Hi Folks,
Realizing that spokeshaves are somewhat the traditional tool of choice for shaping QA legs; and that I don’t have a working shave, I decided to try a drawknife instead. I have three of different sizes so I decided on the smallest one with a 6″ blade. The sole is slightly convex but the blade is straight. I sharpened it first on a 1″ belt sander with 220 grit. It could cut paper easily when I was done.
The drawknife worked really well, at least I thought so. I could take very fine shavings that curled off the blade. Then I got bold and tried skewing the blade so as to better shear the fibers. I was impressed as it cut through the cherry smoothly.
This is the first time I’ve used one and would like to hear from anyone so I can learn more about how these tools work and their proper use. I was pleasantly surprised how I could maneuver into really tight places with it also. Clamping strategies seem to really come into play also.
Yes, I did cut myself! Just a small nick though. Hey, they’re not all that bad for a fingernail cutter either!
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/10/2008 10:36 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Replies
I use the heck out of my draw knives. I like to skew and also pull the blade side to side as I cut. I was watching a Windsor chair maker use one at a show recently. He was hacking with the tool like it was a wedge splitting his stock. I don't think the tool was dull. He just didn't seem to know how to use it, which surprised me. I always think all windsor chairmakers are great hand tool users.
I watched Mack Headley use a draw knife on a crooked leg (that's what they called cabriole legs). He pushed it quite a bit. You could try that.
I like a knife with a thin blade. I use it bevel down, but my bevel is probably no more than 25 degrees. I have no double beveled my knives but I can't think of why one wouldn't. I think a hollow grind is a mistake.
Adam
crooked leg
Guess I should have been more explicit but that's exactly what I was using it for. Yes, drawing the knife back and forth across the cut as I'm pulling it toward me worked great. Would you describe that as a shearing cut?
I even got brave and pushed it some also. It worked really well on the curve from the top of the foot to the ankle and the transition just below the knee.
Wow, I never knew Mack Hadley uses one also! Guess I wasn't that far off.
Thanks Adam,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/9/2008 9:46 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 3/9/2008 9:53 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Yeah, he saws out the leg with a panel saw. No curves. Starts with a break cut at the ankle and goes from there. Said he's seen evidence of a break cut sawn too deep to clean up on a chair in winterthur. I'll have to look for it next time I go.drawknife and spoke shaves follow the saw, then rasps and a scraper.Adam
Awww, I cheated.
I cut the rough shape on the bandsaw, then the drawknife followed by a 4 in Hand, then a ROS sander. I'll try a scraper next time however I did use one to smooth the post block.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,When you break open the piggy-bank, the Brian Boggs, convex spoke-shave from LN is a dream.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Hi Frosty,
Right now the piggy bank is squealing like a, well, you know...............
I'm in the middle of a ½ set of H&Rs and a LV LA Jack. Maybe the Easter bunny might help?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
If you have a number of draw knives, sharpen one of them to a knife edge. You still have a couple with a flat side. Windsor chair seat carving/shaping is easier with the double bevel. I held off on recommendations from a few others but it is a benee when cutting around the end grain.
Check out Peter Galbert's site. Lots of discussion and some good ideas.
Cabriole Legs: drawknife, spokeshave and files. I can't seem to get it done without the above. I touch up with scrapers and some paper to complete it.
dan
dan,
Right now I'm enjoying the convex shaped sole on the small 6" knife. Kinda like riding the bevel on the lathe but I would assume one could do the same with the knife edge as you suggest. The bevel sole affords me the ability to adjust the depth of cut. This is very new to me so am larnin as I go. I'll have to try the knife edge too.
Now it sure would be nice to get another or three 6" knife(s). Ah, the hunt is on.
I will check out Peter Galbert's WEBsite, fir shur. He's one talented chap, Eh? Read the article in the Times Herald, nice read.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Peter has a few things going for him. If you get the windsor bug or you feel like cutting across the Ct.River, you need to go see Dave Sawyer in East Calais Vt. Peter and Curtis Buchanan are Sawyer disciples. All due respect, Dave is getting close to the finish line. You would really enjoy a visit and they must be getting more difficult to fit in. As you can imagine, most of his one on one sessions happen in the sunshine months. Maybe when the mud flows you can sneak out??
