Just got done watching an umpteenth episode of DIY networks show Woodworks. It is hosted by David Marks.
I’ve notice that he always wears long sleeve shirts. I thought that was taboo to do around all those spinning blades and cutters. So my guess is that his arms are either covered in tatoos or scars.
Anybody actually meet David Marks that could fill us all in?
Thanks!
Replies
And the answer to this question, other than satisfying your morbid curiosity, has what relevance to woodworking?
I guess the question proves why some of the DIY or HGTV program hosts appear to be paid models rather than expert craftspersons.
To answer the question, David has a tatoo that reads "Metal Rules" and the producers felt that exposing such a tatoo would send conflicting message to the woodworking community.
You can always go to his website and send him an email if you really wanted the truth. I hope you get the answer you're looking for
p.s. please note I have a scar on my left thigh. It is not woodworking related but I think it has made me a better woodworker, just in case you are obtaining data to correlate scars and craftsmanship.
AND ... why does he put on his protective glasses, but not his ear protection ... and take off his table saw protection, and not use a riving knife!
Talk about sending the wrong messages!
MalcolmNew Zealand | New Thinking
Kiwimac,
I'm not 100% sure but I think the reason the safety equipment is off of the saw is because it would get in the way of the cameras. A year or so back I think they had something on that subject on that tools and technique show they have, and that was the reason they gave so they could show more details and camera angles.
John
It may be that the guards are off to show the action - but he uses a cross-cut sled (and that's a whole 'nother topic - why doesn't he use something a bit more upmarket!?) and you can't use guards and a sled.
You could use a riving knife, however, which provides a significant safety benefit, without compromising the shot or the action. Which suggests to me what we see is what he does normally.
Regardless of why, there's a lot of people who know they should use safety gear and don't. Every time one of the stars leaves the ear protection, or the guard, hanging on the wall, it adds to our collective risk of injury.
Is that responsible, or not?
MalcolmNew Zealand | New Thinking
Sorry to nit-pick, but a small comment to "you can't use guards and a sled" - that's not completely true - check out Kelly Mehler's The Table Saw Book - he's incorporated a home-made guard into his cross-cut sled. It's essentially nothing more than saw kerfs on the front and back supports of the sled and a drop-in plastic blade guard.
Edited 4/12/2005 11:44 am ET by Tim F.
I haven't seen it for quite a while, but New Yankee Workshop used to show a graphic that said something about the TS blade guard being removed for clarity.
I see the point, if David is being marketed as a master craftsman to be emulated, it may be irresponsible for him to work around high powered cutting machinery in long sleeves, because a newbie might miss the inherent danger.
I don't work in long sleeves anymore, but I live in Florida. But, I worked in saw mills (Idaho), where chains/gears grabbed gloves, sleeves, etc... so I would caution anyone who wears long sleeves to wear only tight fitting sleeves like David usually does and to never put you hands/arms in the 3 or 4 inches in front of or over a blade.
Speaking of the models on DIY, there is usually a subject matter expert assisting the token.
Regards,
Ken
"Do as you would be done by." C.S. Lewis
Tom:You seem to imply that questions about one of the most popular TV woodworking personalities, and about proper attire when working with power tools, are not appropriate for this forum. Could you explain why not?
" ....p.s. please note I have a scar on my left thigh. "Is that why you always wear long pants in the shop? (grin)-sorry, couldn't resist it-...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Ahhh! I was wondering what his tatoo said. I saw it on one of his web site, but I could not make out what it said. I think there is nothing wrong with being a metal head and a woodworker, I rock out in my shop all the time. I it's a lot safer than watching TV and woodworking.
Heck, given Marks' affection for metalwork and patination, maybe "Metal Rules" doesn't even refer to music, and the producers' hesitance is because the show is "Wood Works," not "Metal Works." (tongue firmly in cheek)
Seriously, I'd be surprised if he lost viewers if he let his personality show. I watch because he does excellent, interesting work, and because I believe it will help me improve my own work.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
I've watched this guy's show a few times and something about him gives me the creeps.
Find somebody else to look up to. Books are better than T.V. shows.
Yeah, me too!! Anybody who is that much better than me just plain gives me the creeps. You know, my self esteem might suffer! And heavens, to think he might have a tatoo! Too much! And the poor safety example, good gracious! I might get the idea that life is fatal! Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934, Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT
I'm not sure why David would give you the creeps. I've met him and talked with him face to face a couple of times and he is a really nice guy. Just a regular dude like you and I, with the exception that to say he is a craftsman is an understatement in the extreme. One nice thing about David is that he is willing to share what he knows readily, without putting on an air of superiority, to help someone else do better, more creative work.
