Replies

1. 
   ted | Apr 04, 2007 03:43am | #1

   From the testimonials I have read and from my own experience I'd have to say Clearvue definitely has a superior product. We have an Oneida 15Hp system and I'd have to rate it as mediocre at best. The cyclone doesn't do that great of a job of seperation and the filter bank ends up with a lot of clogging debris in them that I end up having to clean out every other month or so not to mention the fine layer of dust I get throughout the shop. Having said that I've also heard Oneida's smaller units perform better than their larger units.
   On the otherhand I'm really impressed with the reports from Clearvue users consistently stating they never have to clean their filters.

2. 
   cmiller231 | Apr 04, 2007 04:40am | #2

   I have the 1.5 hp Onedia with the filter inside the cyclone . I like it but it is a PITA to remove cyclone and remove filter , You get more dust on yourself cleasnng the filter Than if you had no dust collector.I use an air nozzel with a 4' tube on it to stay away from the filter .

    I had the screw work loose that holds the fan on to the motor, major disassemble.To night i heard it making that rumbling  sound as it is coasting to a stop , a sure sign that it is loose again..

    Ordering the larger 55gal drum was a right discision,especially with the filter where it is .

    I has pretty good suction but i would buy the 2-3 hp to have a little reserve.

   It is  a one man shop dust collector., which i knew going in.   Chris

1. 
   Ink Man | Apr 04, 2007 06:17am | #5

   Chris-I have read on this and other forums about workmanship issues and certain other inadequacies of the Oneida units.  I guess I could deal with some workmanship deficiencies if the performance was acceptable.  I have a small, one man (+ boy) shop, and the longest run I could conceivably have would be <20'.  You say a larger fan would work better-how long are your runs?  I'm looking at most of my equipment being no more than 12-15 feet from the cyclone.  Do I really need a 5HP motor to collect fine sawdust at these short distances?

1. 
   cmiller231 | Apr 04, 2007 03:31pm | #9

   In order to get through the old ceiling grid system i  have used a few extra elbows ( which is bad ) .I wish it done a better job on my power matic 66 , but there again there  are a lot of gaps/ openings    that need to be sealed on it..Probably , longest length is 15-18,but devolped length is what is important .

        I would call Onedila and get their input as to what you might need.   Chris

2. 
   Hastings | Apr 04, 2007 03:43pm | #11

   Ink:I too have an Oneida (2HP Super Gorilla) in a small shop. It is attached to a combination machine and bandsaw.I was going to add an air filter as the fine dust affects me. The Oneida guy said, "just leave the DC running for a few minutes after you turn the tool off and you won't need the filter". This advice has worked and so I haven't bothered with the filter unit.I have no complaints about the performance and Glad's new garbage bags work well and make it easy to dispose of the waste.The transparent tube between the bottom of the cyclone and the drum provides a good visual reference point to see when the drum is getting full. You just have to remember to keep glancing over when jointing or planing.In another post, the OP noted that the finish, in particular, was not all it might be. While it certainly isn't an automotive-quality paint job, it's what I would call fit-for-purpose.I used the largest diameter pipe I could to each tool and the Oneida rep designed the layout (it was too small for their formal design service).Users of the smaller Oneidas seem to be a very satisfied bunch and I don't think you will regret it.I did use a Felder at Kelly Mehler's School in Kentucky and that's a sweet set up but it was way beyond my budget!Hastings

3. 
   daryl | Apr 04, 2007 05:12am | #3

   I got the Woodsucker, and yes, it got victimized by idiots writing reviews in magazines. If money is no issue (hah!), then get the Felder RL series. It's probably the best dust collection unit ever made, and believe me you pay for it. About triple an Oneida unit. If not that, then anything Bill Pentz recommends I'm sure is great. Look also at the new Grizzlys. They seem large though.

   The worst part is emptying the barrel -- a 35 gallon unit--after planing or jointing. A quick release clamp with a large lever would be helpful. Also, get the Penn State piece of plastic, and line the barrel with a heavy plastic trash bag and the plastic Penn State sheet. Then you can more easily empty it.

4. 
   dmohle | Apr 04, 2007 05:14am | #4

   You can make your own cyclone out of Sonotube concrete form or big shipping tube (which is preferable since it's not made to delaminate lie Sonotube). I built mine with 4' of 16" diameter sonotube and some plywood disks and rings plus a big plastic flowerpot for the removable bin for about $65. Taller and larger diameter are better if you have the space. No funnel section needed.
   Just feed the inlet hose tangential to the side, about a foot down from the top, and the DC hose goes center of the top end.

   The arrangement works well, having caught the odd nail and screw and big chips: also caught a quart can of paint that got slurped in in a moment of inattention while dusting. The only thing that has got by so far are plastic bags. I get about 25% of the dust in the DC bag that I used to get.

1. 
   Patto | Apr 04, 2007 07:08am | #6

   d,

   would you have any pictures of your set-up?  I'm not familiar with the names you are using for materials so hard to picture.

   I really only have two tools that could use dust collection, a band saw and a lathe. Was using the lathe over the weekend on Jarra and there is a fine red film over every thing - cant be good. Probably should also build a down-draft table.

   I really dont like noise in the shed so would want dust collection outside, not sure what that implies for size an power of the collector. (the lathe is quiet)

   Dave

5. 
   tms | Apr 04, 2007 07:28am | #7

   I have a 3hp Onieda and have no complaints. The only problem I've had is when I inadvertantly let the collection drum overfill. Once you get chips packed in the cyclone then you have problems. I plan to put in a detector to prevent future operator error.