Dave is a walking knowledge bank. Tons of hard work and experience with green wood and windsors. An engineering degree from MIT probably helps with the angles. Ha
He's on the list over at
windsorchairresources.com
Hi Folks,Re: drawknife for cabriole legs-- I just use a spokeshave. There's not that much material to remove, and you can pick up an antique one with a good blade for $15-$20. I let my 7 year old use my Kunz adjustable mouth and it's fine for him. Nothing wrong with practicing drawknife skills, important as well-- but that block of wood you're carving on is probably $20+ if it's 12/4 hardwood. I also finish with the standard Nicholson #49 rasp-- it's kind of the chairmaker's standard.Re: Windsor chairmakers-- if you live in New England, you should really check out Michael Dunbar's school in Hampton, NH, The Windsor Institute. Besides being funny as hell, Mike is a Master Teacher (and chairmaker). He has devised a curriculum whereby anyone can build a Windsor Chair. In the week-long class I took last year, there were people who had never picked up a drill before in his sackback class. And while they had a lot more help from the assistant instructors, they got through it. Those of us with solid basic skills, of course, got a lot more out of it.Mike doesn't teach you how to turn-- he provides the turned parts. He teaches you all the other, chair-specific stuff.
Pez
If you liked MD's school, your jaw would drop if you took a chairmaking class with Peter Galbert or Curtis Buchanan. For a little more than MD, they offer a one on one course and you leave with the ability to turn very nice legs.
With Curtis and Peter you learn how to apply one of the finest milk paint finishes I have seen on a Windsor. Its just stunning. I have been building windsors for 28 years and they have raised the bar of quality to a very high standard.
Take a look at their websites- I think you will notice a slight difference in the approach. IMHO I am not impressed with all of the Duke of Windsor hype and the use of elmers glue on a period chair.
To each his own.
Edited 3/11/2008 8:36 am ET by danmart
Hi Dan,It would be great to take a one-on-one with anyone experienced-- I, however, had been a Michael Dunbar fan from 20 years ago-- more for his book on Federal Furniture than the Windsor deal. It was a chance for me to meet someone who influenced my woodworking from the beginning of my woodworking experience. I'm already an experienced turner, so learning to turn was/is not an issue. I think that there are lots of good options out there. Mike's first sackback class is definitely a good choice for people with no/little skills. The great thing about Mike's class is that if you have to be with 16 others, Mike's got it totally worked out. You will walk away with a chair at the end of class, and a good noseful of knowledge. The downside is that at least for the first class, if you're a relatively sophisticated amateur (I've built a houseful of Shaker, Arts and Crafts, and some Queen Anne/Chippendale pieces) you won't get much out of exchange with your fellow students-- at least in the first class. But I still had a great time, and as someone who has kids AND interested in teaching them chairmaking, it was very interesting to watch Mike and his staff teach rank amateurs. In my estimation, over half the class were rank amateurs. In Toyota Mfg. Method language, Mike has 'Poke-a-Yoke'd (error-proofed) making Windsors. And that alone is a very interesting thing.I'm going back to build the Philly Highback in August. It will be interesting to see the composition of the class.The thing about woodworking is that it's definitely a 'Your Mileage May Vary' kind of hobby. I suspect that the reason that Mike is successful is because he confronts, in a positive way, the fact that most of the people that will take a class don't really know anything about woodworking. And with some 14-16 classes a year to fill, he's got to adjust his curriculum to what will keep the operation afloat. He can't cater to the microscopic minority that can build period reproductions on their own, and take such a class because they're too lazy to figure out chairmaking on their own (like myself).I've attached a photo of a table from Michael's book on Federal Furniture that I built. Too much fun!
BTW, Dan,I'm happy to discuss this in more detail off-list-- [email protected]Best,Chuck
Bob;
IME the spokeshaves are just a refinement tool falling between the drawknives and the scrapers(I actually do nearly all the work with my drawknives and spindle scraper... perhaps because I don't have top quality spokeshaves). I would characterize the drawknife as the main tool for this process. I too have several and actually find my full size model most useful. It has a longer blade and offers a much longer stroke when making the shearing cuts that you describe. I do like the 6" convex type that you are using when working more curvaceous parts.