As far as safety practices go, DIY "Woodworking" (I believe that is the name of the show)scares me to death. When I still watched it, I saw things (like almost letting a router go flying across the table because of starting the cut in the wrong direction) on that show that sent chills up my spine nearly every time I saw it. David might do some things that spook the self appointed safety monitors of the planet, but he does other neat things that are never even seen on other shows, like using his pencil eraser to control small parts while using his cross cut sled.
As far as the tattoo goes, he told us it used to be an eagle before it got faded (like old tats do), and yes the network guys have him wear his blue shirts to cover it up. Unrealistic in my view, but you know television. Some shows "invent" reality while others don't want to accept it. ;-)
BTW:He was wearing short sleeve T-shirts the times I talked with him.Michael BurtonThunderbird HardwoodsKD MesquiteLlano, TX
I TiVO (If you don't have it, my condolences) both WoodWorks and New Yankee Workshop. I sometimes watch the router show with the father and son team (talk about boring...), and I used to watch Bruce Johnson's Woodworking, but I just didn't like the projects he picked. I also TiVO "Tools & Techniques" w/ Popular Woodworking's David Thiel.
I scan all of these for technique and/or new tools, and the few that are worth it, I save to tape for future reference.
But let's face it - Every one of these folks has done things that would make our hair stand on end. It makes the normal safety reminder sound just like a disclaimer, which I believe in fact it is (Norm: "And remember, there's no more important piece of safety equipment than these - safety glasses").
I almost never see use of a table saw with a guard on it. I also rarely see ear protection. And except for finishing operations, has anyone ever seen any of these folks use a respirator, even for big sand-producing tasks like sanding or hand-routing?
If I relied on any of these guys for my safety, I'd be down at least three fingers by now. Ever see a picture of a guy's big toe grafted onto his hand where his thumb should be?
Btw, to whoever posted the second message in this thread, asking what the purpose of the question was in the first place - This is a forum meant for nice people with like interests - any question relevant to woodworking, even tangentially, is allowed, and derision of someone for asking a question just makes me uncomfortable. No offense, but that's the way I feel.
Regards,Mitch
"I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."
I am amased how so many people find fault with others doing exceptional work and teaching principals and turning out very nice work pieces as Norm or David. I am sure Norm has done more to interest more people in woodworking and tool sales than any other craftsman I can think of. As far as David Marks, and his tatoos I don't have any but it is a personal choice that he has made. I have never met either of these gentlemen but have heard that they are both very nice down to earth people. They just make their living doing things many of us wish we could. Not preaching , only my opinion.
[email protected]
T.O.
I don't consider Norm as doing "exceptional work" or making "very good pieces", but I spose that's an individual thing.
If one's scope is broadened, exceptional work is being done in small galleries,shops and here on this forum. But personally I view Norm's stuff as easy reproductions- not much challenge, just a plain Shaker style. I'd rather see him build an Art Nouveau piece, lots of curves.
Edited 4/12/2005 9:35 am ET by JACKPLANE
I have been reading this thread and was wondering about the long sleves myself. I watch his show and don't think he is all that boring. I DVR his show and watch it all the time. As far as a craftsman goes, he makes some realy nice things (M2CW). I was considering taking one of his workshops, and when the wife found out his shop is in Napa Valley, she graciously volunteered to go along. I told her she would be bored, but she assured me she could find something in the area to keep her ocupied. Did you take one of his classes?
I haven't taken any of his classes yet, but am planning on taking his classes pretty soon on patinations and also laying gold & silver leaf. I am playing with working some patinas on copper into my stuff now. It is an interesting tack to take.Michael BurtonThunderbird HardwoodsKD MesquiteLlano, TX
I've watched this guy's show a few times and something about him gives me the creeps.
Of course he does; he uses power tools. ;)
Not only that, he's packing 16 inches (his jointer, that is).
The makes some nice stuff. His show, and the new woodturning show that's on right after it on DIY, are my two favorite WW shows. Although I don't think I've "looked up" to anyone since I was a small child.
Bad practice, idea being it would catch and pull you into a cutter instead of just shredding. Might not ever happen to you if you used long sleeves in the shop.
NEVER will happen to you if the sleeves aren't there.
I've never seen Marks' show, we don't get DIY here. Sounds like a decent show, there is always something to learn from another woodworker.
But there's plenty of bad examples on TV. Those infotainment shows being the worst. In a Fix, Trading Spaces, Extreme Home Makeover.
"Will we finish the project on time?!!!!" Oh, the drama. God, how I hate them. "Look at this finely crafted plywood piece of crap."
Do as I say not as I do. That being said...I avoid any loose sleeves below the elbow. When its chilly I do wear long-sleeve undershirts that fit the skin with my flannel sleeves rolled up as usual.I try to give the safest guidelines for newbies that might read this. Don't want anyone that is newly in love with woodworking to get soured the hard way. Sam Maloof really knows what he's doing, check out his hands.Would I trade a digit for my chairs fetching twenty grand each? Yeah, probably. But not for what I'm making.But hey, its your shop. Work however you want, Lefty. ;)
Hi again, everybody,
After watching a number of his shows it is annoying to see him in the same outfit everytime.
