Replies

1. 
   Alan | Mar 25, 2003 08:45pm | #1

   Scroggie,

   Spar varnish is made for outdoor applications such as yours.  Good brands have ample UV protection, even if your door gets direct sunlight for some small part of the day.  N.b., read the label.  I've seen expensive spar varnishes with nautical sounding names that didn't have UV filters.

   Spar varnish is formulated to remain softer than interior, furniture grade varnishes.  That means it can expand and contract with the wood without cracking, buckling or flaking off.

   Spar varnishes, like every varnish I've ever seen, has a definite amber cast to it.  I don't find this at all objectionable; in fact I like the color it adds.  But, as always, experiment.

   I prefer old fashioned spar varnish (alkyd?).  But it also comes with a poly base.  I've never tried the poly, so I can't comment on it.  Many years ago made a tonneau cover for my pick-up using fir and 1/4" exterior ply for the sub-structure and 1/8" mahogany plywood for the show side.  I fiberglassed it, using epoxy resin and about four ounce cloth IIRC, and then put three coats of spar varnish on top of that.  It was exposed to the elements every day--including the scorching summer sun in southern California.  I kept the truck for three or four years thereafter, and didn't need to re-coat it or do any touch-ups.  After I sold the truck I saw it tooling around town for a year or two; the top still looked great.

   Alan

1. 
   Scroggie | Mar 25, 2003 09:43pm | #2

   Alan,

        Thanks.  I did get one recommendation to use spar varnish but I'm a little leery of advise from salesmen.  His recommendation was for McCloskey's.  It did say on the can that it provides UV protection.  It also said not to thin but the salesman suggested thinning the first coat 50/50 to get it to absorb into the wood.  Does that sound reasonable?

1. 
   RW | Mar 26, 2003 12:30am | #3

   McCloskeys is the cats meow. Good product. If you're going to do multiple coats (you are . . .) cutting it down doesn't do anything but make the brushing easier. IMHO, the "absorb into the wood" comment was rather ill-informed. Maybe if you put the door in a pressure cooker you'd get some absorption, but anyway. Several coats. Your goal is enough that when you refinish the door a few years from now you have enough finish built up that all you do is strip 2 layers and add two back to it, rather than strip it down to the wood. " If you kill a man, it is a tragedy. If you kill a million, it is a statistic." - Josepf Stalin, attributed.

1. 
   Scroggie | Mar 26, 2003 02:54pm | #5

   RW,

        Thanks.  I was planning on applying at least a couple of coats.  I'm trying to balance protection with the look we want.  We like the finish to be as invisible as possible; let the wood show off itself.  I'm looking at a satin gloss.  How many coats would you recommend?

        I'm new to this type forum.  What does IMHO mean?

1. 
   RW | Mar 27, 2003 02:05am | #8

   On an exterior high grade door which is getting direct sunlight, and you might be thinning the mix a little for better brushing? 6 minimum. Do the first five in gloss, then add your satin to the last coat. If you layer multiples of satin on top of each other, all the flatteners stack up and eventually you get a dull sheen.

   " If you kill a man, it is a tragedy. If you kill a million, it is a statistic." - Josepf Stalin, attributed.

   IMHO: in my humble opinion

   Edited 3/26/2003 7:07:25 PM ET by RW

2. 
   Alan | Mar 26, 2003 01:55am | #4

   Scroggie,

   What RW said.

   I too don't see the sense in putting on a thin first coat.  IME all that means is that you'll have to put on an additional coat to get the same protection.

   Some un-asked for advice:  if you don't have one, do yourself a favor and get a good brush.  Good tools are never--well practically never--a waste of money.  A badger-fitch brush would be great.  But if the price scares you a quality China bristle brush is a good second choice.  I own three badger brushes and I've never regretted the investment.  (I protect my investment with the additional expense of lots of mineral spirits, lacquer thinner and a brush spinner.)

   Alan

1. 
   Scroggie | Mar 26, 2003 02:58pm | #6

   Alan,

        I agree with the good tools recommendation.  I can remember no cheap tool I ever bought with which I was happy.  I have a couple of Purdy brushes.  Are they good ones?  There is nothing on the package that says anything about badger.

        What does IME stand for?

1. 
   BOBABEUI | Mar 26, 2003 10:32pm | #7

   I think if you asked any professional painter if Purdy or Wooster was a good brush, the answer would be an emphatic yes.

2. 
   Alan | Mar 27, 2003 02:26am | #9

   Scroggie,

   I own a couple Purdy China bristle brushes.  They are very good.

   A badger-fitch brush (usually called just 'badger') is a cut above the best China bristle brush.  I think Garrett-Wade carries them.  You might check their web site to see a picture of them.