I assume that you are using a shaving horse? They are really a tandem tool (the drawknife and the shaving horse). Each multiplies the effectiveness of the other.
It sounds as though you are mostly doing cabriole legs now but when you get to straight spindle work it is really nice to work with riven stock... that way you have excellent grain alignment.
When my boy was too young to be trusted with most of the sharp tools I found that he could work fairly safely on the shaving horse and he loved doing that... I still have a few pieces he made then.
Clay
Clay,
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I'm kinda in the same boat, i.e. I don't have a good working spokeshave; something that I can see a lot of use for. But after working with the small 6" convex I find I can really do a lot with it. I suppose that if one takes more time on the bandsaw the spokeshave might be better as you have less shaping to do but I'm a beginner and feel more comfortable doing more shaping with handtools than with electricky!
Still building the shavehorse so the bench & vise is my tool of choice for now.
View Image
I'm making a combination shave & carving horse which at this point will have two interchangeable heads; one for shaving and one for carving. I have to make it Paddy proof just in case he stops by!
As to making the c-legs I just rough cut them out on the bandsaw and shape by hand from there, including the foot as I also don't have a working lathe yet.
View Image
I also use the front vise as I'm trying both to see which one works best for me. I like the front vise better. Yes I'm using Lonnie Birds article as a guide and have a prototype made of pine.
View Image
There's a bit of clown in me too or maybe it's that difficult place to get to?
View ImageBob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
For a guy that's about a hundred years old, you don't have much gray hair. Are you drinking the same stuff that Ronald Reagan used to?
-Steve
No alcohol or drugs for me these days.
I used to drink but have found that I feel so much better I have no desire to return to it. I do enjoy a very occasional spot of Dr. McGullicuty (sp?) or some Capt. Morgan straight up with lots of ice though.
Perhaps my wife is responsible for keeping me young! And NO, there ain't no Formula 16 in my life either.
A Foster Brooks fan,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/12/2008 11:14 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Well get that shaving horse done Bob! Mine is a simple project... you could build one on a Saturday afternoon. FWW had an article on it years ago. I copied one that had been built by the author at a class here at the Saint Louis Woodcraft store. I think my dumbhead is called a Swiss pattern?... I'm too dumb to remember.
It really is great though. You can clamp and reclamp very quickly, work sitting down, save your back! I often carry mine outside in nice weather and enjoy my guinea fowl and chickens company while I work.
I also have a push knife (Frost, Swedish) which is like a small drawknife with the oval handles set in line with the blade. I have used it a fair amount too. It is fairly inexpensive ($17.99 at Woodcraft). Link here: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=3017
Here's some pix of my shaving horse which must be too old to be in the FWW archives. It is all just SYP 2x6's and 2x10's except that I used some hackberry for the legs. It's not the nicest shaving horse but I guarantee it'll be much nicer to work at than your vises.
Have Fun!
Clay
Clay,
Oh,I like your horse.
Mine will be similar with the dumbhead removeable and or exchangeable with a carving fixture. I say and/or as I'm not sure yet whether I want to be able to simply add the carving table to the dumbhead table (where the workpiece sets).
Don't have but one hen (Rhode Island Red) but rather an inquisitive kitten that likes to catch/play with the shavings as they come off the wood. Hope to have many sessions on the front porch as nice weather approaches as passersby gawk and wonder what this old fart is up to.
Pushknife - now thats what I need! Along with maybe the Flexcut 3" drawknife from Woodcraft. Says you can work both concave & convex shapes with it. Ha, who needs a spokeshave!?
Thanks again,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
You're gonna git an infarction bent over like thet. Turn the shop sideways: that's whut I do.
Ever try Bombay Sapphire? Turns the shop sideways like nobody's bidness and you never make no mistakes when you use it neither.
In an attempt to refine my skills (self taught and most likely not good) could anyone offer suggested ways of using a drawknife. I find that you quickly learn about grain direction which is a good thing.
