I am wanting to purchase a new drum sander to replace my Performax 16/32. I have not been too happy with it. Does anyone have any experance with the Woodmaster drum sander or any other brand that may be worth considering. All comments and recommendations will be appreciated.
Thank You,
Dale
Replies
I just came across the fall sale page for Sunhill Machinery that has one on special this month for $2795.
I have one of their 21 spindle horz/vert boring machines and it is well built/accurate
try: http://www.sunhillmachinery.com
I had a Performax Supermax that was useless. The whole process of wrapping sandpaper around a hard drum just doesn't work. The paper stretches and the grit just carves stripes in your work. I'm not sure any other manufacturers are much better but I keep hoping. These looked interesting but I'm cautious after paying so much for the Performax and being disappointed.
http://www.max-ind.com/m_catalog7.asp
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I think that Migraine has the right idea, i don't own a wide belt sander, but from my looking into it it seem much better than a woodmaster drum sander that still requires wrapping paper. I noticed that Grizzly has a 15" open end wide belt sander also. http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/specsheets/G9983_ds.pdf? Anyone have any input on these units??? or the Sunhill? I would imagine even a poor wide belt is better than a good drum sander, much quicker grit changes.
Aaron
An acquaintance of mine has convinced me to get a Grizzly G9983 15" Wide Belt Sander - $2,795. Raves about being about to sand a slice down to .025" http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G9983
I currently have a Peformax 16/32 like you and it just too underpowered to want to pull it out often and use it.
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Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
This issue was hashed over a month or two ago. You might find it useful to do a search of past threads.
It's my recollection that the Woodmaster (drum sander) was universally praised by those who own one. I checked their website at the time, and could not find any prices. Do you know what they cost?
I'm also curious to know what you have come to dislike about the 16-32. There were a few fans among users (in the thread I refer to above), but most seemed not too pleased with its performance.
Nikkiwood,
I got a flyer from Woodmaster last week on their drum sanders. It seems their prices are going up on Nov. 15th. They have four sizes of drum sanders ranging from 26 inches to 50 inches. The 26 inch is selling now for $2199. The new price will be $3407. Big Jump! The next size up is 38 inches for $2795, going to $4727.
I have had my Performax for a couple of years. It just will not handle a typical sanding job in my small one man shop without the motor bogging down and stopping. I then have to wait several minuets to restart the motor. Evan running it at a very slow speed the motor just seems to heat up way to fast. It is just not worth all the effort. Its time to replace it.
Dale
If you request info from Woodmaster they will start sending catalogs and special pricing initiatives. I just received one today. They end up being somewhat expensive when you add the bells and pay shipping.
I think most Performax type machines are alike. You need to roll out and cut expensive sandpaper just the right length and with just the right taper on the ends. You then spiral wind the paper around the drum and place the tapered ends in some small clips. On the first start up, the paper will stretch and you have to stop and re-tighten the paper. If you don't re-tighten the paper will break. Once you get the paper tight, it will start burning your work. I mark the burn areas on the hood and try to stay clear of them but soon, other burns start happening. You can't predict where or when it will start burning but usually it will be half way through a pass and score your stock badly. The machine has to be run so that you just barely kiss the surface of your stock. It may take several passes to actually sand your piece. During that time all the problems with the paper will start up and some of your work will essentially be ruined. The action of the drum cuts straight grooves into your work regardless of the grit of paper you use, grit equals groove.
If you bought the machine to help with milling difficult grain such as birds eye maple, or sanding assemblies like a panel or table top you won't only be disappointed, you will be livid when your piece comes out the other side with a 1/8" x 1/8" burned groove in the middle. You'll think it's your fault, wrong paper, too much cut, poor dust collection, too fast, too slow. After trying everything you can think of, you will come to the conclusion that they saw you coming on this machine. You will just have to admit that taking an aluminum cylinder, wrapping it with sandpaper, having it at a fixed position, spinning at speed and then, feeding a board into it, doesn't work. The first few inches will remove much of the abrasive, the next few will start to generate heat, small particles of dust will stick to the heated paper generating more heat which leads to the paper stretching, folding, breaking and all this, while your carefully prepared piece is half way through.
If you only sand a dozen small pieces once or twice a month, this may work for you if you are willing to constantly make adjustments. But if it is a daily user and you hope it will be your final prep pass, think again. I owned their top of the line Super-Max so I imagine the problems would be worse, if that's possible, for their smaller machines.
I haven't replaced the super-max yet but when I do, I'll be looking for an oscillating belt with pneumatic tensioning, platen and electric eye.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Your experience with the Woodmaster is not exactly an endorsement. Is yours a dedicated drum sander, or one of their molding machines where you can also use a drum for sanding?
I take it they do not sell precut strips, so you can just slap them on the drum (as is the case with Performax).
What do the Woodmaster people have to say about your problems? I can't imagine anyone would want to fight through the problems you have had; at least I wouldn't want to.
It sounds like Hammer is describing the the Performax not the Woodmaster. I have a Performax 16/32 and have had all of the problems he has described. That is why I want to get rid of it and am looking for a good replacement.
I talked to a man yesterday who has had a Woodmaster drum sander for two years and he loves it. In fact he said he wishes he had bought it twenty years ago.
I would like to hear from others who have a Woodmaster.
