Hi,
Anyone here familiar with engineered flooring. (Special Patina Relics Collection. (Award flooring) I was just wondering how likely that 1/2″ flooring is likely to bow/warp. They claim it’s great in basements and bathrooms. (areas where there is more than average humidity)
I had the flooring tested for moisture with a Delmhorst moisture meter by a flooring company. Is it normal to have several different reading in the one board? anywhere from 9-17%? I”m thinking the product was stored in a warehouse for over 3 yrs. Many of the boards were bowed/warped. But I noticed in the install instructions that some of the boards may be slightly bowed… that’s exceptable. hmmm How bowed I wonder??????? how much bowing is exceptable. IF plywood bows/warps is it likely to stay bowed when installed (this is tongue and groove flooring)
I had an engineered hardwood floor installed 3 weeks ago and from the moment it was laid it was “crackling”. Everywhere you walked you could hear “crackling sounds”. The floor was a float-in installation. But unfortunately, the installer decided to blatently disregard the manufacturers installation instructions. He nailed an area of the flooring in the main room and completely nailed down the hallway leading off he main room with no foam underlay. He used a 2-1 foam underlay in the main room. He did not leave any room for expansion. No expansion gap was left around the perimeter of the foom.
I need to know what’s causing the “crackling”. I read on one interernet site that it could be the glue that was drying.. if the floor wasn’t clamped properly before the glue was dried meaning the tongue wasn’t seated fully in the groove then when you walk over it the glue bond breaks. Is that true?
The company wants to blame the problem on the mositure in my bungalow. Saying it’s due to the environment. But my rebuttle to them: why did a professional installer lay the floor if he thought moisture was a problem. He never once came to me and told me there was a problem. I am now left with a Crackling floor. I am blaming my problem on a defective installation. They netted /tented the floor. They nailed a floating floor. I am getting nowhere with this company. Even had a representative come in to have a look. all he did was whip out his moisture meter. He says it’s not the product.. I’m not so sure but I’m not arguing that.. NO EXPANSION GAP. This problem is multifacturial.
Can you also measure the relative humidity in a room with a Delmhorst mositure meter? Or does it just measure moisture in wood? Because I forgot to ask the representative from the flooring company if he measured the RH in the livingroom before suggesting to me I need to put in another dehumidifier upstairs. I have one down in my basement. It’s an open basement (unfinished) RH in the basement is 64% Upstairs was around 47%. last time I checked.
I need a plywood expert to help me out. Someone who knows that flooring. I paid $5.99 sq.ft Canadian.
Wanda
Replies
this is a bump, also you might find someone who has used that product over at breaktime. I would post this over there for sure.
IMHO the installer should have followed the manufacturers instructions. That is what your paying a 'professional' installer for. Since the installer did not, it will make it more difficult to come to a resolution, but I would ask a sales rep to come out and note the lack of expansion gap and other evidence of improper install, if you haven't already. Floating floors need to float, and need an underlayment/ vapor barrier. Sounds to me that you got a bad install.
Webby
Edited 8/18/2009 3:43 pm ET by webby
Wanda,
I'm no expert, but I'll relate my experience to you. Perhaps it will help.
Here in Texas we lay the floor on a concrete slab. To do this, and I would expect also on a wooden sub-floor, you must first "float" the floor. That is, use a product called float, (I wonder who thought that up...), to completely level the floor. It may take two or three applications to get a level surface. I believe the instructions on the flooring or the bags of float say no more than 1/4" out of level across the whole room.
The crackling you are hearing is the caused by the floor not being properly floated. The glue dries and shrinks and the floor has a gap between it and the sub-floor. When you walk on it it is spongy and crackles. It will never go away.
Your floor was NOT installed properly. You need to get the technical rep from the flooring company to come out and see/hear the installation. Don't let the salesman in your door. He's just going to tell you everything's OK.
The existing floor will have to be demolished and a new floor laid. Here in Texas our flooring store sent an illegal alien and his 14 year old cousin to lay our floor. I was out of town at the time or I would have stopped it right there. Needless to say, they mucked up the job. I had a real fight on my hands with the sales pig. When the tech guy walked in the first words out of his mouth were, "this all has to come out."
Good luck. I hope you get straightened out. Our new, properly installed floor is great.
Wanda,
I installed a floating engineered floor in my basement last year. It really is a great product when installed properly. The stuff I used was from Windsor Plywood, and didn't glue together it 'clicked'. It cost me a little more, but it was a wider board which was what I wanted.
It looks to me like the floor was improperly installed. Manufacturers give instructions for a reason. The expansion around the edge is important, if it has no room to expand it will lift. The lift may only be light, but when you walk on it your weight causes the floor to shift lifting at another point. All this shift either causes stiff glue joints to crack a bit, or the wood to shift against each other.
