I recently bought a 15″ planer and a Delta 1 1/2 hp dust collector. I started using them today. I am planing 2 x 6 yellow cedar (also called cypress; Chamaecyparis nootkatensis). I cannot plane more than 12 lineal feet without unplugging the collector at the cross-bars in the intake port, otherwise it backs up and chips cause the planer to press chips into the planes surface and eventually jamb the outfeed roller. I am using the slow speed on the planer (16 fpm). I have about 1200 fbm to plane. Is this a common problem? Is the species of wood the problem? Any sollutions?
Replies
You will continue to have a problem until the cross bars are Eventually removed. It's just pot metal so wire clippers will do the trick.
Welcome to Knots!
-nazard
Nazard is right on. Clip the bars but be very careful afterwards. The Delta comes with a plastic splitter that has parallel bars, cut those first and see what happens. If that does not work, cut one fo the metal bars at the intake of the impeller. If you can leave one it is probably better. A plastic bag or decent size cut off from a chop saw can really wreak havoc with the impellers. Once bent they don't perform well and are usually out of balance, which puts a ton of wear on the bearings.
Let us know what works, and welcome to Knots!
AZMO ( who owns a similar modified Delta)
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Thanks all:
I clipped out the plastic bars in the Y right away. That just moved the problem to the metal cross-bars in the intake. I am reluctant to remove them as they are obviously there for a reason. I am only using the 6 feet of 4" hose supplied with the collector, no gates, etc. Flow through the hose is not a problem. The longer (wider?) shavings wrap themselves around the cross-bars until the inlet is obstructed, then the hose backs up all the way to the planer.
It sounds from your comments that this problem is most likely related to the wood I am planing. I will probably go with the suggestion to use one of the cyclone lids on a trash can.
They are there to stop you putting your hand in! Lawyer stuff! Mine "fell out" soon after getting the DC.
I used cut the grill off mine even before I started it - use a metal cutting blade on a jig-saw, then file it smooth. You've got lots of suction and 4" should be fine. Just don't put your hand in there when it's running...kinda like don't try to change the blade on your tablesaw while it's running...
Hi all:
Sorry to be so long getting back. I bought the cyclone lid and trash can. This has been a big improvement. I left the intake grill in place for now. I still get some buildup in the grill which has to be cleared occasionally but it is now manageable, about every second time I empty the trash can. I also find it much easier to empty the trash can than the bag which is pain to reinstall.
Once I have tried the planer with other woods, if I find the provlem continues I will remove the intake grill. The cyclone/trash can should catch any big chunks. Thanks for all your input.
If you are still seeing coarse material getting to the DC suction inlet, you need to improve the separation in the trash can. You do this by forcing a radical change in direction. Run a short length of pipe inside to the suction line. This will force a greater change in direction for everything going into the trash can. All of the serious cyclones employ this .
**Only the finest dust should be getting through to the dust collector.**
Depending on the style of separator you purchased, your trash can may be undersized for the capacity of the DC.You may need a 45 gal drum or a substantially bigger drum to properly develop effective cyclonic action. See if you can round up a small drum with straight sides rather than one with tapered sides.Don
Glad you got some improvement. If you need to cut down on the problem even more, consider a Thein baffle. I made one for the Delta 50-760 and it works great http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm
Barry
"Dust Collector" is the operative term here. The bars are there to keep debris from damaging the impeller. Use it as floor sweep, and suck one screw into the impeller, and it never works quite right again. Large chunks of scrap will also damage the impeller.
The spacing on the grating should be sized to prevent chunks larger than the clearance between the impeller and housing from getting to the impeller.
The proper solution is some kind of drop out chamber for the larger particles, to keep them from getting to the screen in the intake.
The chamber can be: a plywood box with a baffle; one of the cyclone lids on a trash can; or you could build a larger version of Oneida's "Dust Deputy".
For what it's worth, I'd be wary of the "cyclone" style chip separator lid. I bought one, sealed it up tight to a trash can with urethane foam, and found that I lost half of my suction. I have a 2hp Reliant. I suspect you'd find your collector with the lid can't clear the chips off the wood due to lack of suction. Of course, I could be doing something wrong. Though, when I called Grizzly about the lid, the guy agreed that you will lose some suction with it.
Before you start whacking pieces off of your DC, check out your DC setup.
For planers and joiners, you want the shortest, straightest, and least restricted flow path you can get between the machine and the DC.
If you have multiple blast gates on your DC system, make sure that only the gate for your planer (or joiner) is open - and that all the others are fully closed.
Make sure that all joints in your ducting are sealed. Your DC doesn't care where the air comes from, but you want the maximum possible air flow at your machine.
How much are you cutting on each pass? Lighter cuts create smaller chips which are less likely to clog the system. Taking lighter cuts may take a little more time, but it's probably faster than having to shut everything down to clean out your DC system.
I don't think the DC setup is the problem here. The chips that come off when you're planing a straight-grained softwood like yellow-cedar are long, straight pieces, often as long as the full width of the board. Although they're fairly soft, they get matted up in a clump very easily.
-Steve
Now I'm really confused (not that that's uncommon, though). On a good day, I can get those long, thin, shavings off of a softwood board with a handplane, but I'm having trouble imagining how a planer knife rotating at high rpm in a relatively small circle could possibly create long shavings. Chips up the wazoo certainly, but shavings?? I'm off to the lumber yard in a few minutes and may grab a piece of yellow cedar and see if I can get this phenomenon.