Also, I am taking very light cuts and riding the bevel to determine determine depth of cut. This oftimes means several swipes to get it right.
Any techniques would be most appreciated.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Any techniques would be most appreciated.
Bob
Looking at the pictures of your position as you work the drawknife, I would suggest that you skew the knife as you pull it. Its actually easier on the hands and you can use the entire knife edge as opposed to just one small section. When you pull it without letting it slide a bit it digs in. Really its like skewing the handplane it just helps. As mentioned earlier, the double bevel can be a joy to use once you get the feel. I rarely pull down my flat knife. After whittling over 1000 spindles you get a feel for what works for you.
One other tip if you get that shavehorse working: take your drawknife and get rid of the varnish on the handles. If you want to explore some nice shaves and drawknives go to windsorchairresources.com and check out the tools.
I'll send a couple photos when I get a minute. Couple drawknife ideas.
By the way Bob, just slabbed a red maple 24-28" diameter red maple log 16' slam full of curl. It will be ready in 2011. Don't want to get in a rush. Had 2 offers for the center slab - 500.00(half the price of the log). Just can't part with it right now. The curl is as tight as a crab's a$$ in low tide.
dan
dan,
Would that be considered a shearing cut? I think so. It's interesting that you mention that as last night I was experimenting and found the same thing. Takes a bit of practice bit makes for a cleaner cut. I was noticing on some cuts that the knife had a tendency to dig in, especially if I misread the grain direction. This way on a misread it at least doesn't seem to dig in so much.
I would like another 6" knife to apply a double bevel on. Don't want to change this one and the other 2 I have are much larger, think 10" & 12". As to the handles I'm glad you mentioned removing the finish. Th eones I have do not have any finish on them and I kinda like them that way. They grip very well (to me) and no slipping. Will go to the windsor chair site; thanks for the pointer.
Hope you had a chance to get some pics of that maple log. I'd very much like to see them and the ones you have of the knives.
A new drawknife larner,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Will send a photo or two of the drawknives I have around.
Log: already stacked and stored. Lifting 12/4 slabs 24" wide is an olympic task. I got some help from a friend. I will be flipping them in a month or so. Maybe a photo.
Like I mentioned, the rifle builders know I have the log. I didn't buy the cut log with mottled figure. It is just beyond belief. So is the price. The guy that had the logs is a riflebuilder and insisted they go to the guys that come to some of the conventions. He was offered some incredible money by a couple veneer selectors. Fortunately he didn't give in to the big bucks.
Found out about the logs by word of mouth. Just Luck.
Shaping the legs. Don't hesitate to use a rasp/file once you get close. Some guys make you feel like you should be able to go all the way with drawknives, spokeshaves and a scraper. You can get mighty close that way but I think its unnecessarily risky - my view. In my case, having built so many rifles with wild figured maple, I grab the surform and an old farriers rasp(big teeth) and hog the wood pretty darn fast. It works for me and I don't get as many torn out chunks.
Just a technique really.
dan
Bob;
I just thought I'd share this photo of a towel bar rod that I made, with the draw knives and on the shaving horse yesterday. It had some wandering grain but I just split it away until my blank pretty much followed the grain.
Very quick shearing cuts (as you call them) then smoothed it to the point that I never touched this piece with sandpaper. The speed of the cut is sometimes important to get the smoothest slices. That's why those old fixed knife planers from a few years back worked... they shoved the wood past that blade in a big hurry! So after the rough shaping here I used very light and very fast shaving cuts to clean up the surfaces (no spokeshaves either). I did have just a few small tear-out divots and I used a double-edged hook knife to clean them up. I actually went a bit overboard on the smoothing here as I like the way that some roughness interacts with the finish.
If you notice, I allowed the shape to vary a bit allowing some interaction between the shape and the grain patterns in the blank. I could've overridden these natural tendencies but I preferred not to. I like to swim with the current (or grain) and allow the wood and my tools to have a little part in the final designs. I prefer that look and when the parts are meant for my own use I can work in that efficient and satisfying manner.