I was just wondering if he was "sleeved-out" in a Hell's Angels/X-con kinda way.
Not to hijack this thread, but I don't really look up to David Marks or Norm. This is not to bash either one of them. I do learn some things from either one, then there are times when I watch their shows and think that I would have done something different. You get a good balance watching 'em both.
I've gotten an article and numerous tips published in WWing magazines, and I'm teaching classes. So I'm not looking up to anyonen (at least not on TV), but I do keep an eye out for new faster or better ways of doing things.
It is funny how there is an East Coast vs. West Coast thing going on. The North Bennet Street School is in Boston, Krenov's College of the Redwoods is in California. You have FWW magazine in Connecticut, and the next glossy WWing mag is Woodwork also out of California. Norm vs. David Marks.
well being that he is my hero ; ) my response would be ... if mr marks is listening more ink david, lots more...... television is temporary , the glory of epidermal canvas is forever. he is an amazing craftsman... IMHO..... LONG LIVE INK AND WOOD.."expectations are premeditated resentments"
I remember safety lectures where partially rolled up sleeves were a "no-no" since they could get caught in rotating machinery. If the sleeves were rolled down and buttoned, that was fine. David Marks always has his buttoned, so I doubt if there's a problem.
The safety folks were also down on neckwear (ties, necklaces, etc) hanging freely. If you wanted to wear such things, you had to keep them tucked inside your shirt.
My garage shop isn't heated and I'm sure not going to try working in short sleeves in December. - lol
Edited 4/8/2005 9:58 am ET by Dave
Speaking of rolled up sleves, aren't Norm's plaid flannel shirt sleeves always rolled up?
Never seen the show, but the short answer is it depends on the operation and what tool is being used. Some are okay this way, some not.
"Anything is possible with a big enough expense account."
Hunter S. Thompson
So, does this mean that I should stop wearing my necktie while turning table legs on my lathe?
Woody
Well, I'm in favor of Darwin's theory on this topic. Those that survive are naturally smarter and become woodworkers of the future....."Anything is possible with a big enough expense account."
Hunter S. Thompson
"Well, I'm in favor of Darwin's theory on this topic. Those that survive are naturally smarter and become woodworkers of the future....."
I agree totally, says "He-With-Half-a-Left-Thumb" (that would be me).
Woody
I think davis does it to hide his Tats..I saw one show where his sleeves were rolled up and he had some. Maybe the producers felt they were in bad tasteBuck Construction View Image
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
No keep the tie, just put some sicky back sandpaper on the back and put the final finish on.
Hey if the wimmin can't find you handsome at least they will find you handy
My dad was a high school shop teacher, back in the days when teachers had to wear suits and ties to work. He'd tuck the tie in his shirt to keep it out of the way, but one day it slipped out when he was working on a lathe...he came home that day with the shredded remains of it hanging around his neck. Good thing he was strong as an ox, or it could've been bad.
He wore clipon ties from that day on.
Stuart,
I saw guy once with a freshly lacerated face. He was cutting firewood with a chainsaw, wearing a hooded sweatshirt with the draw strings hanging loose...Woody
I am "Woody", whose real name is Woody, not "woody", whose real name is Ken. I am so confused...
Woody,
I socked myself right in the kisser once. Hammering up into a ceiling while wearing one of those hooded sweatshirts. I caught the knot of the drawstring right in the claw of the hammer, and it yanked that thing right back at me when I ran out of "rope".
Cheers,
Ray
Hahahahaha!!!!!!
Thanks for all you input everybody. I got the answer I thought Iwas looking for.
ROFL!!! That's the funniest story I've heard in a long time!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Guess I don't watch enough TV. This is a good thing as far as I am concerned!!!! Lots of great mags and books out there that cover these safety issues.
Some good chuckles in these postings.
ThanksRon from Pittsburgh
Two words - Isadora Duncan
Naa. But I'd but some pants on when turning!!! :-o LOL
--Rob
Have only watched him once and don't remember the sleeves, but it's not (IMHO) long sleeves per se that are dangerous, but loose long sleeves. Cuffs should be buttoned. Loose sweaters are a no-no.
Some tools more dangerous than others: drill press, router in table if you're working small pieces and no guard (e.g., template or bearing work), lathe.
