I’ve had a Powermatic 2800 DP for almost a year, now, and am just about ready to throw in the towel.
I’ve replaced the OEM belts with new, linked-belts, and I’ve had PM send me a new chuck and quill assembly, because my dial indicator suggested this might be the cause of the unacceptable vibration I’m experiencing.
I’ve put my dial indicator on various points of the drilling assembly, from an inserted drill bit all the way up to where the quil assembly enters the bearing entry point. As near as I can tell the variation in the wobble of the assembly is .008″ and it’s very noticeable at the point of the drill bit being used.
I have a 64 bit drill index, and there is so much wobble, when drilling, that I can take the next larger drill bit size (from out of the index) and pass it cleanly through the hole drilled in a piece of hardwood by the smaller bit (next size down in the index).
Don’t know if this makes any sense to those of you reading this, but I’m hampered, somewhat, by not being familiar or comfortable with all the terms used to describe various parts of the drill press, etc.
Suffice it to say that there’s lots of vibration and noise, and it’s not a “precision experience” using this machine to bore holes. If I chuck up a new bit (eliminating the possibility that the bit, itself, is damaged/bent), and I drill through, say, a piece of 3/4″ plywood,” and I leave the spinning drill bit buried in the workpiece, I can release the workpiece and it will vibrate on the drill press table as though it was being attacked by a random orbital sander.
I’m going to call Powermatic in Tennessee, tomorrow, and plead my case with them, again, but one of the downsides of purchasing a machine this big and heavy is that there’s no realistic way of returning it to the seller, without a lot of difficulty and expense.
I’ve read equally discouraging reviews on Delta’s new DELTA 20-950, so I’m beginning to wonder if there’s a really good quality drill press to be had for under $1,000.00
If anybody has any advice or suggestions about where to source a really good quality DP, I’d appreciate your input. If Powermatic doesn’t have a tech that will make “house calls,” I guess I’ll end up giving this thing away, and ordering a replacement.
I plan on making beds (with large posts) during the upcoming year, so I really would like to have a drill depth capacity that is a minimum of 4 1/2″ (the PM 2800’s quil travel) and the Delta’s 6″ quil travel would be even better.
Apologize for this confused rambling, but any advice or thoughts would be a big help.
Replies
Sasquatch,
I would look at the Steel City drill presses - they have the longest stroke length in their class and a great warranty - should you ever have a problem. I can guarantee you won't have the trouble getting a problem resolved, should you need to with Steel City.
Good luck with the Powermatic
Lee
Thanks for your response.I looked at the Steel City machine, but I ruled it out, initially, because it didn't have the extra-large, expandable woodworker's table featured with both the PM unit and/or the Delta units. Also, I didn't want to have to mess with the belts when changing speeds: Is the Steel City machine equipped with a transmission (like the PM/Delta) which allows infinitely variable speeds? Also, the PM and Deltas feature keyless chucks, which is an outstanding feature and saves valuable time.I'm not ruling out the Steel City, by any means. At this point, a machine that does what it's supposed to (vibration-free boring) is a lot more important that a machine with all the "bells and whistles" that shakes around like an out-of-balance washing machine.
I don't know what Powermatic's acceptable tolerances are, but while 0.008" is on the high side, it's not unheard of. It doesn't seem high enough to cause as much trouble as you're describing, though.
I have an inexpensive ($300) Ridgid drill press. I just chucked a 6" piece of 1/2" drill rod that I use for alignment in it, and measured the runout at 0.003", both near the tip of the rod and near the chuck (both measurements with the quill retracted). If I drill a clean hole through a piece of wood and let it shimmy and shake on the table the way you describe, it moves back and forth perceptibly, but not too much; I would estimate that the total back-and-forth excursion is less than 1/64". And even that could be the result of a slightly-bent drill bit.
I get noticeable overall machine vibration at some speeds, but that's pretty much inevitable, as you get close to some resonance frequency of the structure. At other speeds there's no vibration at all.