I have yet to make the mounting brackets for this bar and it is unfinished in this pic. The wood is pecan, which is of the hickory family and very hard and strong.
Thanks big,
The speed of the cut is sometimes important to get the smoothest slices.
That's an interesting observation. I have been wrestling with how to interpret that (re)action to working the knife with wood. It seemed to me that there were times (grain influenced I thought) where slower cuts seemed to induce digging into the wood leading to stalled cuts for lack of a better description often accompanied with tearout. Reading the grain wrong?
I think I was trying to steer the cut and the grain had other ideas. Approaching the cuts from the opposite direction and working with light, as I call them shearing cuts, smoothed everything out. Luckily I hadn't cut too deeply to adversely affect the final shape.
I'm probably overthinking this as a result of my inexperience. Perhaps I need to really put some priority into getting a good working spokeshave in order instead of trying to use the drawknife as the finessing tool. At this juncture I'm going from the knife to the cardscraper which is working but doesn't eliminate sandpaper, not that that is my goal.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
It sounds like you're encountering reversing grain. The best way, I find, is to cut one way up to that difficult point, then work from the other end to that same point. Skewing the blade and taking a very fine cut also helps.
Today, the first priority was to make a replacement handle for a friend's hammer. I chose a piece of straight-grained dogwood and sketched the rough shape of the handle. Not wanting to spend all day, I roughed out the handle on the bandsaw and settled down at the bench with the blank in the vise and my spokeshave. I don't have a drawknife. The mouth of the spokeshave limited the thickness of shaving I could take and therefore slowed my progress. It did, however, produce a super smooth surface. Once the handle felt comfortable, I stopped. No scraping. No sanding. I elected to leave the facets on the handle for a couple reasons. One: less work for me. Two: it feels nicer and screams hand craftsmanship. A drawknife is now on my list of things to acquire.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
It sounds like you're encountering reversing grain.
Yup, exacury what was happening and did as you suggested. 'Cause it's on a cabriole leg it'll get sanded. Go a hankerin for them Veritas spokeshaves based on some comments from Lataxe in another thread.
Ya know, shaping wood with handtools gets into a lot of not so obvious larnin about the properties of wood that isn't always apparent when working with power tools. There's a lot to be said for that hand made touch and look.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"shaping wood with handtools gets into a lot of not so obvious larnin about the properties of wood that isn't always apparent when working with power tools."
Simply said, well put. I've got the standard Veritas shave. I bought it as a general purpose tool, but through experience, I see the need for the round sole (convex) shave as well.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Me again,
Here is the tool I use to sharpen my drawknives. It is loaded with a worn 120 grit belt that seems to work very well. I removed the table to allow better access.
View Image
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I think you'd really benefit from a shave horse. I'm not sure you'd want to hold a semi completed crooked leg in one. But the sort os support a shave horse offers, provides you with the opportunity to experiment with more aggressive cuts, pulling pushing, skewing, slicing.I think a drawknife really is one of those tools that you can't explain how to use. You just need to learn it by doing. The motions are almost too complex. You're reading the wood and getting feedback from the knife and changing and moving. Its a little like turning in that the process is so much fun, you could use a draw knife for an hour, make nothing, and be happy.As to shave horses, I've used a few and I've not been impressed with the construction lumber versions. You pull with your arms, push with your legs and react all that with your seat. A rough hewn bench seems best. I also like a long gently sloped table. I think a long workpiece should point mid way between your navel and rib cage. Roy Underhill has an excellent description of how to build a horse from a 5 or 6' oak log in one of his books. I built one several years ago from that book and its great. It works great and was fun to build. Building one is like a taking a woodworking class too. You'll learn a lot in just a couple days.Adam
Adam,
Thanks for the inputs.
You're right about it being fun to use one. First time I tried was shaping some offcuts from the legs I'm making. Had to stop myself cause the piece was beginning to disappear! Biggest problem was holding the damn pieces whilst I drew the knife. Did anyone mention shave horse!?
Yeah, that's definitely on the list, very near the top. I've looked at several designs and heft seems to be a comoon denominator but not such that it's difficult to move. Maybe I should make two then moving is a moot point!