I wear long sleeves every day in the winter, but they're buttoned and my jackets have tight elastic in the sleeves.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 1/30/2006 11:24 am by forestgirl
Lathe is right, Jamie! It's probably the most insidious piece of equipment one can have in the shop, a few steps up from the drill press.There aren't sharp teeth to rip your flesh into hamburger but catching even a slight thread on a polishing rag or, worse, a shirt sleeve quickly escalates into the entire piece of fabric becoming a whirling dirvish at 1500RPM or higher. If your arm happens to be in that shirtsleeve, I doubt a 3HP lathe would stop to ask questions.Believe me, I've never caught my shirtsleeve on a spinning piece, of course, but have had a polishing rag yanked out of my hand. It takes nothing but the slightest shred to catch on an otherwise invisible sliver or crack that might open up as the workpiece gets warm to hot during the finishing process. For that reason lots of turners use paper towels for polishing since it will simply tear instead of grab like fabric. I perfer soft cloth but learned early on that the cloth must be held lightly in the hand and obviously you don't wrap it around your fingers.I wear long sleeves in my shop out of necessity/cold weather as well. But in doing so I recognize the potential danger and always stop and have a mini safety meeting with myself before even turning on whatever machine I'm gonna use. Long sleeves or no, one simply has to maintain concentration on the task at hand. Loose focus and loose body parts!...........
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Amen, Dennis! Maybe you can impress upon Nick the next time we're around that it might behoove him to relax and listen to my safety lectures. He wants to start using things like the router but gets all peeved when I try to give him a safety talk first. Kinda odd, considering the two fingers he caught in a press (or somethin') when he was a young man.
I have a friend who worked on the set-production team of a big, big theater company a few years ago. He has stories to tell, for sure! One that I remember well is about a woman who was using the disc sander to work on a fairly small piece of wood. She was holding it on the down-spin side of the disc. Ron strolled by and suggested she use the up-spin side so as to avoid an unintentional manicure. She scowled at him and he split. A few seconds later, there was a scream from that area of the shop. Six of her fingers had gotten caught between the platten and the spinning sander. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Believe me, I've never caught my shirtsleeve on a spinning piece..
Geee I caught my nightshirt in one spinning one...
One thing safety-wise I noticed about Marks on a recent show (it may be true of Norm as well): he wears a wedding band in the shop. Makes me shudder.
Talk to any hand surgeon about how dangerous these things are. The ring gets caught somewhere, and the flesh tends to get stripped off the bone. 'nothing much the doctors can do about it at that point: you're far better to get the finger cut off cleanly by a blade; at least then you stand a chance of re-attachment.
I have to admit, I wear my wedding ring in the shop -- will definitely reconsider after what you posted. When I was a youngster, I had a friend who got her finger caught on the twisted wire that sticks out at the top of a chain-link fence -- her ring must've been kinda loose, and the wire got between the ring and her finger. Problem was, she was sitting on a horse. Was not a pretty sight when she finally got back (walking....horse showed up a good 20 minutes before she did). She was a big, big gla too, so it wasn't like there was only 100# hangin' off that fence.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
We've been married for 33 years and my wedding ring didn't last 3 months. I was shoeing horses when one jerked it's leg away from right after I had driven a nail. The nail slipped under my ring and I got a cut that still shows the scar 33 years later. After seeing that, my bride decided I probably shouldn't wear my ring, either. I now don't even wear a wrist watch, just because I hate anything on my wrist, hands or fingers! Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934, Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT
I learned about the danger of wearing rings while I was in the Navy. There were numerous horror stories about guys losing their fingers sliding down a ladder (Navy speak for stairs) or going through a hatch. Of course, I put these stories in the same category as the ones we always heard about things falling off just before we hit port somewhere in Asia. At least I did until the day one of the newly minted 3rd Class Petty Officers in my crew lost his ring finger when his high school ring caught on a chain pin while sliding down the handrails of a ladder. He also dislocated his left wrist and tore most of the tendons and ligaments. He received a medical discharge and probably still collects a pension.I have a gorgeous wedding ring, but I generally only wear it when we're going out and I want everyone to know how proud I am to be married to the great lady at my side.Regards,Ron
Edited 4/13/2005 5:28 pm ET by RoninOttawa
OK, guys, you win (or won). When I got dressed this morning, with the first stop being the shop, I left my rings on the ring holder. Of course, now I sit here at work with what? no rings on, right! Oh well, just another routine to get into!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
As far as Marks giving people the creeps, he just doesn't seem as relaxed in front of the camera as Norm does. Course he doesn't use biscuits either.
Y'all can laugh at Marks and Abrams but I bet they are laughing all the way to the bank!
Heck, I'd build outhouses and birdhouses if I could make their income.
A bad day woodworking is better than a good day working -- yes, I'm retired!
Maybe Norm is laughing but David isn't.
Jim
You could do what my sister-in-law did: She had a jeweler cut a scarf joint in the ring, as well as two shallow "relief" cuts on either side. The idea being if it got caught in something, the ring would open up and bend back, saving the finger.
'still good idea to leave them off when doing anything with your hands, though.
I went though this link (about 6 months late) and I was surprised that you thought David Marks was boring! I read your entries and you seem to have interests in the areas he works and I would think you would be intriged with the talent that David displays in his shows. Unlike some other hosts, he does it ALL himself. I am just amazed by the breadth of knowledge.
