the 1 micron reusable bag, right now I switch between the disposables and the fine mesh bag. I've noticed all the European vacuum bags are pricey. I have a Miele vacuum for the house and those bags are small and not cheap either, especially with a golden retriever that is shedding fur like crazy right now!
With a Golden have you looked at a Dyson? No bag to plug up.
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
With the Dyson, don't you still have to empty that container as opposed to throwing out a bag. Also, if I'm currently into shop dust collection, maybe a new Festool CT or finally a shop dust collector.
I know they have the reusable but for my use that is WAY too expensive. That is one of those things festool has that I think is much too expensive and I don't see myself ever buying it do to the extreme price.
DDay,Well, I've always thought all the Festools were too expensive. Then for some reason I really needed the plunge saw, and then what the heck, I needed a new jig saw too! And now, maybe the 1400 Router/CT Dust Extractor combo. The FT products are very pricey, but they do seem to deliver, more than I would have every thought. Those Systainers are rather addictive!That said... maybe the bag is kinda pricey!
What size hose were you refering to? the one provided? or an accessory?
I'm probably going to buy the CT 22, w/ hose garage, but I always want to hear from my sawdust covered brothers & sisters.
Bob
I used the hose provided with the ct22.
10/4... thanks
I'm gonna make the plunge, too.
Just as soon as I can secure a second mortgage. And a third. HOW MUCH did you say for a vac?
$450.... Includes 1 hose, and 2 bags..... Like I said before, " just like an a la carte restaurant"
Do they charge you buy the air it pulls through the system, or is that just a rental fee on the side? <g>
Good question..... here in Cook County Il. specifically Chicago a new retail sales tax was passed making our fine City the highest in the nation. I'll need to read the ordinance to determine whether ' air' will be taxed.
Bob
I'll trade you your sales tax for my real estate (highest in the nation) tax.
One other noise-related comment: Until I hooked up my PC random-orbit sander to the Fein, I had no idea how noisy it is--it was always drowned out by the Craftsman vac.
-Steve
I use a the small Fein vacuum with my TS55 and it works beautifully. I actually have the older Mini Turbo that doesn't have the switched outlet. I use an external switched adapter and its a real pain. I'd really like to get the CT 22. Those Festools are quite addictive as you now know!
I have a CT22 And a Fein Turbo II with HEPA.
I had the Fein first and it is a great vac but IMHO the 22 is better. more stable, vari speed (great when sanding) I like the antistatic hose better also.
Scott
Thank you..........
I have the TS 55 with the CT 22. Works great. I just got the 1400 router but havn't even powered it up yet. I throw the bags. As I see it the vac has too high a price tag to be taking any risks.
My thoughts exactly w/ the bags. hanks for the input
Chips
Bite the bullet and get the Festool, I'm very happy with mine, it works so perfect with the rest of the Festool line. Just a few of the nice features: 1.) Systainers snap onto it. 2.) Very tight hose connections that wont come apart, especially on the sanders. 3.) Dust wont stick to the hose. 4.) Quiet. 5.) Can be used with 20A tools. 6.) Auto start very nice feature. 7.) Speed control function nice for sanding.
Scarcraig
I ordered it this A.M. with the hose garage attachment. I have no doubt with quality, the $$$ was my only hesitation.
Thanks for the input...... Chips
So how many Systainers can you attach to the top of a CT 22E before the whole thing is at risk of toppling over? It looks like it has a pretty wide stance*, but it's hard to tell from the photos.
Also, does anyone use a Festool dust extractor as an all-around shop-vac? If so, how is its performance in that regard?
-Steve
*Not to be confused with certain senior US Senators from Idaho
Steve,
I parked 3 systainers (2 sanders and one with spare bits and pieces) on top of the C22 when carting it around a daughter-hoose, sanding her walls flat asnd getting rid of the old paint. The extending handle of the C22 along with its big wheels make it stable and manoeuverable. Them Festoolers know how to do an integrated design alright.
You can even drag it up and down stairs.
Lataxe
Lataxe, you ol' oak thief,
Thanks. That's good to know. I've been hovering on the edge of the brink for quite some time regarding a TS 55 EQ. After cutting up some plywood yesterday (and dealing with the mess afterwards), I'm closer to the edge than ever before.
-Steve
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