I'll let you know what I come up with. Sounds like this weekend will be a good time for it; weather is supposed to be warmer.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob have shaved few legs in my days but all the girls got goosebumps!
Will,
Did ya use a concave spokeshave, drawknife or a plane? I learned that they don't like scrub planes at all!
Did they git the goosebumps from the leafblower by chance?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Do you talk to yourself in the shop too? Most of the staff at my workplace (day job) either talk, whistle, or sing to themselves. I'm no exception.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
Do you talk to yourself in the shop too?
All the time but noone listens! :>) Haven't you ever said to yourself, "Now what in hell were you thinking?"
What's really bad is when I lose an argument with myself............
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Remember the old Brother Dave Gardner skit?
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
It's me!
Come on in, myself.
Sometimes talking to one's self is the only way one can have an intelligent conversation.
Ray
Ray,
So, what's your take on this drawknife expedition? I suppose if I were a bit more careful when bandsawing the rough shape that one could get right to it with a shave and save some time.
I keep thinking about E. Langdon saying he does his legs in about 20 mins. Course he has made several more than I!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
I have a small spokeshave similar to yours. Mine came from Woodcraft, I believe. It is supposedly German. I like the shape and size, but wish it were a little harder, as it is easy to roll the edge, if you get too horsey with it.
I think I sent you a pic of the clamp blocks I use to hold QA legs. It is really quite handy, and eliminates a lot of the contortions that you go thru working a leg just clamped in the bench vice.
Working a chair leg will take me about 20-30 mins, after I have worked out the first one, if it is a new (to me) pattern. It goes quickly, after you have worked out the first 3 or 4 if you are building a set of 8 chairs for instance. You learn where, and what to hog off, instead of creeping up on it.
After sawing, I like to fair the curves using a spokeshave, leaving the blank in the square. Just shave off the humps and bumps. Then I use the drawknife to knock down the corners, starting with the front diagonal of the leg; then the back, finally the left and right. I basically work a tapering chamfer with the drawknife, then round over and blend it into the flats. Of course, some patterns are left almost square (Newport highboys) some are almost all rounded. There is even a form of Phila chair leg that is chamfered on its corners, and left that way. So the first leg you work out, it helps to have some idea of what you want to end up with!
After drawknifing, I then spokeshave the drawknife's facets away, then scrape with a card scraper. It is sometimes helpful to rasp certain areas, like the turn of the ankle, to get a fair curve. But a really sharp drawknife, with a strong bevel on one side, can do a pretty good job in the area of the top of the toe. If you are catty, you can get by without rasping, which takes a good deal of cleaning up--enough that it can affect the end result of the shape you thought you were going for (ending up with a smaller dia ankle for instance, or having to blend farther up the leg ).
I don't usually worry too much with the area under or in back of, the knee, til after assembly, and the kneeblocks and apron are in place. Then I carve, scrape, sand this area into a fair curve with the rest of the leg.
Ray
Ray,
I think I sent you a pic of the clamp blocks I use to hold QA legs.
Sorry but I don't recall seeing it; but you know, the memory is the second thing that goes. :>) Would like to see the clamp blocks. The bench is ok for now but the shave horse should be a lot better. Just have to make it Paddy capable!
You're planting already!? Hell our garden is still under 3 ft. of snow and it's supposed to snow starting tonight and into tomorrow. This is getting out of control! Hope they don't see the floods again in the southern part of the state like in recent years.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
You ought to think about moving to tropical VA. Some folks plant peas in Feb around here. Rain today, and again Fri, I begin to doubt that I will be planting taters then.
Will try and attach a pic of the leg clamp blocks. A pair of oak, 2x4's, about 16" long, connected by a butt hinge at the end that is in the vise. The top end has a pair of vee notches cut opposing one another, to capture the square at the end of the leg being worked, holding it corner upmost. Clamp across top holds all in place. Make the vee's so as to accomodate a square 1 1/2" or so, it will open up to allow insertion of squares of 2 -2 1/4"
Ray
Ray,
You ought to think about moving to tropical VA
Believe me, that thought has crossed my mind more than once. We bought our house back in '95 for $45,000 with 5½ acres of land. We've been remodeling it ever since and have done most of the work ourselves. Right now it's valued at $135,000 by the town but the RE market is the pits right now but it will come back in a few years, we hope. Then you will have to worry 'cause there's a good chance another Damn Yankee may be movin south!