Eric, I second your comments.
I find many of his creations outright damned impressive!
He's informative - He talks about his tools, his jigs, how he shops for wood, etc. He discusses shortcuts. He explains (and often uses) alternative methods for people who don't have his special tools (like his multi-function router table). He sometimes even tells how many sanding / finishing cycles he goes through.
He's very creative - His Egyptian chest and his sculpted dovetail bench (8/4 maple and walnut) are fantastic.
He's reverant - He pays tribute to his teachers, he really loves wood, and I've never noticed him putting down any other people, techniques or tools. I really respect his love for old equipment.
Maybe I'm just too inexperienced to "see through" him.
And, I have seen a picture of his bare, tattooed arms, but I really don't care why he wears long sleeves - maybe he does it so he can look dorky!
[I was too new / shy to Knots to comment when I read the original thread]
I spent a week with david marks in his workshop ,he is a true gentleman and artist. the real shame is the show is over and his works will be missed. also the only thing that I wish he had done was pomoted his work more like norm. norm is not the artist that david is How stupid diy was to let him go, he really influenced me into woodworking. He really put diy on the map for many
There's a forum on the DIY Channel website much like this one. All his loyal viewers were complaining for weeks when his show was taken off the air. A lot of them said that they were going to cancel their cable tier that carried DIY. I enjoyed his show but found him very stiff in front of the camera. He definently needed to take some acting lessons. I'm not sure what happened between him and DIY but according to David's website, DIY simply hasn't asked him back to tape anymore shows. All of the other woodworking shows are the same way with constant reruns week after week for the past two years. Maybe DIY doesn't have the cash to produce more shows or maybe they want to go into another direction.
It's a ratings driven industry. In the old days they would give a new show a couple of seasons tryout and often the cast would refine their relationships, get more at ease and the ratings would improve with time. Now they expect blockbuster ratings out of the gate and if they don't get them the show sometimes gets pulled before the first season is over.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
Hoe do you know these things?
Spent some time talking with David Marks at the WW show in Arlington, TX. He came across to me to be just like he appeared on the show. He is not, and does not need to be, an actor. He is an artist and a talented, gifted woodworker. I found him to be a very pleasant, friendly and open type person. Sorry to hear his show will not be continued. He is easy to learn from and his projects appeared to me to be very practical and suited to moderately skilled and highly skilled serious woodworkers. I'll miss his shows.
Billy B.
Oh my god. I didn't realize Woodworks was finished. You mean the shows they are airing now are all repeats and there won't be any more?!?!What a bummer. Its the one woodworking show that I *really* look forward to watching. I find it very inspiring. David Mark's inability to act has no bearing on my feelings - Personally I think he comes off as at least as personable and warm as Norm or any of the other home-improvement show hosts. His woodworking designs were contemporary but timeless and payed great homage to ancient tradition. I would encourage anyone who feels this way to send an email / letter / phonecall to DIY and express yourself. This could really help....Frank
Frank, The show still airs on Saturday nights but only in reruns. DIY now has a video link of his show on their website. Every week there is a different clip. I think they put it on their website because of all the complaints they got of them not producing anymore shows. Maybe someday he might return but right now it doesn't look good.
Edited 7/26/2006 1:25 pm ET by mvflaim
Hi all
I too watched David Mark's show on DIY . DIY sucks now that he is off. I kind if loked Norm Abrens show too
Have a nice day Lee
You guys ever watch that show that sorta replaced Woodworks called Freeform Furniture? Stars Amy Devers who uses Festool and Lie-Nielsen tools. mmmm baby!
You mean...
View ImageRegard it as just as desirable to build a chicken house as to build a cathedral. Frank Lloyd Wright
Oh Yes!... I wish she didn't make so artsy type of furniture or I'd be an avid viewer.
She's pretty competent with the machines etc., but honestly her sense of style just doesn't do it for me. I think back on the projects -- a plastic headboard decorated with t-shirts, a plywood magazine rack, steel bar stools, a hallway table with formed-leather trays, a CD rack with metal dividers, a mantel with a hidden drawer -- and can think of very little I'd want to work on or even own.
OTOH over and over I watch Marks' show and want to copy a technique or learn something from a style, and would have been proud to have designed and built nearly anything he's done. My first decent-looking project was a pair of clocks, the design of which was inspired by (but nothing like a real copy of) Marks' veneer-faced clock.
