I am planning to build a pair of exterior doors for the front entrance of my home. I am confident that I can handle the construction, but I am not entirely sure about the choice of wood and finish.
I plan to build the doors in the Craftsman/Mission style used by Greene & Greene. The doors face south and receive 5 – 6 hours of direct sunlight each day. However, they are sheltered from direct contact with rain, snow, etc. I am considering mahogany or quartersawn red or white oak. My main concern is stability. Also, in the interest of energy conservation, I am wondering if the door panels could be glued to thin sheets of Styrofoam as extra insulation. I live in Virginia, so the winters aren’t too bad, but I would still like to make these doors as energy efficient as possible.
Since the doors are exposed to so much sunlight, I am thinking of using a good polyurethane finish. I have seen more than a few south facing doors with peeling or flaking finishes.
Any suggestions will be much appreciated
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but there is always enough time to do it over.
Dan T.
Replies
Dan,
Make sure your finish is UV resistant and intended for outdoor use to prevent finish failure.
A high quality marine spar varnish would provide good protection from the UV and other elements.
As far as energy efficiency is concerned, I would put your effort into effective weatherstripping/airsealing. This is by far where the greatest amount of energy is lost in windows and doors(at least half). Trying to boost R values to an appreciable degree will compromise the aesthetic qualities you are trying to achieve without gaining much in the whole picture. Try Resource Conservation Technology in Md. for weatherstripping.
UV inhibitors, Spar Varnish, Marine Varnish - doesn't matter what you use - it's going to fail. The difference is the time. With this much sun, I give you 3 years at most, dependent on how particular you are. The question is how often do you want to redo your front door. To me, maintenance sucks. Paint will give you more life I think. My front door is natural under a 10' wide porch - faces west. After about 3:00 in the summer it gets sun. 3 coats spar varnish. Finish is gone after 3 1/2 years. As a matter of fact, I have 8 of these. The only ones that are still OK are fully shielded from both direct sun and rain. I also have 3 exterior painted doors, one of which is west facing only protected with a one foot overhang. Same wood. It's fine and good for a couple of more years.
Consider some sort of protection over that door.
Good luck
jdg
agreed, none of these finishes last forever. Marine spar varnish gives a good measure of protection, and the nice benefit of being easy to maintain with additional applications as needed.
Thanks for the input. I, too, am into low maintenance. Unfortunately, paint is not an option. Sort of like the thread on the good wife gone bad.There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but there is always enough time to do it over.
Dan T.
Dan, I think you might go with the Mahogany if you can. While I love cypress, and cedar, and have built a door out of the cypress, the stuf just moves too much from dry weather to wet weather. You just as well have to figure on the wood movement being a problem. Here in S.W.VA we have dry and wet weather. When it is wet like this fall I am tempted to plane away good wood, but you have to put up with a little scrub so you can keep the cats out in the dry weather. I like the oil finishes too. You can coat your door with plastic if you want to but eventually the moisture gets in, and causes pressure that wants to break through your finish. When the sun weakens the stuf it is gonna fail. Use wood that is stable, has as little movement potential as possible, and then use a finish you can feed the wood with rather than laying it on the surface. Don't forget also that the humidity outside is always gonna be different than that of the inside. This also presents a problem of that differential causing a door to want to expand on one side and shrink on the other side. Wood never seems to stop moving. A.T.
Edited 2/4/2003 5:58:15 PM ET by A.T.
To all who have contributed to this thread -- Thank you!! This is the best information I could hope for.
Dan T.
Yeah, Dan - I appreciate what you're saying. I still haven't painted mine either. Varnish just looks better. Guess it's time to break out the repair and recoat equipment. :(
jdg
In case you are at all interested, softwoods range in r-value approx. 0.9-1.2 per inch whereas hardwoods approx. 0.8-0.95 per inch (ASHRAE handbook). Extruded foam is in the ballpark of r-4 per inch
Ken
Thanks, I would have guessed it was higher than that.
Tom
Dan,
Ditto those who suggested spar varnish with a UV inhibitor. Unless I missed something no one has addressed your question regarding species. Mahogany would be a great choice as would quartersawn white oak. Both have excellent weathering characteristics and both are about as stable as you can expect to get. DON'T USE red oak under any circumstances. It is much too porous and has very poor weathering properties. Nor is it as stable as the other two choices. Walnut would also be another good choice as it has most of the same properties as mahogany. You can buy thresholds and weatherstripping products from http://www.aresource.com
Good luck.
