Replies

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Mar 28, 2008 07:14am | #1

   The Rae mixture is not at all appropriate (if ever it is) over a film finish, it is essentially an oil/varnish mix with a little "slurry" built in to speed the pore filling process.  I don't really know how Rae uses it, but it is only usable over unsealed wood.  It should be applied, allowed to penetrate and then thoroughly wiped off.  If allowed to remain on the surface it will make a soft and practically gummy finish.  It should only be used as an "in-the-wood" finish.   

   In your case, when it was applied over varnish, it couldn't really penetrate and when wiped off it did come off, almost entirely.  Frankly it's not something that I would use and hardly worth putting on a video. 

2. 
   blewcrowe | Mar 28, 2008 05:26pm | #2

   I think Waterlox is a most underrated (or under-known) wonder of a finish. It gives a finish highly resistant to water or alcohol, and can be brushed or wiped on. I've never tried spraying it but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

   Often, I'll do my first coat as a generous wipe on in combo with 400 (or 1000) grit paper. Let it sit a day or two then sand it back. Really smooths out wood like cherry.

1. 
   user-83153 | Mar 29, 2008 12:28am | #3

   blewcrowe,

   I agree that Waterlox seems to be relatively obscure for such an easy to use and fine varnish. It would be wonderful if somehow we could replace all of the Minwax poly at the borgs overnight with Waterlox. It's tung oil and phenolic resin formulation makes for a very hard, very moisture resistant varnish that is pretty color stable. Of course it costs a little more to make than poly varnish, so Minwax couldn't afford to pay Norm as much to use it whether poly is an appropriate finish for his project or not.

                    Rob

1. 
   blewcrowe | Mar 29, 2008 02:34pm | #5

   Good ol Norm. While I don't like his Minwax, I still think he's an okay guy.

   Norm. Hmmmm. Let's start an argument! With any luck, we can surpass the LieNielsen thread of twenty three million posts.

2. 
   brink | Mar 29, 2008 07:04am | #4

   Thanks for the reply. I will try your method of saning in the waterlox on the final coat. I do not want a shiny surface for a dining table, just something that is durable and easy to clean. After final sand-in will coat with wax and see how it looks. Its great to get advise that is not on the can that some one else has experiamented with for a final  solution.

1. 
   blewcrowe | Mar 29, 2008 02:45pm | #6

   Let me clarify. I am not saying to sand in on the final coat, rather, the earlier ones. If you want the finest looking finish, your last couple coats should be wiped on with no sanding.

   Your cure out wants be AT LEAST a week. That's a week. As in seven days. Like 168 hours. Which is fairly similar to one-quarter of a month. Or in other words ... one fifty-second of a year. Have you got that straight, Brinky?     Brinky? ARE YOU THERE BRINKY???? .... Oh good. Whatever day of the week it is when you put on your last coat, write that down. If that day is Friday, for example, then write down "Friday". Then next to the word Friday, you write, "I swear, me, Brinky, I aint gonna do absolutely nuthin else to this here piece, until the next Friday comes around agin." So, as you can see, I'm somewhat suggesting that you cure out for at least a week. As in seven days ......... like .......................

   Edited 3/29/2008 7:45 am ET by blewcrowe

3. 
   bones | Mar 29, 2008 05:59pm | #7

   I'm in the process of doing a cherry hutch. The finish I've chosen is waterlox.  I spoke with my older brother who has done a lot of finishing in cherry. I had never heard of waterlox. He's never steered me wrong so I've been making some test pieces and the have turned out fantastic.  My only gripe is the $$$.  I want a low luster no plastic look.  He reccomended the waterlox satin.  I've applied(sprayed) two coats of sealer and two coats of original satin and rubbed between each with 4x Steel wool. Covered with a wax and its hard as nails and the beauty and depth of the cherry is unreal.  He's had a bedroom suit he did over 15 years ago that just keeps getting better with age.  I'm sold on waterlox myself.  I can't imagine needing another thing on top but again finishing is not my area.  Of course my desire is the view of the wood and a low luster not a glass type finish.  Not a reccomendation just an observation. 

   Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
   If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
   And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
   
1. 
   Rich14 | Mar 29, 2008 07:57pm | #8

   Bones,The manufacturer of Waterlox has done a great job getting a proprietary mixture of varnish and a combination of oils to perform very, very well. They have achieved the holy grail of any commercial/retail product: It works, it works well, and it's just about foolproof. Almost everyone who has used it likes the results.Waterlox is nothing more than a wiping varnish/oil (a diluted varnish/oil mixture). It is not magic and results every bit as good can be accomplished with a home made brew.It's not my favorite finish and I would spray many coats of varnish with a lot of leveling and rubbing before being satisfied with the result. And the high quality varnish I would use would not come close to the price of Waterlox. I'm pretty sure my finish would have a lot more solids on the wood than the typical Waterlox final film. That's just me.But for someone who has not had a lot of finishing experience, who doesn't want to spend a lot of time on the finishing part of a job and who doesn't have the inclination to experiment with a home-brew wiping varnish/oil mixture, Waterlox is a fantastic product. The extra expense is nothing compared to the results and saving of time and headaches.Rich

1. 
   bones | Mar 29, 2008 09:35pm | #9

   "...But for someone who has not had a lot of finishing experience, who doesn't want to spend a lot of time on the finishing part of a job and who doesn't have the inclination to experiment with a home-brew wiping varnish/oil mixture, Waterlox is a fantastic product. The extra expense is nothing compared to the results and saving of time and headaches.

   Rich"

   Rich, you hit it on both points.  Finishing has been a royal pain in the arse in the past. Probably, because I prefer the building to the finishing part.  It's kinda like hand tools. I never liked them till I learned how to sharpen well and then jumped in and the skill came.  I will look to start building a knowledge and experimenting, but for this project something special for the wife, I don't want to risk it.  I've started the body of knowledge with Jeff Jewitts book from taunton and It has been very helpful. I called him at his finishing business and he answered several questions.  I got away from the minwax a long time ago and found shellac and have kind of stuck with it. Mainly because its hard to screw it up.  Now that I'm trying to get to the next level, and I really don't like the plastic look of poly, Its time to reach out.  Thats how I started with shellac. I did a lot of story boards and took detail notes on the back of each section on how I did it i.e.  how I did the dye and coats and make up of the shellac.  For this project no dyes becuase it's cherry and I want the colors to shine through with variances that are natural.  The two samples I've done are just what I was looking for, so I'm ready to go!  Take care..Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

1. 
   Rich14 | Mar 29, 2008 10:04pm | #10

   "found shellac and have kind of stuck with it. Mainly because its hard to screw it up. Now that I'm trying to get to the next level"Bones,I would not call Waterlox "the next level" in comparison to shellac.Shellac is the most underrated material we have. Nothing exceeds it for beauty of finish and clarity. It's vulnerability to some solvents, notably alcohol and ammonia has been vastl;y overstated as a shortcoming for a furniture finish. Yes, if one is finishing a kitchen or dining room table, but for use on just about any other kind of furniture, it's just not a real-life problem.If you have familiarity with using shellac, there is really no reason to go to any other finishing material for bringing out the beauty in your cherry hutch.Rich

1. 
   bones | Mar 30, 2008 12:30am | #13

   I guess the next level to me is just something different.  I don't wan't to become every problems a nail and every solutions a hammer so to speak.Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

2. 
   user-83153 | Mar 29, 2008 10:35pm | #11

   Rich,

   Waterlox isn't an oil/varnish mix. The Original Sealer & Finish is thinned to a wiping varnish consistency with mineral spirits. It is 74% Mineral spirits (Stoddard solvent) and 26% solids. A typical wiping varnish.

   The Original High Gloss is 60% M.S. and 39% solids, a typical full strength varnish. The Original Satin is listed as having roughly the same amount of M.S. but for some reason is listed as having only 28% to 34% solids, depending on the V.O.C. formulation.

   Just wanted to clear things up, or make them muddier as the case may be. :^)

                         Rob

1. 
   Rich14 | Mar 29, 2008 11:38pm | #12

   Rob,Thanks.I'm pretty sure it's the "Sealer & Finish" product that I have used. (A grand total of one can)I understand that all the Waterlox products are tung oil based varnishes. But both the "Sealer & Finish" product and the "Original High Gloss" product also list tung oil itself as an ingredient. I don't know about the "Satin" product.So I've always thought of Waterlox as an oil/varnish mixture. No matter, I'm certainly not one to rely on for much information about it.The only issue I can remember having with it is that the stuff started to skin over by the following day. I remember thinking that was a little too quick as far as I was concerned. I had poured it into a paint-type of can and had put the lid on tight overnight. I just stirred it vigorously and used it without any problem. We were finishing some koa at the time. The koa was unfilled and we rubbed out the cured finish with 4-0 steel wool to a very "close-to-the-wood" look and the jobs were advertised to have an "oil finish."Some of the other finishers in the shop used it exclusively and had no intention of switching, they liked it that much as their only finishing method.Rich