Amy does look a LOT better sanding than David Marks does. Sometimes I watch a repeat of one of her shows, but that's because I remember the better outfits. Heh.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
I watched a couple of episodes and the thing I liked the most about her show is that she'll use different types of materials like metals and plastics and incorporate them with wood but like you said, her designs aren't for me either. That and I can't stand how they repeat the same information everytime they come back from commercial.. Reminds me of all the "how to" shows on HGTV. Gets real annoying after awhile having them recap everything they said five minutes ago. I guess the days are gone when you watched a program from start to finish and didn't change the channel. Nowadays, producers are trying to keep your attention and bring you back up to speed from the stuff you missed while channel surfing. Makes me appreciate shows like The Joy of Painting and The Woodwrights Shop where they start and end the show without cutting tape... LONG LIVE ROY!!!!
Roy is another good 'un. I don't want to work like him (electricity and I are on good terms), and it's rare I think it'd be fun to do one of the projects he makes, but he knows tons of stuff I wish I knew and I'll be spending the next couple decades trying to pick it up. I watch every one of his shows and always find out something worthwhile.
Now there's a guy whose personality does come through the screen, he seems like a very likeable fellow. I think he'd be a great neighbor.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
I've actually met Roy a couple of times. First time he was doing a lecture at a historical village in Indy and the other was at the Woodcraft in Cincy. He demonstrated how to hew a tree at both of them and uses the same corny jokes as he does on TV. He's a lot nicer and down to earth in person than I thought he would be. If you ever get a chance to meet him don't miss it.. He's a helluva guy.
Wow, this thread has got some legs. I started this thread back in April of 2005.
Wow!
Yep, I'd like to meet 'em all. David Marks, Norm, Roy Underhill. There's some others I'd like to meet too, especially since they are getting up in age.
David Marks show was boring, as is the Router Workshop.
My favorites are Norm and Roy Underhill.
You sound like my girlfriend.. she can't stand either show and walks out of the room anytime they're on...while I patiently sit through "Design to Sell" on HGTV everynight... must be love....Tell me and I'll forget, show me and I'll remember, but let me try and I will understand.
Wow, this thread has got some legs. I started this thread back in April of 2005.
yes, we owe it all to you chills!
Or, is it, you're responsible for all of this! :)
After I finished watching every episode of woodworks (thank you tivo) I almost cancelled the DIY network. Almost every show on the channel gets old pretty quick. The only reason I have yet to cancel DIY network is because a few months ago Brian Boggs visited Southern California and videotaped a pilot episode at Cerritos College (where I attend class). He was trying to pitch a show to DIY network where he takes you through his process of making a chair.
After meeting Brian Boggs several times I have to say he is one of the most creative and intelligent woodworkers that I have ever met. He can answer any question asked of him and usually goes into things with such depth that I am amazed he even thought that far. His chairs are truly works of art. Some of them look normal enough on the website but the way they feel when you sit in them is amazing. It seems as though the whole chair bends slightly to accept you and conform to your body, but the design is in such a way that the flex and bend actually makes the chair more sturdy and long lasting.
Unfortunately, Brian did not feel that he performed as well as he could have during the pilot taping. (He was visiting San Diego that morning and spent several hours in traffic to get to Cerritos). I don't have much hope that DIY will actually air his show. After all, they don't see the value in continuing to produce David Marks' awesome show. But I am still hoping.
Since I've already been all over the place in this message I might as well add one more thing. Another woodworker who I greatly admire and who is very pleasant and interesting in person is Garrett Hack. If any of you get the chance to meet him or learn from him don't hesitate to take it. He taught a short lecture at Cerritos and did an amazing job. He is extremely good with tools and has well thought out solutions to just about every problem. I believe that he got a degree in civil engineering and architecture from Princeton before studying woodworking.
Several months after he taught at Cerritos I got the chance to talk to him again at a woodworking show. The show was organized so that Garrett Hack was sitting at a booth working on one of his projects and answering questions most of the day. Garrett Hack recognized my wife and I from the lecture and we spent several hours hanging out with him. He was extremely pleasant. Not only did we have a very informative discussion about woodworking, but he was happy to talk about any other aspect of life as well.
I can't say enough good things about Garrett Hack or Brian Boggs. Both are awesome people and extremely talented and intelligent woodworkers.
Unfortunately, I don't think there's much interest in television woodworking shows no matter who's the talent. Norm seems to hang in there, but I bet it's because of his TOH connection with the same producer and the ability to generate sales for the drawings and cross sales of other stuff. I live in one of the top 20 ADIs and the woodorking shows get kicked around all the time. Right now you can only get current NYW shows on one of the two public TV channels. Roy is gonzo and reruns of Norm appear on the other public channel. I talked to the franchisee of the Woodcraft store about putting some pressure on the TV people about the problem, but he isn't interested in doing battle. Good shows cost the stations a bundle to air and they want viewers to make it worth while (for sponsers sake). I used to own part of a TV show that ran on public TV and we made big bucks from our off-air sales regardless of ratings, plus the viewer interest was also high. Woodworking just doesn't have that kind of audience.
PBS is a money talks affiliate.Your money talks, make a donation.Specify that you are donating for the airing of a particular show.Shows that dont draw donations start moving towards the waist bin.