-Steve
Thanks, Steve,This is the first drill press I've owned, so it's possible that my expectation are unreasonable. On the other hand, I can chuck up a bit in my DeWalt cordless drill, and easily bore a hole that -- with one hand -- surpasses the accuracy of my $900 drill press. If I bore a hole through the same piece of oak, cited above, and use a 3/16" drill bit, then that hole will not accept the passage of my 13/64" bit -- the next larger bit in my index. I guess I'm expecting better net performance from the drill press than I would from a hand drill. Maybe that's not the way this is supposed to work, but, again, this is a top-of-the-line tool that cost nearly a grand, and I expected sewing-machine smoothness and accuracy.When I'm drilling wood, the material, itself, provides a soft enough medium so that the bit can worry about, freely, and produce whatever hole size it wants to: It wobbles its way through the wood and sort of chews out a hole. I would be extremely reluctant to use a larger diameter bit in conjunction with boring, say, hardened steel, for fear that the bit would simply hang and snap when it started to bite into the surface of the metal.
Looks like stupidity and "a bigger hammer" may have done the trick, once more.Using my dial indicator, I located the "high side" of the wobble on the chuck and smacked it pretty hard with a rubber mallet. I then tapped hard, upward, on the chuck and quil assembly to re-seat it, and measured again with the dial indicator. The wobble (is that the same as "runout?") was reduced from .008 to .005. I re-marked the high spot on the chuck with a "sharpie," and smacked it with the mallet, again, even harder. This time the dial indicator marked a difference of .003! That's about the best I've been able to achieve, so far, but the worst of the vibration has disappeared, and the wood has ceased to lurch around when I'm drilling through it. It's now what I consider "so-so," but at least it's a usable machine now.
Three thou run out is not too bad at all. Now what about the noise you refer to? And does it still vibrate? If I were you I would do the following:-
1)Remove that chuck from the quill and check that the taper mating surfaces are clean and smooth- no burrs ! Polish them with some scotcbrite.Also clean the chuck itself- dunk in kerosene, open and close a few times and hit it with compressed air.
2)Before re-installing the chuck use your dti against the cleaned lip of the quill or preferably on the inner surface and turn the shaft by hand to check any run out. Any run out here will be adopted by the chuck and possibly worsened. Run out here should be as good as zero: if it exists the bearings could be faulty. What is the noise you refer to? if you spin that shaft by hand with no belt on it should feel smooth with no noise.Can you detect any play there when the quill is clamped?
3) Replace the chuck firmly-you can do that either with a sharp whack with rubber hammer or just "throw" it in by hand- preferable to any whacking but there is a knack to that. If all is clean and in good order it will not drop out....
4) Check run out with an accurate rod in the chuck. Not just any drill will do- the ideal is a piece of ground tool steel.
5) Check the driven pulley which if cast iron is quite heavy so it it has grit etc stuck to it it can be out of balance-so clean it. Even my most horrible Red Chinese pillar drill has cast iron pulleys-and they are drilled for balance. Check that that pulley in particular is secure on the shaft. If you have other belts try to run it without going through the idler pulley (If it is this type) to isolate any noises etc from that assembly.
I suspect that you have never had that chuck and taper properly seated in the quill .....Philip Marcou
Howdy,
The oversized holes make me think it's in the quill...or drillin' end, but just for kicks....
Did you run the motor with the belt off? Do you still get the shakes? If so, your motor might be outta' balance. A long shot I think, but it'll only take a second to check out.
Smart thinking. The motor could be the problem. A loose motor mount is my guess. POWERMATIC MAKES GOOD STUFF. The motor could also have bad bearings.
I did try the motor by itself, and it ran smooth. Good thought, though.I also agree that Powermatic makes good stuff, but this thing was made in China, and the overall "fit and finish" are pretty bad. My PM 2000 is a great table saw, but it had some initial switch problems during its shakeout cruise, and it took a while to get everything adjusted properly. The miter slots were out of parallel to the blade, the trunions needed adjustment, the stops were out several degrees, etc. The saw, itself, is fantastic, but things needed pretty substantial tweaking out of the box.
