Forty years after leaving my first homemade workbench in Europe to emigrate to America to work on Apollo I’ve just finished its replacement. There’s an article in FWW 182 on drilling the benchtop for round dogs. My ash benchtop is 3″ thick. What are the advantages and disadvantages of round and square dogs? Incidentally I have four German Shepherds who are all happy now that our (Australian)winter has arrived and their fur is at last useful(tonight will be 27 deg F).
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Replies
Hermes,
The only real advantage is that Holdfasts are round and fit the dog holes...so maybe a few less holes in the top?
BTW, how big was your suitcase that it took you forty years to notice you had forgotten your workbench?.....lol
Edited 5/8/2006 7:20 am ET by BG
Thanks BG, very useful info.
I got absorbed in my lovely family and so forgot my toys, now I want to make toys for the grandchildren and play again myself. Anyone got some playful toy designs to share?
I have the plans for a 7 car wooden train set available. I can e-mail them to you if you wish as I scanned them into my computer. Each car is 10-1/4 " long. Ralph
Hi Ralph,
I would really appreciate those plans. My problem is that my fax is only on when I am at work, and I'm just going for three weeks to a conference(no it's not a woodworking conference), returning 29th May. How can I contact you when I'm back?
Hermes I can send it to you via e-mail as an attachment if you wish as I have already scanned it into my computer. Or you can e-mail me if you wish it faxed to you when you return from your trip. My e-mail address is [email protected] . Or I can mail a copy to you. My mailing address is Ralph Alberti 19 North Sandyside Lane Yarmouth Port, Massachusetts 02675-1750 USA. My phone number is (508)362-7972. My fax number is (508)375-9298. Good wishes Ralph
I got your e-mail and attempted to send the plans to you but they bounced back. It stated as the error that I can not send a message to an e-mail address that has a space in it. Between your first name and the initial of your last name what is that, a space, a underscore like this _ , a dash like this - , what?
Not a train nut BUT.. When I was a child my brother and I would play in the attic with a REAL STEAM locomotive with all kinds of cars. Alcohol and kids with matches and in a old wooden frame house! Can you imagine OSHA walkin' in and givin' grandpa a 'hard time'!Anyway, it also had a steam generator for the lights around the track.It was BIG, (As I remember mostly brass) but then again we was little! As I remember also, to make it whistle you had to run around with the locomotive and open a little lever and then shut it..GOD life was GOOD then!I have no idea what happened to it.. If I could sell THAT on E-BAY! I'd be able to afford myself.
I have round dogs (Veritas). The only reason I chose these was that they are easier to install and easy to add another location later if desired. However, this weekend, I was planing a piece that was an odd, curved shape (a mahogany boat transom). Using the round dogs allowed me to easily turn the flat face of the dog to better fit the curves of the piece, and I thought at the time "Hmm. Couldn't do that with square dogs."
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Thanks Mike. Your explanation helps me to imagine how I might use a workbench that for projects which are in my mind.
I think the round dogs are plenty for all but the most heavy industrial work. If you didn't cut the mortices for them when building the bench, it will be quite a job afterwards. My bench looks like Swiss cheese, I have dog holes everywhere and all kinds of shop made auxillary devices that either fit into the round holes or drop over the round dogs. Very easy to place them wherever you want one and they don't cut your knuckles and knees as bad as square ones. They are also more handy when clamping odd shapes since they can be twisted in any direction. Less expensive, too.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hi Hammer,
Thanks for the insights. Incidentally I bought the timber for the workbench frame from a local timber supplier called Thor's Hammer. It worked out real well and looks great after I filled all the nail holes with epoxy. Only one hidden nail in the reclaimed timber. I love the Swiss cheese metaphor not just because of the epoxy filled holes, but as I am Swiss myself, and in winter (now)we eat a lot of that stuff in fondue and raclette, we also laugh a lot too, because we drink schnapps(Kirsch) to digest the stuff.
Round ones can angle to hold odd shapes as well as use hold downs.
square ones have a one of 4 directions they can face.
Round ones are easier to make
Hi Rick,
Your answer says it all, thanks very much.
Hermes,
So where are you living?
I have just been hanging about in a shop outside Canberra with 4 really good benches of mixed variety with the same question in mind.
It seems that you are past the decisionpoint because all of the benches that i have seen with square dogs had the holes cut in before the top was laminated. (you could do it now but it would be a lot of work)
On the other hand, I worry a bit about the veritas dogs marking the tools when I make a mistake. They are a bit pricey in Aust.
Dave
Hi Patto, You're right if I go for square dogs it'll be a lot of work to cut the holes. The Veritas dogs are what I have in mind, I still have the Record 52 1/2 used vice from 40 years ago, it followed me all around the globe with the hope of finally getting mounted again(straight face). I live in Wamboin. Where are you? It strikes me that the Royal dogs are round(Corgis), maybe something true or veritas about them, or will it all be Chucked away?
Hermes,
Not far from you, moved into the burbs a year ago from Murrumbateman. Still keep a couple of horses at a mates place on Wallaroo Rd just ouside hall.
He's the arms and legs with the chain saw in a couple of pictures in the book Richard Raffan put out last year. He is an excellent source for exotics if you are prepared to wait a bit - carts and mills street trees and they are all air dried. Fair amount of decent slabs and has the machienery to mill pretty much anything you want.