That QA scuttle leg holder looks right nice ya got there. Do ya turn yur feet after shapin the leg? I see ya got two places to hold legs. For doin two at a time?
Thanks man,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Bob,
Know the difference between a dam' Yankee, and a Carpetbagger?
Dam' Yankees are like hemorrhoids- they come down, but go back up. Carpetbaggers come down, and stay down.
The leg in the photo did not get a turned foot (actually, it is an extra, from an old gate leg table project), but a "slipper" shaped one. If I'm doing turned feet, they get turned while the leg is still square- before sawing to shape. Va Craftsmen turned the ankles on some of their legs as well, by moving the lathe centers off-center of the blank. You need a stout lathe to do that, as the blank shudders considerably when turning. While I've turned numerous "Dutch" turned legs, it seems of little use to me, to turn the ankle of a full-blown Queen Anne leg. It's gotta be blended into the hand-shaped portion of the leg anyway.
The other pair of notches was a brainstorm I had, for holding a leg at a slope, for carving ball and claw feet. Didn't turn out to be of much use.
Ray
Ray,
"slipper" shaped one
Ah, that's what I'm putting on the Queen I'm makin or at least that's what I call 'em. They're kinda egg shaped with the large part close to the leg vs the toe. The back of the foot, where it comes down to form the heel, is shaped much like the heel on a cowboy boot. Am I makin a moungrel Queen!?
Did ya happen to see my discussion about the Unusual secretarie? If you get a chance I'd be interested in your thoughts on it over there.
As to the Dam' Yankee vs Carpetbagger thang, I'm a bit perplexed. I spose I wouldn't want to be either one. I'vce had my fill of hemorrhoids and have a disdain for Carpetbaggers the whole lazy lot of 'em. Of course it could be worse as one could be a politician, but I'm too honest for that and I'd care for my constituents. :>)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob:You are younger, leaner, and longer than I thought. Almost as rangy as me, and a lot more hair. I've given up most ingestibles, too, except for a bit of social booze now and again. Do talk to myself all the time. Kind of a shame I can't find better company, but there it is.I need to make a shave horse, too. Have been sort of hoarding plans and articles, and may get to it an a few months after the "other" projects get done (the most current of which is three months behind).Have been using draw knives for a long time and really like them. Have a range of sizes. None of my work is as sophisticated as those legs you are doing with yours, but I'll get there. Had the good luck to get an old HD Smith Perfect Handle draw knife a few months ago. The balance on that thing is wonderful.Joe
Joe,
http://roseantiquetools.com/store/product2094.html
Man, those babies ain't cheap! I'm curious to know what is their claim to fame so to speak.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Goodness, I had no idea how much they cost at retail -- and didn't mean to boast. Mine did NOT come from an antique store, but from a guy who was closing down a woodworking business and selling his tools. The price was rather different.
The claim to fame is that HD SMith invented the "perfect handle," and later went out of business (IIRC). The perfect handle is a nice design, found in screwdrivers, mechanics tools, and a few woodworking tools like that drawknife. When the patent went out, several other makers produced them. The screwdrivers in particular are popular because they are strong, feel good, and when referned or rescaled, are very handsome. I pick them up when I find them, but NEVER at prices like that.
Bottom line, they are nice, well-designed tools, but he collector market seems to have driven the prices up to the silly point or beyond.
Happy Easter!
J
Joe,
I just Googled HD Smith perfect handle and grabbed the first hit. Right on about collectors but they have to make a living too I suppose.
Glad you mentioned the HD tools. My uncle inherited all my grandfathers woodworking tools and he had a slew of the screwdrivers but no knives. They're very comfortable to use. Unc lets me use 'em once in a while when I visit his woodshop.
I'll have ta keep an eye out for a knife or three!