Smart thinking. The motor could be the problem. A loose motor mount is my guess. POWERMATIC MAKES GOOD STUFF. The motor could also have bad bearings.
Have you removed the chuck and checked the run out of the chuck mounting taper? That is where you should start to look for the cause.
John White
John,I have removed the chuck, several times, but haven't done what you suggest. Can you give me a run-down on how to go about doing that? Please explain in "special ed" parlance, so I can follow what you're instructing me to do (e.g., where to put the dial indicator probe, etc.)Thanks, buddy
The PM 2800 is my newest tool. I don't think I have anything specific to help you, but I thought I would share my experience. The first few minutes of run time where very awkward. Belts very noisy at all speeds. Also shuddering at many speeds. But things have calmed down to a (more than) acceptable level. There's definately a disturbing resonance at some speeds, but I 'shift through' those small threasholds. Have not noticed any annoying runnout or wobble, the thing drills smoothly. I am also a newbie to drill presses, and I guess was expecting a little more 'magic' from this machine. I guess its the same with my Jet 18" bandsaw. It vibrates a little, mainly a tire issue I think, but the more I use it the less I notice, and the more I realize that this thing can do practically anything!Oh, I'm sure everyone who owns a drill press has realized this, but never use a bit with a screw guide in one. I hate to think what would have happened if I didn't have the workpiece clamped to the table. That wonderful tappered chuck poped right out (under high stress), repeatedly, no matter how slow I or the press worked. I was drilling into oak. I think the screw guides are made only for softwoods or hand drills, or both. And to think, I used to think of augers without them as lacking.Brian.
Brian:Thanks for sharing your (apparently very similar) experience. I didn't expect "magic," when I ordered my drill press: but nor did I expect it to chase me around the shop like Dr. Frankenstein's monster.:)
As JohnWW says, check the morse taper runout, found the same problem on a Mini Lathe. But also found a bad chuck on a Delta drill press, one of the 3 jaws was not scrolling down evenly with the other two. So the drill bit automatically got canted.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
ALL:
The parent company of Powermatic is now: WMH TOOL GROUP, and their Technical Service Phone Number is: 800-274-6846.
I called and talked to "Robert," who's been there forever, and is a hell of a decent guy. He's a "country boy," Tennessean, and has been a machinist and woodworker all his life. Sounded like he was in his late fifties, and he walked me through fixing the problem, demonstrating a lot of patience and knowledge.
So, "the answer" to my machine's runout was in the chuck assembly, itself. (as others speculated). The quill was out a couple thousandths, but that wasn't the biggest issue.
Robert told me to mount up the chuck in a machinist's vice (wood scraps to either side), after opening it all the way up, inverting it, and then to drive out the tapered shaft that connects the chuck to the quill assembly.
He then said to re-soak the shaft and chuck in lacquer thinner, wipe them down, and then carefully "reseat" the shaft in the chuck. He said these assemblies are "machine pressed" on a line, and that they're put together in a hurry. 90% of our drill press wobble problems can be traced back to the hasty assembly of the chuck and its tapered shaft.
Bottom line, I reassembled the two pieces, reinserted them in the quill, and my drill press now has .002 runout, which is all but imperceptible.
Drills great. No wobble at all, and the workpiece being drilled is stock-still while it's being drilled: no movement at all.
Thanks a lot, guys, for your advice, and a special thanks to Robert at Powermatic in Tennessee for his patience and professionalism.
A happy ending.
(despite my bitching and moaning...)
Sasquatch,Better late than never. I just saw an article on "Tuning Your Drill Press" in FWW #94, Pages 60 - 61. Author is Robert M. Vaughan. It might be of some additional help.Good luck, Tom.
Thanks, Tom,Good article and very informative.It was good to read that anything over .002-.003 runout was enough for the author to break down his machine and get things fixed.I was wondering if I was being too picky, but realize (after reading his comments) that I was justified in being less than pleased with a press that had .010-.012 runout when it was, for me, all but unusable.The difference between yesterday and today is hard to overstate, and I now feel much better about my purchase of the PM 2800.
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