Dave
Hi Dave,
Sounds very interesting. My next door neighbour here has a tree surgery business, so I can get lots of interesting timber to cut up on my bandsaw from him. How can I contact you?
Thanks for gettin' us to the Moon.....Saturn V was one hell of a machine. Too bad Congress cut off the flow of $$$$ Jimmy
My contribution was green tape and sweeping up at Bell Aerospace in Wheatfield.
Hello Hermes, and all.
First visit, first post, alas first question.
Are dog holes through holes? And if so, what tips and tricks are incorporated for shop made dogs to keep them from falling through?
My bench is akin to Swiss cheese as well. But from screw holes anchoring scraps as stops and hold downs and such.
Thank you,
The Yankee WoodCrafter
Woodcrafter,
Yes, dog holes are usually thorugh holes.
If you make the holes 3/4"...buy or make 3/4" dowel, take a chunk of wood(2"x2") and drill a 3/4" hole with a forstner bit and glue dowel into hole. You can make the 2x2 any shape or thickness for planing thick or thin stock.
As BG says, you can make the top of the dog larger than the hole, that will of course prevent fall-through. You can also have spring action, either wooden or metal, that you press in to adjust the dog's height and release to lock in place. These are good if you want your dog to ride a bit below the height to which you are planing, so you don't catch the dog with your plane blade.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Hi John. How do you make the spring action?
Thanks to all for the help.
I saw somewhere that somebody used something...Oh yes, How about rubber cruch tips? or simpler yet rubber bands bound about the top. Maybe even those hair bungie thingies girls use. Wine corks? All right I seem to be on a roll here and need to stop before I go right off the edge.
WoodCrafter
Improvise. :) Cut and wedge (prone to later splitting), or attach a strip. For a metal spring, use screws. For square dogs you can push a wedge in, that'll lock it in nicely. Guess you could apply the same principle for round dogs too, leave a flat side and wedge in.
By the way, a planing stop on the end of the bench is easier to use than a dog IMHO. Since it's wood there's no chance of putting a serious ding into your blade like a steel dog would do.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
Drill 3/4" through holes. Go to Lee Valley tools. Buy some Bench Dogs (r) or Bench Puppies (r). They are brass so they won't kill your blades if (er, when) you nip 'em accidently, and they have square faces. They have springs so they stay put.
Lee Valley also has a nice adjustable holdfast that has a screw on the top to allow you to apply variable pressure on the workpiece, and a dog with a screw going through it horizontally that you can use to apply pressure like and end vice would. (I use one of these since my bench doesn't have an end vice -- it's up against a corner so there's no room for one.)
Or, make 'em outa wood. I've seen square wooden dogs with wooden leaf springs to keep them where you want them, but not round ones. For round one's, I'd just use a 3/4" dowel with a square (or other custom shape) block on the top to rest on the bench.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
27 deg F! Gee.. You should try a Chicago winter!
All the benches I have made use a round hole for the pin. However, I find that a cylinder tends to dent the wood easier than a square surface. So, me being me, has a collection of dogs with round and square heads. In fact, I have some rectangular head dogs that have two round pins that span a set of 'holes'.
I have nothing against square dogs but drilling holes was easier and faster. Just me...
EDIT: to work on Apollo ! DANG! I bet that was wonderful work!
Edited 5/9/2006 7:10 pm by WillGeorge
Hi Will,
The bench dog ideas sound great, I've made a simple mockup for a test. I know what you mean about cold, I was in Halstead winter 83/84. Many folks took the one-way trip to the Lodge in the Sky because of the cold. Confess I ran back to Oregon that Spring and have never returned, then went to Asia to warm up, and stayed here. (Australians avoid the reality that this is South Asia, for example I am having durian for dessert after roast lamb tonight.) I brought back some strips of spalted Oregon Myrtle with me, today I finally used a piece to make a small box. I've sanded it up to 600 grit and it has real depth. What finish would you recommend?
I am having durian for dessert ?? I thought it would be VEGEMITE?!! WITH RED WINE!What the heck is durian? I thought it was that slippery plastic!
Hi there Will,
Durian is a large fruit, very prickly on the outside, with a very sweet and pungent inside. It takes courage to eat one for the first time. If you can enjoy Stilton or Gorgonzola cheese you should have what it takes to enjoy durian. Some say that durian is the only fruit that a tiger will eat. I have vegemite for breakfast either with homemade pure rye sourdough bread or with whole oatmeal porridge. After all the useful discussion I'm going to go for round dogs.
Yes working on Apollo lunar landing simulations was great, mostly because of the scientists I had the opportunity to meet. I was at Bell Aerospace in Wheatfield near Niagara Falls. Those were cold winters, I was young and the snuggling with my wife was great. Got three great kids and grandkids as a result.
Bell Aerospace !LONG, LONG, ago I had a Electrical Engineer working for me.. He just came to the USA from someplace.. He was just the greatest... (Forgive me but I do not remember his name) Long one for sure!Anyway, we programmed in machine language or basic or Forth? then.. I forget.. He was something for just putting up up with us.. About every week we would tell him 'this code will not fit' You need to compress it a bit!.. He would just smile and go back to work.. In a few days, he had it compressed! LOL...Finally, when we asked him AGAIN, He smiled at us and said "I just got a GOOD JOB at Bell Labs".. We all went to the BIG BOSS and asked if we could signature the recommendations from our company to Bell Labs.. DAMN he was good! Sure wish he spoke English!
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