Yes, but money doesn't talk when it isn't a significant amount. I've tried that tactic often.
Maybe the furture of woodworking shows is through the internet with websites like http://www.thewoodworkingchannel.com They have shows like The Router Wokshop and The American Woodshop (also defunct) airing weekly through their site. If they brought on The Woodwrights Shop and Woodworks unto their programming maybe it'll draw more interest in the website.Tell me and I'll forget, show me and I'll remember, but let me try and I will understand.
I couldn't agree more about Garrett. Spent a week with him at Marc Adams where the focus was on hand tools. Very patient and a good teacher. I also had the same experiences at Marc Adams with Marc himself as well as Chris Gouchner and Mario Rodriguez. Unhappily Roger Cliffe is no longer with us. His favorite comment about why one should do something "this way not that" was that "that way leads to a screw-up and You wonder how I know that!" It seems that Marc goes out of his way to select teachers that relate well to the class as well as know their trade.
I really agree with list of 3, but can't stand that know-it-all on Am. Woodshop. Sorry for the hit, but could'nt stop myself.
And the guy has a PhD in history.
Roy Underhill is the Mother Teresa of woodworking...
Tell me and I'll forget, show me and I'll remember, but let me try and I will understand.
She's pretty competent with the machines etc., but honestly her sense of style just doesn't do it for me. I think back on the projects -- a plastic headboard decorated with t-shirts, a plywood magazine rack, steel bar stools, a hallway table with formed-leather trays, a CD rack with metal dividers, a mantel with a hidden drawer -- and can think of very little I'd want to work on or even own.
Absolutely agree. Much more competant with welding and metalwork than I am, but I gotta say I don't like any of the "modern" stuff she does. It was interesting for awhile trying to catch a glimpse of a thong underwear strap ;), but even that gets old after awhile.
The technical name for that is “the whale tail”. Always fun to scout for.
HI I watched freeform furniture a couple of times. Do not relley care mutch for it do not like the style of the furniture. Watched woodturning tecneques some They have too maney reruns .
Have a nice day Lee
I couldn't agree with you more.
I have been watching David's show for a long time and learned something new on each show.
The problem with DIY network is that they can't tolerate anyone with an I.Q.
Amy Devers is not an artisan, therefore a good fit for DIY.
Jeeeeez, you really dragged that one out of the way distant past. Actually, I'm glad you did, because when I made that post, I had him mixed up with someone else. I've edited out the word "borrrrring" and left in the comment about long sleeves being tight and buttoned. There's some guy on TV that builds stuff that looks like it belongs in an old college dorm (back in the days before college kids live better than I do, LOL). That's who I was flashing on when I made that comment. It wasn't even 8am, after all. I don't wake up until at least 9:30, LOL (nightowlette).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) Do unto others as you tell them they should do unto you....
I think others have mentioned his tatoos. Using the long sleeves was the producer's idea. I can imagine the reason. Most of the people that would have interest in the show are probably my age and I am not sure what I would have thought when I fist visited his show and saw an armload of tatoos. My fist impression of him was that he was somewhat uneasy with the camera, but I soon got over that when I saw how clear and well he presented himself. Seeing his work gives you the first impression that there is NO WAY you could duplicate what he has done. After he goes through the steps, you say: "Boy, that is easy" after he shows how to do it broken down in such bite sized steps.
There's another guy on DIY, Bruce Johnson, who hosts a show called Woodworking. His stuff is more like what I did in Jr. High shop (heck, one show he just assembled a commercial rocking chair kit). Marks' stuff, honestly, is the kinds of stuff I hope to be able to produce before I die. Both shows have their place, and I watch both and learn.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
At least you folks have shows available to gripe about! Up here in the frozen North, about the only 'woodworking' show I can get now is the one that comes out of Winnipeg -- "The Router Workshop". At least it serves as a good baseline reference for all the other shows!To the best of my knowledge, we don't get the DIY network up here. I used to be able to get Norm on HGTV, but they decided to replace it with another much needed home decorating show. Now, the best I can do is hope to catch the occasional show carried on PBS out of Boston or Seattle. Count your blessings on having shows to watch!Regards,Ron
Edited 1/30/2006 10:27 pm ET by RonInOttawa
Is "The Router Workshop" the show with the father and son? Dad has a golf ball sized mark centered on his cranium? He uses 2 C-clamps with a straight edge as his "router table"? But he still seems to be able to do anything? Is that the show? He doesn't use a router lift?I love his low-tech but effective approach! The shows I watched seemed somewhat poorly done, the projects were uninteresting to me, but I really did feel I was learning about using a router.
Your reaction to the Router Shop shows is nearly identical to mine. They really know how to get the job done without a bunch of fancy (and expensive) paraphernalia! I go nuts trying to watch it though. They have a website.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) Do unto others as you tell them they should do unto you....