Well, in a sense, they're not long shavings, they're wide shavings. The width of the board by about 1/16" long.
Think of them as extra-wide chips.
-Steve
I finally figured that out after I posted my earlier reply, but I've never seen anything like that on anything I've run thru my planer.
I've never done any cedar, but I've run plenty of poplar, pine, and redwood with nary a problem. Those woods give me larger chips, but nothing large enough to plug up my system.
I don't have any around right now, but next time I plane some yellow-cedar I'll take a photo. I've had similar results with SYP.
-Steve
Dave45:
I don't know a thing about the construction of your Delta collector but if indeed it does have a grate or device designed to keep large objects out of your collectors vanes it will cause you trouble any time you are planing soft wood. The long shavings being referred to in the earlier post are created by the blade scooping up a shaving across the width of your board and in my experience softwood shavings tend to stay together in these long shavings and will plug up your system in minutes particularly if the opening to the fan has any kind of device to control the size of the object that will pass through it.
Things that can help. Run the largest pipe or hose your unit will support and still leave you with enough vacuum capacity to keep your sysytem clean. Follow the advice given in an earlier post about blast gates, pipe runs etc. Remove all screens or filtering devices between the tool and the duct collector, then be advised that none of this may completely solve your problem! As I said earlier, softwood chips tend to be long and less brittle than hardwood and tend to clog things more readily.
If it is safe and you don't mind sweeping up after yourself you might try disconnecting the dust collector and just let the chips fly. Some planers are designed to allow this others are not so be careful and don't remove safety guards!
My solution to this very problem was twofold. First I try very hard not to do anything with softwood and second I invested in a cyclone dust collector with the capacity to suck the paint off your car. Actually the folks at Oneida helped us design things and we've been very happy.
Best
Madison
An alternative would be to install one of those "cyclone" trash can lids on a drum before the inlet to the dust collector, so the larger chips fall out of the air stream before they get to the impeller of the dust collector.
The lids are available from most of the catalog sources.
The 35 gallon trash can does fill rather quickly, but if you were to suck the chips through the impeller and into the bag, it would fill up just as fast, and the trash can is lots easier to empty.
Great idea! Cheap and simple, I like your idea better than mine.
Madison
I agree with others here who are cautious about cutting the vanes.
You might try planing a board without the DC attached and then gather up the chips and try sucking them up with the DC hose to see how the DC handles them. My planer DC attachment is open on the other end to allow good airflow through the attachment as there is no need on mine to actually suck the chips out of the planer, just fast airflow to move the chips from the attachment to the DC. I also use a container with one of those special lids to collect chips before they get to my DC.
Bingo! I think the problem is that the poster is trying to collect chips with a dust collector.
Taking the bulk of the chips out of the airstream by utilizing a chip collection box of some kind will certainly help keep the intake collection port cleaner. A lid like you suggested would work fine, as would simply running the hose into a large wooden box built for that purpose, with another hose coming out the other side leading to the dust collector and a simple baffle hanging down in the middle to divert the chips to the bottom of the container.
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
I'll second that thought. The same thing happens to me when planing cedar.
While planing some beech at work with a DW735 hooked up to a Jet 650 DC I had the same problem. The small Jet DC also has a "grilled" inlet. Got to love design engineers ;-)
Have to concur with Nazard, But I could not "clip" the Demo unit.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 7/1/2008 5:51 pm ET by BruceS
The manufactures put those cross bars in to keep your hands out of the opening with the hose or duct attached you won't be able to put you hands in there anyway, cut them out & your problems will go away. The first 2 posters are absolutely right.
Stop & think about it does any other part of your DC system have cross bars that tangle your discharge from other machines? Do any of those machines have an impeller? No I thought not & the flow is just great up to the DC right well there is your answer.
My cross bars disappeared right after I got the machine & I've never had any problems.
A DC of this type should never be used as a floor sweep it is not designed to separate out anything especially metal which can spark & cause a fire in your DC. Use a shop vacuum for clean up & a DC for dust & chip collection.
Edited 7/2/2008 4:09 pm ET by Originalbart
Edited 7/2/2008 8:09 pm ET by Originalbart
I forgot to say I have had my 2 HP DC for about 8 years without the Spider web in the inlet & have had no problems, I only use it for dust & chip collection from the machines.
I hate to tell anyone that he has to buy something more to make a new tool work right but...... I think the solution to your problem is the cyclone collector and a 30 gallon trash can. You do lose some suction but I've never found that to be a problem. By eliminating the larger longer shavings you don't have them pile up on the cross bars and also they won't collect on the vanes of the impeller, which will also decrease the efficiency. The trash can is easy to empty when full by slipping a garden waste bag over it then upending it and with your arm down the side to break the vacuum, pull the can upward leaving the wood chips in the bag. Don't make the mistake of putting the bag into the trash can and then trying to pull it out, there's mucho vacuum there preventing you from pulling the bag out when full. Also you will increase the efficiency of your collector by getting a "Shaker felt" filter bag to replace the stock bag that comes with the collector. You'll be amazed how much better your collector will draw with one. Highland hardware has them for about $25.
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