   I agree that putting on several layers of satin varnish is not a good idea for two reasons:  first is the one already mentioned; after several coats of satin that finish will look very dull indeed (you'll have to have one of the varnish experts tell you why).  Second is that because satin finish varnish has additives to get the satin look, glossy varnish is harder than satin varnishes--not a lot, perhaps, but with spar varnish, that is soft to begin with, every little bit counts.

   I never use satin varnish, even when I want a satin finish.  I use gloss varnish and then rub it out to the finish I want.  I always rub out varnish anyway.  Rubbing out levels the surface, smoothes out any nits or dust, and gets rid of that awful plastic look and feel.  With spar varnish I make sure it has had plenty of time to cure before I rub it out.

   IME = In My Experience.

   IMHO = In My Humble Opinion.

   Alan

3. 
   Glendo | Mar 27, 2003 03:46am | #11

   Howdy, what's your " rubbing out" technique?

   Pleeze & thanks, Glendo.

4. 
   Alan | Mar 28, 2003 03:26am | #13

   Glendo,

   First I let the varnish cure for as long as I can stand it.  The longer the better:  six months would be great--if a bit unrealistic--but at least three or four weeks.  The point being I don't want to begin on varnish that's too soft.

   First I level the finish with wet and dry paper.  I start with about 400 grit or so, lubricated with water that has a drop or two of soap in it.  I sand until all the rough spots--from dust and the like--are gone and any brush marks or thick places are leveled out.  I usually do another very light sanding with 600 paper lubricated with more water and soap.  I'm careful to sand very carefully, with light strokes; I'm especially careful not to rub through anywhere, particularly around the edges.  With the first grit I sometimes work in little circles; with the last grit I always sand along the grain.

   Next I buff the surface with 0000 steel wool lubricated with wool lube and a little water.  Again I work with the grain.  This usually leaves a mat surface, but depending on the varnish it can be shinier (the harder the varnish the shinier the surface) with a coat of wax it leaves a satin surface (or better--again it depends on the varnish).  If that's the look I want I stop.

   If I want it shinier I move on to pumice.  Pumice comes in at least two grades that I've seen.  I really don't bother too much about that.  I use whatever I have or can find locally.  I wipe some paraffin oil onto the surface, sprinkle on some pumice, add some more paraffin oil as needed and rub with a felt block.  This will leave about a satin finish; with a good hard wax it can look almost glossy.  Again, I stop if that's the look I want.

   If I want a really glossy finish I move on to rottenstone.  I use it the same way I use pumice--with paraffin oil and a felt block--a different block than the one I used with pumice.  After the rottenstone the surface should be very glossy.

   I guess the hard parts are waiting long enough so the varnish is pretty well cured; and not rushing through any of the steps.  It's the same idea as sanding, except the abrasives are a lot finer.

   Alan

5. 
   Glendo | Mar 28, 2003 05:55am | #14

   Thanks a bunch, I'll give that a try.

   Glendo.

2. 
   Glendo | Mar 27, 2003 03:41am | #10

   If the door is somewhat protected from the elements, as you say, you could use any of several" Watco like" products on the market that contain U V inhibitors. However its been my experience that with wood oils, outside of a lab, the benefits are negligible. If you do use an oil as opposed to a varnish, be prepared to re-coat annually. Oiled wood in direct sunlight lasts about 6 months, maybe, under a protecting eve or roof several years. Oiled wood looks great, but is not practical in an exposed area on a mahogany door. If it only gets a few hours of afternoon sun in the winter, and you like the look, go ahead and oil it!

   Glendo.

3. 
   cheakamus | Mar 27, 2003 06:54am | #12

   All the houses on my street have carpenter-built mahogany front doors (vaguely "spanish" style on brick tudors built in the 1920s). Several of them, including my own, were refinished sometime in the past using a kind of almost indestructible plastic coating about a sixteenth of an inch thick and filling even the 1/4 inch deep v-channels between the planks. Over the years, they've tended to yellow and become more transluscent than clear, and about 6 years ago, I decided to refinish mine.

   After much effort, I discovered the easiest way to remove the plastic finish was to use a 60-grit sanding disc in a 4" grinder, tilting the disc just enough to bite into the plastic and easing off before it bit into the wood. To make a long story short, I got it all off and the door looked pretty good. I fine-sanded and scraped wherever there were marks left by the grinder.

   Anyway, to get to the point, I refinished the door with tung oil (it may even have been Behr), figuring it wouldn't do any harm and I could always put on another coat if and whenever it needed it. Took maybe ten minutes to do. Well to date, I've never needed to put on another coat. I did recently "patch" a small place where my son pulled off the "No Soliciting" sign I'd had on the door the first five years after refinishing.

   So I'm very pleased with the tung-oil finish. By the way, the door faces east, so gets morning sun (till noon), and is set back slightly in an alcove so no rain falls on it. Sounds a lot like your situation.