I actually had this problem in my last basement. I installed a laminate floor in the early spring the last job before summer. I had put spacers around the room to keep the proper expansion joint, and forgot to take them out. Half way through the summer I noticed the floor was making noise… When I removed the spacers it still took a week or two to return to normal. The floor had shifted enough to close the expansion gap in the doorway preventing me from installing the gap cover.
You may want to look through the instructions on your flooring. I'm sure mine had humidity ranges that the floor could be installed in. I wouldn't just take the companies word that its your bungalow.
Buster
Is the product faulty... probably not. The manufacture will rightfully say if it is not installed according to our specifications, it is not our responsibility. That leaves the installer or contractor. He is the one who is responsible for the "means and methods" of installation. If he did it wrong, it is his issue to fix it. The floor needs to be removed and reinstalled following the recommended methods. The installer did it wrong. He needs to correct his work. This may come down to the nature of your agreement with the installer, contractor or store who arranged for the installation. What sort of agreement did you make? In the end you may be arguing that the installer did not follow the standards of the industry or practice... which would be to follow the manufacturers' printed instructions and information. But it's hard to find anyone who can follow instructions anymore. Still as the legal minds will tell you, ignorance is not an excuse... particularly if they represent themselves as being "professional." Peter
I think that you meant to respond to Wanda. But I fully agree with you.
Frankly the term professional is used too often. It's used as a marketing term.
I installed a similar engineered hardwood floor (thinner) in a couple rooms a while back and remember the warnings about leaving any amount of water on the floor (even after installed). I would NOT install such flooring in any kitchen or bathroom. I have similar humidity conditions in my house (Ottawa) and would NOT install this stuff in the basement. For what its worth, however, I do not believe your problems are due to humidity. Even the warping, from what I've seen, is due more to physical storage than water.
I use the leftover material in the shop all the time for various jigs and spacers. Great stuff. I would not use it on the main floor of my house again. (May have more to do with how slippery it is for the kids.)
The instructions call for thin foam underlay because the flooring is very hard, flat (when installed), and flexible. Walking on it without the foam would probably cause it to click against the plywood floor/screws (not so flat). They also mention spacing around the outside because it will expand. Your floor should have never been fixed to either the plywood OR the walls.
"Professional" only means he takes money for his work; has nothing to do with quality or knowledge. (But I just described that in another thread.) I would take whatever means necessary to have the job redone or have your money refunded. Anyone can install this stuff properly (if they can read).
Andy
Hi Carya,
Even the warping, from what I've seen, is due more to physical storage than water.
What do you man "physical storage"? Pretty sure you're referring to the material being stored improperly.
They may want to blame this on the environment (moisture) but I am blaming it on a defective installation. Plus I'm pretty darn sure that discontinued flooring was not stored properly. A flooring person told me that patina relics was probably stored for 3 yrs. I'd be willing to bet it's not the subfloor that's giving off the moisture it's the flooring material itself. Perhaps it should have been allowed to acclimate for a few days before it was installed.
Bottom line is they installed the floor in an environment full of moisture. It was the responsibility of the installer to check out the subfloor and environment before going ahead with the installation.
I thought Neanderthals were extinct but it appears they are still thriving in some parts of the country!
Wanda
By physical storage, I mean the way they are stacked. They could be stored on an uneven surface or over the edge of a shelf. I noticed in the shop that the offcuts can take a bad shape if I leave them to bow under their own weight. Stored flat, they stay flat. As far as your installed floor, I think you need look no further than the mfgr's written installation instructions to prove the 'pro' wrong and get your money back. "I thought Neanderthals were extinct but it appears they are still thriving in some parts of the country!"Yes, and they seem to call themselves "contractors". When I have someone do a job I cannot or will not (anything up high) do, I get several quotes and never take the lowest price. I take the one with the most honest, comprehensive description of how they plan to do the job. I would be more impressed if the contractor's last name was Holmes. ;) Good luck with your fight. Andy
crackling engineered floors.
My belief is that this is definately the installers fault.
I had engineered floor installed on the first floor of my home. It was perfect; never a problem. 4 years later, I had a repair done. The wood was the same for we purchased extra. We allowed it to sit in our home for 3 days before installation. The crackling takes place only where the repair was completed . The rest of the floor is still perfect. The rest of the floor neveer gave me a problem. The newly installed floor stated problems after about 1 week or so.
crackling engineered floors.
My belief is that this is definately the installers fault.
I had engineered floor installed on the first floor of my home. It was perfect; never a problem. 4 years later, I had a repair done. The wood was the same for we purchased extra. We allowed it to sit in our home for 3 days before installation. The crackling takes place only where the repair was completed . The rest of the floor is still perfect. The rest of the floor neveer gave me a problem. The newly installed floor stated problems after about 1 week or so.
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