Dale
Specifically, my experience is with the Super-Max, a dedicated single drum sander only. This was Performax's first 37" wide drum, closed ends. I don't think they still make that model but the mechanics are the same throughout the line. I noticed today that pre-cut paper is now available for their machines. In the past, strips were available but you had to cut the tapers. The length and taper have to be pretty accurate. Going through so much paper was expensive so eventually I made some of my own from industrial rolls. In response to the post, I was commenting on the nature of drum sanders in general. My needs and expectations may be entirely different than others. Performax makes and sells lots of machines with many satisfied customers. Sometimes I do just a few boards but most of the time I'm feeding lumber end to end for hours. In either case I don't think the engineering works well on fixed drums. If you have ever used a small drum in a drill press, you know how quickly the paper wears and becomes glazed. The small drums are often rubber with stiff sleeves. A large hard drum with just paper wears more quickly and at the price of the paper, makes it very expensive to operate. You are changing the paper even though you have only used a pecentage of it. The price of even the most basic machines is rather expensive and disappointing for the results you may expect. Personally, I would advise buying a good belt sander and learn how to use it for smaller projects. If your work requires production surface sanding, I would not recommend a drum. Even when they work, there are straight grit marks on your pieces that have to be dealt with.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
For surfacing on Performax or other drum sanders I recommend the blue aluminum zirconia paper sold by Klingspor. I keep 80 grit in my older 22-44 Performax and it lasts much longer with far less tendency to cause burn lines. Be sure to use a rough scraper to remove glue squeeze out on glued up panel. Also run the panel on a bias if you can so the glue doesn't load up in one spot on the belt.
Unfortunately these burn lines will happen on wide belt sanders too. Not quite as often, but enough to pi$$ you off. A SCMI wide belt I used to use did this a lot.
I've had the Delta drum sander for a while and have experienced the burning problem described earlier. Since I don't use it much, except to finish sand panel doors, I've taken to doing a couple of things to minimize problems:
1. Remove pronounced glue lines before sanding...I use a random orbit sander or a scraper.
2. Clean the sandpaper with one of those gum eraser things. It does seem to extend drum life.
3. Go slow. I make many passes with small increases in table height. Try to take off too much and the machine bogs down. I make my first pass with the drum stopped, and as the piece moves through the sander I raise the table until the drum just contacts the piece and starts to turn. Then I turn on the drum and go from there.
4. Run the piece through at maximum speed. It's less boring, and following the procedure in #3, I get very little burning.
I buy the pre-cut strips from Delta, and they seem to be fine...so long as I take my time putting them on. I've not had any noticable stretching of the strips. Since putting a Shelix cutter head on my planer I use that for nasty woods like curly maple without tearout. Hence, I use fine paper in the sander...180 or 220 grit.
A drum sander is not a planer. I read this many times, but only after getting real frustrated in trying to make the sander remove more material than it wanted to did I finally "get" the message.
Good luck.
Hammer,
I am glad to see these posts about these machines. I was looking at buying one..... Now mabey not.
Looks like I'll still be renting time on others' machines.
Mikeplease excuse my spelling.
I have the Performax 16-32 and love it. I know two other people with the same unit, and they love theirs, too. But it is not a high power industrial sander like those in most cabinet shops.
The Performax is sized to full load on a household circuit - draws 15 amps with a modest sanding load. You can easily ask it to take a larger bite, and it will quickly overheat and pop a breaker. Or you can put on an ammeter, and slow it down or reduce the bite to keep it within the capacity of your circuit.
I bought the performax to solve one problem, but find that I now use it for practically all my work. The jointer and planer get close to final dimension. The Performax is most often run with 150 grit, and cleans up any unevenness from the planer. A quick once-over with a ROS at 220 cleans up the sanding lines from the 150 grit.
I have nothing against the bigger sanders. If I turn pro and need faster sanding or more wood removal, I may trade up to a bigger commercial unit, but as a semi-pro the Performax works great for me. Most of the problems I have heard are from people who needed a more powerful machine. ________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Hi Dale,
I've had the 25" Woodmaster for almost 4 years now and am only mostly pleased.
The negatives: (1) The shipping to western North Carolina came to $500. After it shipped but before it was delivered a nearby friend received a Woodmaster flyer saying a truckload of sanders was heading this way and there would be no shipping charge. I called to complain and was told they would credit my card $100, but never did. (2) Changing the paper is annoying. Getting the correct starting angle with the velcro is hit and miss. When peeling off the paper I've had the velcro backing delaminate from the paper rendering a perfectly reusable piece useless - and this stuff's expensive. It's happened on various paper manufacturers. Also, since the paper is not tensioned, sometimes while sanding (especially on finer grits), the paper will buckle and will need to be removed and repositioned. (3) If you're not careful and take too big of a bite you can destroy the velcro adhered to the drum which will leave a groove and then that area of the drum will not sand. Since I do multiple passes at each setting, it's simply annoying. Also, burning can happen on this paper too. (4) Silly switch locations.
The positives: (1) Oh lordy, this thing is strong, heavy, wonderfully built, smooth. It'll run all day. (2) Love the reversing switch. (3) One of the bushings on the infeed roller gave out after I had it over 3 years and they sent me, free, new bearings, shaft, and drum. Plus lots of phone help doing the repair.
What I now do is just leave an 80 grit on full time and hand sand other grits.
Would I buy it again. Probably. A (different) nearby friend Just got the General 25" dual drum for 2/3 what I paid and loves it.
Hope this helps, Steve
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