Mark
O.K. Most will probably disagree but with 6 hours of sun per day I'd go with cypress for your wood and a good UV protectant for a finish. Oils will work if you are willing to keep it up. If not, then go with a spar varnish but expect to refinish often.
Dan,
A vertical grain wood is an excellent choice for stability; v.g. douglas fir, qu. sawn white oak, even vertical grain cherry.
In my opinion(and as another mentioned) there is no finish that will stand up to as much sun as you expect. Therefore, I would use a finish that is as easy as possible to maintain, namely a tung oil product with an exterior use application.You will be re-doing the finish, and w/tung (or other oils) at least there's no stripping etc.
I would reseach the wood of your choice to see how it reacts to lots of sun exposure with regard to color changes.As you are probably aware some woods fade, yellow, darken, and so forth. You may need to stain to avoid a future result that you might find unsatisfactory.
Good weatherstripping is a must. I use a "kerf-in" type. There are several comparably good manufacturers of these products from the weatherstripping, thresholds, door sweeps and so forth. If you'd like a list of some of these, I'd be happy to give you one.wb
Could you comment on the suitability of Western red cedar for exterior doors. I understand it has excellent durability but don't know how well it would perform as a door.
ian,
I've made a number of doors from western red cedar. It's available in a variety of grades from clear to knotty here on the west coast, usa. The last time I checked, it was not available in a full sawn 8/4. Therefore, some form of laminating for thickness is usually necessary. If the door is to be stile and rail(frame and panel) I just laminate face to face for thickness. If the design is plank, I usually make up a stave core and laminate re-sawn veneers on the faces. This is for stability, not because of the cedar.
Other than being an extremely soft wood that will dent or ding if you look at it too long or hard, it's a fine wood for a door. Also it's light weight and easy too handle. Very durable,(except for the dent/ding thing) and a beautiful wood. Surface distressing is one way to avoid seeing all of the dents that will inevitably happen.
Cedar has a tendency to splinter a bit so be wary of that. It also splits easily, so face lamination not only solves the thickness prob. but also provides some resistance to splitting. On the plus side, it has a fragrance that most people enjoy, and if you have a hampster (or a horse) the shavings make good bedding.
Kinda wordy, but I hope this is helpful. wb
Good weatherstripping is a must. I use a "kerf-in" type. There are several comparably good manufacturers of these products from the weatherstripping, thresholds, door sweeps and so forth. If you'd like a list of some of these, I'd be happy to give you one.
I would really appreciate it. Thanks
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but there is always enough time to do it over.
Dan T.
Dan T
I'm also in the process of building some exterior doors and recently posed the same question, regarding wood species, on this forum. I finally decided to go with African mahogany. At $4.50 per board foot, it's not all that cheap but it's only slightly more expensive than white oak or cypress (other woods I was considering). Douglas fir also would have worked but I couldn't find it locally in 8/4" stock. If money were no object and if I were planning on a clear finish I probably would have opted for Hondurus mahogany.
Regarding a clear finish I would choose spar varnish. We put a new door on the south side of our house ten years ago with 4-5 coats of spar varnish. I noticed this past fall that it could probably use another coat of varnish but that will be the first re-coating in 10 years. The door gets some protection from a porch but still gets lots of sun.
Chip
Chiptam:
In your other post I mentioned African Mahogany ( Khaya ) available from Mccausey Lumber. Went there last Friday to take a look. They have 6/4 and 8/4 in 8' and 12' lengths for $2.32 bft. It's quartersawn and processed in Greece. The stuff is graded select and better, looks very good. Picking some up this week.
Dave Koury
Dave,
Thank you so much for your original post. It got me thinking about African mahogany. Actually, I was up at Armstrong's last week all set to experiment with cypress but Dennis Armstrong talked me out of it. Their cypress is dried only to 15% moisture content.....fine for outdoor furniture but not really suitable for a door. While I was there I took a look at the African mahogany and picked up enough for the three doors I need to make. Nice looking stuff and most of it is quarter-sawn. Probably should have given Mccaussey Lumber a call as you suggested. That price of $2.32 a board foot is a lot less than I paid ($4.50).
Chip
Just to add to some of the other posts-
You realise that marine spar varnish is basically intended for boats. A well kept boat gets re-varnished or at least touched up every year. You might get by for a few years without a total re-coat,though.