I love those (the router guys) guy's.. I sell things to folks that I know haven't got a clue but are buying things because they can. Sure the fancy stuff is nice but if you haven't developed the basic skills to begin with then it aint gonna make you any better, (well maybe a little).
As for David and his long sleeves, hum.. I'll just leave that one alone.
Steve
"You can either be smart or pleasant, I was once smart but now I'm pleasant. I like being pleasant better." Jimmy Stewart - Harvey
Hey, I loved that show. I have Dishnetwork, and the network that carried it (PBSYOU), discontinued broadcasting on 1/25. I won't get to see it anymore, and that's a shame. I have the older episodes DVR'd, so I can watch the reruns. They can do a lot with that simple router table.
FG
As soon as you said "stuff that looks like it belongs in an old college dorm....." I knew exactly who you were talking about.
I think you are being way to kind though!
Doug
Hey Jamie,I don't wear a ring of any kind any more. My old man leaves his in the jewlry box too, and I always wondered why. Then, one day, when I was young and stupid, I decided to lift a keg of beer up onto a high counter by myself. Well, I got the keg up, but set it down on my high school graduation ring. The ring folded over, pinching my finger. We saved my finger by cutting the ring off, as my finger was going from blue, to purple, to black.No more rings for me, and the keg stays on the floor from now on.Tom
I don't wear my wedding ring at all when doing any sort of work or play. I used to play soccer as a goalkeeper and there was a story of a south american goalie who wore his ring while playing and jumped up and got his finger caught on one of the hooks that hold up the net on the goal and it tore his finger off in his glove. Makes me cringe.Michael
I think Roy Underhill has his sleeves up!
Gan ya' get caught up in a foot pedal lathe?
I spent a weekend with David in his shop about a month ago. He wore a tee shirt. The only reason he wears long sleeve shirts on the show is due to his tatoo. The producer insisted he wear the long sleeve shirt, in fact David got his hair cut and shaved his beard off for the show. David is one of the nicest people you will ever meet. He is an absolutely fantastic artist/woodworker. Spend some time in his shop and you will know what I say is true. End of Story!
Jim
Here's my beef with David Marks:
'pert near everything he makes requires several jigs.. and many of the jigs are beyond my skill level to make.. let alone the dadgum piece itself.
Looks like a hawk to me ...[Avoid schadenfreude]
Edited 2/1/2006 8:39 pm by Trappist
You forgot to mention how much some of those jigs would cost to make! I watched his show on a bent wood coat rack and I swear that it would have cost me more in materials to make the jigs than it would have to make the coat rack out of a nice wood like cherry or maple or even walnut.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
True that!!
I listen to Green Sleeves while I work?
conservative cable television station + tattooed artist = long sleeve shirts
I met David Marks at Marc Adams School of Woodworking about 3 years ago. He told us that the show's producers want him to wear long sleeves because of his tatoos. I did not notice any particular details of the tatoos as another poster mentioned. I wanted to share some insight because David is such a great guy to meet in person and really contributed to the great time I had at Marc Adams even though I was not in his class but was in Yeung Chan's group. The whole school experience treats everyone like a big family, and David is a very personable guy and invited our group to share in some of the big moments of the class he was teaching. David's group was doing one of his amazing guilted metalic finishes on the wallnut sideboard tables they made. Yeung Chan thought it was cool enough to give his class a quick break and go check out some of the interesting moments in the process. In the week at the school I never saw David wear flannel, just t-shirts as I recall. He joked about that a few times and I couldn't help but notice that not only his clothes but his personality is much different from on the TV show. It's sad because when I used to watch the show I felt like something was a bit off about this guy, like you just don't know what his motivation is or something. In person it's totally different. He is very enthusiastic and joyful about his work and teaching. He shared a slide show of his portfolio at the school, as all the instructors do on one night. He is basically an artist that loves using wood as a medium. His skill is phenomenal. Like other artists he seems to be able to create anything his imagination desires, but it takes a lot of hard work and dedication. You should check out his website.
His TV show would be much more entertaining if they let him be himself. They could just film him doing a class like he does at Marc Adams and it would be perfect. But that would take too much time and expense I guess.
If you ever have a chance to take a class from David or any other reputable teacher I highly recommend it. You will love woodworking even more than you do now and will reach a higher level in your craft for sure.
Aloha,
Brettskie
I didn't get any negative vibe from his show. On the contrary, the care he put into it was quite clear, as his show wasn't shot "from the hip" like the dispensible Tools & Techniques on the same channel. The artistry is clear, too, and I've both learned techniques and gotten inspiration from that show. (Not that you were implying otherwise!)
I do agree his personality doesn't come through much, unless you look at the work. Then it speaks pretty clearly.
I found him warm in person the two times I ran into him, and was glad to let him know how much positive effect his show has had on myself and others.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
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