I have a new (20 some years old) Disston T-1, 26, 8 point xcut. Never cared too much for it as it was always rough starting and overall hard to saw with – either on junk soft wet or good dry hardwoods. The teeth are all ok and still “factory” sharpened. As I said, I never used it much. I have decided to do a re sharpen as I’m thinking that poor default factory sharpness is the major problem. Maybe not. Or too wide a set? Thoughts?
2nd question is would stoning help? i.e. A small attempt at taper grinding?
Boiler
Replies
Hi Boiler
I have a new (20 some years old) Disston T-1, 26, 8 point xcut. Never cared too much for it as it was always rough starting and overall hard to saw with - either on junk soft wet or good dry hardwoods. The teeth are all ok and still "factory" sharpened. As I said, I never used it much. I have decided to do a re sharpen as I'm thinking that poor default factory sharpness is the major problem. Maybe not. Or too wide a set? Thoughts?
2nd question is would stoning help? i.e. A small attempt at taper grinding?
If the saw will be used for wetter or softer woods, you can probably make it a finer cutting saw simply by increasing the fleam angle. Using layout fluid helps here, but running the saw through a few full-length cuts will place a powdery residue on the teeth. Point being, you can use that residue like layout fluid--to see the effect of changing the fleam (and or rake). The file should take more material off the trailing edge before the cutting edge of the tooth when increasing fleam. Done reasonably consistent, the teeth will slice more readily through a board. A light jointing (lightly running a flat file along the tooth tips to produce a small flat) is also a good idea.
For a saw to be used in drier or harder woods, you can hammer* some of the set out prior to reshaping of the teeth. But first check either by calipers or by eye to make sure there really is too much set.
I would then joint the saw and increase both the rake and fleam. Again, layout fluid or saw dust residue will aid in seeing how much you are increasing these variables from tooth to tooth. Reasonably consistent change is what you are after. Once the reshaping is done (increase in both rake and fleam), check the set and even it up and lightly run a couple strokes of the file on each tooth again.
Take care, Mike
*I use a 2 lb. brass hammer. I use a good size of Jatoba (about 2.5" x 10" that is about 2' long) and place the saw against the end-grain. I then give a few light taps as I move the saw across the end of the Jatoba piece, hitting all the teeth a few light raps as the saw is moved across the Jatoba.
Mike,I knew you would come through. Always good info. I would like to use it on hards so I think I'll go for your brass and tap followed by a touch up. You going to be in the shop midweek? Have to go up to Gilmer and Crosscut for some consolidated sawdust so as long as I was close..Thanks again.John
Hi John--you are welcome.
I should be in the shop all week. I just got back last night from a quicky trip up north and do not expect to go back up until the weekend. My father is ill, so it is somewhat iffy.
Gilmers. I escaped from there last week for less than I thought I would. Only to be more than made up by my trip to Alaskan Cooper and Brass...
The address is on the web site for Googling a map. Phone number is there also, but I cannot always hear the phone.
Take care, Mike
Mike,I put the loop on the saw and was surprised. Almost no fleam edge whatsoever. If the tooth were 10 inches high, the actual point that was filed was the last inch and even then it was filed up to the point, parallel to the blade surface, and somewhat rounded rather than two cutting edges coming to an apex and running fore or aft. Almost looked stamped. And this was factory. Was this series their last hurrah in hand saws? So when you say increase the fleam angle are we talking headed past 15 toward 25 degrees or past that? Anything at this point (no pun) will obviously help considering the sorry state it's in. Honestly, I'm the only owner and never abused it (other than verbally) and probably not used it more than 12 times in 20+ years. It is in essence how Disston manufactured it. Hmph!I'll be up mid week- Wed -Thurs and if I catch you it will be great but since I'm close there is always another time.John
Hi John,
When I go for durability, I shoot for about 15 degrees fleam (20 deg. rake). Swifter, cleaner cutting at about 25/25. Most my personal CC hand saws in the 8/9 ppi and lower are at the 15/20 deg. range. 9/10 ppi and above, the 25/25.
Many cross cut hand saws made from the 1980s up should have been called semi-cross cut...not to mention semi-sharpened.
Looking forward to meeting you. Hope you aren't looking for an ISO 9002 shop <g>.
Take care, Mike
Mike,I think I'm going to take these little Mike gems and print them up for my shop wall.
As to the shop - I've been in HP assembly clean rooms and 200 year old below ground, stone and moss walled print shops in Pittsburgh where the three rivers were seeping in. The print shops were a lot more fun.
Hwy 26 off of 217 from 5 the easiest?Thankx for all the saw info.John
Yep, 217 to hwy 26 and heading west.
Once on 26:
Easiest way is to take the Forest Grove exit at North Plains. You'll be on Glencoe Road. Turn left off the off-ramp.Once past the highway interchange, turn right at the first light you come to, which is NW Zion Church Rd. After a while, it turns into NW Cornelius-Schefflin Rd. You will come into a turn-about. Go around it and head to Cornelius.The road name will be the same after the turn-about, but will change to 10th Avenue as you get closer to town. A mile or so and you will come to a set of railroad tracks. As soon as you see them, turn Left into the building complex. We are about the third door down in the first building you come to, left side.
Here's a Google map link.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1154+n.+fremont+lane,+97113
The actual complex will be on the right on the screen. Changing to satellite view, one can see my white van parked beside our entry door (and the loading dock to its right).
Take care, Mike
What Mike said is all just right !
I would humbly add: worth looking at your saw with magnification, jeweler's loop or my favorite a magnification visor, to see what is going on. Maybe you have already. You may have some microscopically jaggedy teeth that got dinged up before you got the saw or what not.
I made up a long frame saw for resawing, yah I was OPTIMISTIC, and I used a section of wide course bandsaw blade which I drilled and pinned to the frame.
It cut like your saw does. Grab grab grab. I payed attention to the fine details of the geometry of the teeth and it improved it's manners a whole bunch. Of coarse my blade is rip but the point is the teeth must be correct and configured for the wood/application to cut well as a handsaw.
Yes that white cabinet needs some serious door alignment. It is just as it was when I rescued it from my Dad's old lawn mower shed just as the roof was giving out so it should count it's self lucky.
The saw frame is purpleheart. Not for looks but for strength. I bought all the purpleheart to make tools from etc. cause it was stable, super strong and cheep !
Turns out the block on the end of the saw opposite to the handle was so heavy it caused problems in saw balance even after fixing the blade tooth geometry. I had to make an end block out of lighter stuff.
Not trying to steel the show but I been wanting to post some picks of this saw for general interest. Sorry for poor photos there is a lightening storm going on here off and on so I snuck them in in between boomers.
No I don't recommend making one of these unless you put a handle on both ends and always saw with a partner. Just buy a bandsaw other wise.
The point is Mike's info made this blade cut right.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 5/24/2009 4:53 pm by roc
Edited 5/26/2009 1:15 am by roc
Edited 5/26/2009 1:25 am by roc
Roc,"I would humbly add: worth looking at your saw with magnification, jeweler's loop or my favorite a magnification visor, to see what is going on"Did. Major surprise. see my last to MikeBoiler
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