The two most important surfaces, but often overlooked or just skipped, are the top and bottom edges. These I would at least hit yearly.
I love WRC and Cypress, but they're just waay too soft, and have poor screw holding ability over time,IMO. My choices would be Honduran Mahogany, White Oak, or VG Fir. Make the jam and the door stop/weather seal one piece.
dan,,2 years ago i built a solid mahogany entry door for some friends.
i also gets 4 or 5 hrs of sunlight and is under a large porch roof
the finished dimension is 2 1/4 thick,achieved by gluing up 2 layers of 7/8 stock,and a layer of 1/2 stock{alternate the grain for stability}and planing to finished thickness.
my shaper cutters {grizzly} came with a 1/4" slot cutter,i ordered a 1/2"and matching spacer , this allowed me to use 2 panels,tapered to 1/4" for each panel.
i also stuffed some 1/2" foam backer rod into the panel groove prior to assembly.{i allowed for expansion of the panels}betweel the panels i sandwiched tyvec housewrap cut to the exact sike of the panel.
the entire door is glued up with gorilla glue and stained with minwax special walnut.
i then sprayed 5 or 6 coats of spar varnish over the entire door gradually thinning each successive coat and sanding between coats.
the door has held up wonderfully!.
here in Pa. wecan have a temperature difference of up to 100 degrees from inside to outside and the door hasn't shown any ill effects!
good luck!!
Thanks -- that is some really good information. I have read about Gorilla glue, but never used it. I understand it's great for exterior applications.Dan T.
wood is a horrible insulator! The only thing worse is metal! Just think of the therma bridge every 16 inches on the typical home! If you doubt me come to my house and you can feel each and every 2x4 on the old stick built portion of the house! It's the part that's at 25 degrees when it's 10 below outside...
I deleted my previous message. The idea that wood is a good insulator was in regard to Hoadley's comments in "Understanding Wood". He refers to wood 2x4s as having good insulating value, but he was comparing them to metal supports at the time. I guess I got confused. The 2x4s would be equivalent to light insulation, but a wood door would be much thinner, and wouldn't give as much insulation as I thought it would. I still don't know if I would go with insulation inside an otherwise solid wood door though...
Tom
With the abuse a door gets, I think you need to build it as strong as possible and just consider it a heat loss!
Try using Padauk, Its one of the most stable woods available and the cost is not too bad. It has a beautiful red cast to the grain and is very dense
I had sash and door shop in Southern Cal. and sold a door line made in the Philippines, which both are now closed. The wood was called Narra Teak ( Solomons Padauk) & is in the Padauk family. The manufacture also finished the doors with a water base Varathane Commercial grade and wet sanded with Paint thinner. Once rubbed out, the finish was coated with Armour all.
Talk about a smooth finish Wow.
The construction of the doors used what is called a fox wedge dovetail mortise. Once the door was glued up it is not coming apart for nothing. Talk about stable its one of the most stable woods in the world.
You said that the door used a fox wedge dovetail mortise. Could you describe this? I have not heard of it. Thanks.
Dan, the fox wedge dovetail in simple terms is a mortise and tenon joint, with the addition of two wedges. The mortise instead of being straight, it is back cut on the styles going from top to bottom like a dove tail would look. On the tenon, their you would split it at two points (5/16" to 3/8" from each edge and the depth of the tenon) so when the wedges are added while gluing up, the wedges press against the bottom of the mortise and force the wedge into the split to spread the tenon against the side of the mortise and wala. Dry fit the doors first with out the wedges other wise you may not be able to get the door style and rails apart.
I will see if I can find a old catalog with a picture. If so I can scan the photo and post it for all to see. I am new to this forum and will need help for when I have the photo to post here.
regards
Tony Czuleger
From your description, might this also be called a blind, double wedged tenon? I did blind single wedged tenons once, and the glue up of the stool, with 4 turned stretchers attached this way, was a bit harrowing. A bit of coaxing was needed. I guess I would do it again if need be, but one mistake, and you are going to be recutting some wood. Forest Girl is an artist at posting photos. She has helped me, and others, with this process. The first ones that I posted were so large that the dial-up'ers were quite frustrated. About 50K per pix is much more polite. I jsut didn't know how to do it at first.
Yes I would thinks so.
I agree Padauk is a beautiful wood, but the brilliant color fades fast in sunlght to a grey/brown unless you have a really good uv block.
ken
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