Thankg again,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/21/2008 12:18 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob:
Actually, keep an eye out for the perfect handle wrenches, too. They are also very strong and quite comfortable -- HD Smith or otherwise. Usually with all these tools you find that the wooden scales are bunged up pretty badly -- but every now and then you luck out. I have a cigar box with a lot of bunged up PH screwdrivers by various makers. Someday I'll re-scale them with Osage Orange or Walnut -- or that's what I tell myself, anyway.
Joe
Bob; My favorite drawknife is a straight Worth of about ten inches and it is really much nicer than any of my others. The heft and consequent momentum and the length of the blade are important but it also seems to have an optimally beveled blade which cuts more efficiently and smoother than my other knives. I believe that it has a bit more acute angle of bevel than my other knives.With this knife I can both rough off large splittings and shave very thin shavings similar to a finely tuned smoothing plane.
I guess now I have to see about rebeveling all my other drawknives. I still think the Worth will outwork them though... it just seems to be an excellently made tool.
I see that numerous used drawknives of various brands are selling on e-bay so you might keep an eye on that for a possible bargain.
Bevel angle is probably the most important aspect of a drawknife -- presuming you have a flat blade and the handles are comfortable. I had noticed over time that some knives were just too aggressive and had to be used with great care -- trouble really, while others just did their work. Then my father loaned me a book ( a few years ago, still on "loan") called Country Woodcraft. Published in 1978 by Rodale, it was written by a guy named Drew Langsner who lived in a cabin, and who studied folk woodworking quite intensively. He found the following about his own assortment of knives:
"...a few drawknives...refuse to work properly -- even after a good sharpening. Two drawknives hardly penetrate the wood, and another cuts in too deep and too fast. The problem is simple and I do not understand why manufacturers produce tools that cannot be used. Efficiency is related primarily to the cutting bevel; weight and subtle variations in shape are secondary considerations.
"After measuring the bevels of various drawknives I found that the ones I user were ground at approximately 33 degrees. Two drawknives with a 40 degree bevelk are just about unusable. another, ground to 22, digs into the wood with no control at all."
I myself find that he is more or less right, depending on the wood and the size on the knife. For example, I have a little drawknife about 4 or 5 inches wide that has a low 20 something bevel and does very well for me with a razor sharp edge and a light touch. It is at its best on very hard wood.
Probably, each person's technique will make for a somewhat different ideal angle for him or her. However, the more obtuse angels are best for the most basic stuff like skinning logs and poles.
Cheers!
Joe
Edited 3/21/2008 3:02 pm ET by Joe Sullivan
Thanks Joe! Drew Langsner is a familiar name. I have one little short light carvers drawknife that is excellent steel but just seems too flexible and weak to do much heavy work. My 6" convex german knife is too obtuse at the edge and I think I'll try to rebevel it. The Worth is worthy though!
All my drawknives seem to be only medium hard steel... I can touch up the bevels on them with a file (followed by stoning). That seems okay though my carving axes (which I LOVE) are quite hard and require the belt sander to do any coarse work on the edges. The drawknives seem to work well with the softer temper though.
Good luck! Fun stuff, isn't it? I really enjoy the "folk" tools, as well as handtools in general. There is somethng essential about using froes drawknives and scrapers.
Joe
Bob,
A slipper foot is not at all a mongrel. They were found on many pieces of the period, tho not as popular as the round ones. Maybe of Irish origin, as there seems to be a precedent there, and some association with them and immigrant makers to this country.
I've seen a few of the cylinder top pieces, but don't recall ever having to work on one. They seem to have been more common in the early industrial age- Eastlake style, with their interest in gizmosity, but there are a few Federal -era examples.
Dam Yankee, or carpetbagger, just a reflection of the South's viewing of any further invasions from the North with a degree of suspicion, after the way that big previous one worked out for us!
Save your Dixie cups, the South's gonna rise again!
Ray
Bob,
Not so much "Now what in hell were you thinking?", but more "Where am I? What was I doing?".Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I just built the #1 accessory for the draw knife, and it really is great. That is a shaving horse. You should try it.
Tom
Tom,
I'm all over it. Hope to cut the pieces this week.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
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