I need to get a dust collector for a 10″ Contractor Table Saw. I’m thinking portable, 1 stage, 1 1/2 hp. Am I thinking this right? Can I get away with less than 1 1/2 hp? Also should I set it up to collect from under the table and over the top of the blade or just from one location or the other. My ‘workshop’ is in my basement and the table saw is the biggest dust producer.
Replies
If you hook the dust collector directly to the table saw with a short (<6') hose, you should be okay with a 1HP collector. Adding an above-the-table guard/dust collector would help control the dust big time, but I personally find that they are more hassle than they are worth. Others feel otherwise. When you are ripping stock, try using the stock throat plate rather than a zero-clearance insert. This was suggested to me by another Knothead a few months back and I have been using it ever since. In theory, the wider opening allows more airflow through the insert, drawing more dust into the cabinet. I have found that this makes no difference in cleanliness of cut when ripping. However, when crosscutting and ripping narrow stock that might get caught in the throat plate, I change back to the zero-clearance insert.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
(soon to be www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Thank You for your reply. Most of my cutting involves plywood for drawers and cabinets. Most recommend zero clearance inserts to reduce tearout. Under this scenario would you still collect from under the table or from on top?
Jim,
Even with ZCI's you will still get dust buildup under the saw. Dust in the gullets will still be pulled down into the cabinet and if you lower the blade height there will be openings in front & back of the blade.
Motors and dust don't seem to like each other, kinda like cats and water. :-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
For blind cuts, such as dadoes where the blade does not penetrate the top surface, dust will only be collected in the base.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Under this scenario would you still collect from under the table or from on top?
Both in my shop! a LITTLE LESS on top.
What do you use for dust collection? I've been using a shop vac to collect from the top and a box fan with a filter over it to 'collect' from the bottom. I really need to upgrade. As I stated in my original post I need something portable as my work space is limited and I have everything on wheels. I think a 1 stage unit would work for me and from what I've heard and read 1 1/2 hp is the way to go. Your thoughts?
I had a Contractor Saw (Delta Contractor II) and sealed the top to the base with Foam Insulation (easier to pick out if you need to adjust the blade/ table position). Used the Delta bottom dust collector fitting and stretched/ glued a rubber skirt ( AKA Inner Tube) tot he hole in the back. Then just mount to motor mark the ark of the path it follows with a marker and cut. Permanent seal and great suction. I used an Excalibur Over blade unit with it. No more chips and general crap in the face and body. The Excalibur really works well with an extended table ( Mine was a 50 inch).
Used a 1 Hp collector and it was great. Before the up grades it could not even collect the dust from under the table. P.S It takes 350 - 400 CFM (and 700 linear ft per minute) to keep chips "In motion" in the pipe. A one hp will only deliver that much and a 1 1/2 .... 650 CFM max. Every 6 ft of 4" flex hose causes about 1" of static pressure loss (or about 100 - 150 CFM). The same is said for every 1" hole in the system
I now have a 600 sq ft shop and 5 hp Cabinet Saw cleaned by a 4845 CFM Cyclone, with spiral steel pipe. The foregoing served me well for years. Still have the Excalibur (on a 60" table)
I have a 1.5HP dust collector (Jet cannister) -- can't say that I would call it "portable." It can be moved around, but not super-quick. I tend to move the tools to it, instead of the other way around. I keep it as close to the table saw as possible, and swap hoses out to other tools.
The braces that hold the ring for the bags are not ridgid, so it's not like you can push on them and move the DC around. You have to push on the platform. I guess you could hook some kind of handle up to the base (platform) and move it that way.
What length hose is optimal? I assume the shorter the better, but what's too long?
That flexible plastic hose causes loss of CFM very quickly. I've seen some numbers that were truly discouraging. Seems like when I had a Jet contractor saw, the hose was maybe 5' long, but it hooked into the pipe on my PSI overhead collector/guard and another hose about the same length hooked into a port underneath the cabinet. The dust collection was "OK" but not great. Way too much flex hose.
The more rigid pipe (PVC or metal) you can use, the better. Block off the back of the saw (I used foamboard from a hobby store, it was easy to cut and easy to remove when I did a bevel cut).
On the other hand, 8-10 feet to the jointer was no big deal. Even the planer worked pretty well with that much (can't remember exactly). It's just that a table saw requires so much air movement to get decent collection.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thank You for the info. I was going to use ply or hardboard to block off the back of the saw but I like your idea of using foamboard instead. Do you think trying to collect dust from under the blade and over it at the same time kind of offset , i.e. cancel each other out somewhat?
"Do you think trying to collect dust from under the blade and over it at the same time kind of offset , i.e. cancel each other out somewhat?" I don't think they cancel each other out, but the practice does increase the CFM need. If I were pushed to choose one or the other, I'd choose the overhead collector, and simply hand vac the inside of the saw however often it might be needed. The dust that comes off the blade is what gets to me.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
I wish I had an overhead, but with a moving saw I just have not found the right solution. I use the bottom side suction and have sealed up a bunch of the openings on the cabinet to draw more air from around the blade. I use a big fan behind me to blow the dust and chips away from the topside. Better than nothing, and seems to work.
Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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Hi, Azmo. Yes, the fan approach would help alot. I've considered it, since the PSI guard needs to be remounted before I can use it on the "new" Unisaw.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
More than anything it helps in the summertime here. You coming through PHX when you go to Vegas this year?
Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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"You coming through PHX when you go to Vegas this year?" Nope, I think we have non-stop flights to and fro. I could have saved $60-70 if I'd been willing to change planes at LAX coming home, but decided against it, LOL.
Maybe in 2010 we'll be able to afford a spring training visit to Mariners camp. Not this year, for sure. The IRA is in sad, sad shape......forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
To bad, we can use all the spring training visitors we can get. Your IRA and everyones elses has found the bottom lands. Don't get to excited yet, but it will go down further.... at least that is the estimation by some pretty savy investors. Maybe next year.
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I tried the box fan with a filter over it and put it behind the saw to suck the dust toward it and away from me.
Me, I use a high speed fan located behind, above and to the right of my right shoulder. It blows right at the blade and keeps it out of my face, the big stuff lands on the floor, the small stuff goes up and into the grizzly dust filter located above it. Works for me, but maybe not for everyone. I just hate arms above the saw, and getting in my way.
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I would urge you to take a serious look at some of the mini cyclones being produced by Oneida, JDS and others. Because your shop is in the basement of your house, you want the absolute best dust removal you can get. Single stage will not cut it! This is one item you cannot go short on.
As far as the overall impact of flex hose length, there is a static calculator on Bill Pentz site which can help you understand pressure drop in this type of hose.
Don
Thank You for the response. I agree certain things shouldn't be skimped on...dust free air being one of them. I've read Bill P's article, several magazine articles, tons of posts and realize that you can't go wrong with a Cyclone, but will a 1.5 HP DC work under the right conditions, i.e short hose length etc.?
Sorry for the delay. I have this day job that is getting in the way of enjoying living.
My straight answer to your question is NO.
You are in your house-your home. You will collect a lot of the trash from your tools, but you will, over time fill your house with dust particles .5 micron and finer.
Perhaps if you can put the fan assembly outside and suck as much as possible out of the building you will reduce the impact.
If you rely on the felt bag to contain all of the dust, you are in for disappointment. And worse if unchecked.
Wood dust is a toxic material. Don
Yes, working has a way of interfering with what we'd rather be doing. I've got a full timer plus a night and weekend job which ensures that I don't get to spend too much time making saw dust. I can get the DC out into a bulk head area and seal it off and after that I was going to install an air cleaner. Am I on the right path?
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