   Tom

6. 
   JMartinsky | Apr 04, 2007 02:52pm | #8

   Dear Ink,
   I have a 3 HP Oneida and I am all raves. Like yourself, I have small children. We have four ages 8,7, 4,3. So I am on board with your reasoning. I have my DC set up with about 150' of pipe clearing five machines, using a system that Oneida designed and have been very pleased. I have my unit exhausting directly outside and can state that virtually nothing makes it past the cyclone. Even after a snow fall, there is no discoloration of the snow at all, and inside the drum is everything from chips to flour. Great investment. As a matter of advise, I would suggest that no matter what manufacturer you go with, have Oneida design the system. You will get a nice, balanced system, that will be able to effectively clear more than one machine at a time, if necessary. But more importantly, get a floor sweep. It is simply an collection point that is at floor level that pick up swept material. My kids LOVE it! They FIGHT over who gets to clean up! Now, if I could just get them to clean their rooms........

   Best,

   John

1. 
   JohnWW | Apr 04, 2007 03:33pm | #10

   Run the pipes to each of their rooms and put in floor sweeps.

   John W.

7. 
   Piccioni | Apr 04, 2007 04:36pm | #12

   I've got an Oneida Dust Gorilla (2HP) and I'm very happy with. Night and day compared to the old style DC I had before.

   I don't worry about all the fine dust hysteria, etc.. You could suck all the dust over to another continent and still more of it doesn't get collected at the source (especially the table saw) than gets through  the filters.

1. 
   tom77 | Apr 04, 2007 04:57pm | #13

   Thanks to all for sharing your experiences on cyclone products. I am tempted to revisit the idea for my shop.Years ago, I worked with two other engineers on the use of cyclone separators to collect excess toner dust in copiers. We spent a fair amount of time learning the details of cyclone performance. Hopefully my recollection will be helpful.1. As stated in several posts, system design has a large effect on the performance of the cyclone. They need enough air flow to properly separate particles and deposit them in the drum. The design services offered by the companies should be great at achieving this.
   2. Cyclones separate large particles better than small particles. There must be a good filter after the cyclone to capture the small particles. Even in a well designed system, the filter will eventually clog with very small particles (fine dust) and require maintenance.
   3. The very best filters don't filter out all of the fine particles. You will still have a coating of fine dust everywhere. If you are concerned about health, an air cleaner is an essential part of the system. I agree that running the dust collector for some time after turning off the power tool would be helpful, but you will still have some level of fine particles that are not collected. Hence, the air filter. I run mine for about 30 minutes after generating any significant amount of airborne dust.I hope these additions are helpful to all.Best regards, Tom.

1. 
   Ink Man | Apr 05, 2007 02:29am | #14

   Thank you all for feedback.  I have actually been leaning towards Oneida.  What you Oneida owners have said about your machines confirms my feelings.  I thought we would hear more from owners of ClearVue and/or Penn State cyclones, as those seem to be fairly popular among hobbyists.  Anybody out there got any feedback on these?

1. 
   dgreen | Apr 05, 2007 03:12am | #15

   I've got the Penn 3HP with the double filter stack. In the three years I've had it I've taken maybe a couple teaspoons of dust out of the cleanout under the filters. Fit and finish is very good and it's been trouble free.

   All runs are 4" flex hose, dust collection is very good and the insides of the hoses stay clean as a whistle. I have sanders, shapers, saws, jointer, planer and more hooked up with blast gates and it works very well. My longest run is about 30 feet.------------------------------------

    

   "The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."---------------Samuel P. Huntington

2. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Apr 05, 2007 07:19am | #16

   I have a Penn State Tempest 1425S 2 1/2 HP sitting in 8 boxes that arrived UPS this morning. I can't give any feed-back at this point, but will in a couple of weeks.

   Regards...

   Sarge.. jt

1. 
   Glaucon | Apr 05, 2007 02:39pm | #17

   Good morning, Sarge. I would also be interested in your take on the PS system. They are local to me, and that is an attraction...BTW, I assembled the SC 17" drill press this past weekend, and I am impressed so far. Some corrosion on the head unit, but nothing that a few passes with 800 grit paper couldn't fix. It is presently wired for 110V, so far I cannot think of a reason to rewire for 220...Best regards,Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

2. 
   rpholland | Apr 05, 2007 03:34pm | #18

   Question to all,  does anyone have their cyclones set up to switch between venting outside to inside filter venting ?  I would think this would work during the spring, summer, and fall months when outside temperatures are warmer,  and would save on the filter use.  Any drawbacks to this type of set-up ?

   Rob

3. 
   AzDiscDog | Apr 05, 2007 07:53pm | #20

   I don't have my cyclone (yet), but I will be doing a similar setup. Vent inside during the 'HVAC' months and vent outside for all others. I was going to come up with a fancy design for switching between the two outputs, but Bill Pentz pointed out to me that a short length of flex hose swapped between the two would be much easier. I'm only going to swap 3 or 4 times a year, so I don't see it as a big deal. The only downside to venting outside is losing conditioned air. The upside is that you never have to clean your filters that way.... :-)Glen

4. 
   Ink Man | Apr 06, 2007 02:31pm | #25

   Rob-I considered this possibility, but living in Minnesota makes this option pretty unattractive.  Plus, I have a basement shop with block walls so getting a port to the outside would require a lot of work.  When the outside temp is comfortable, I put a small box fan in a window and blow air out, but for the majority of the year I am either heating or cooling the inside air.

5. 
   EF | Apr 07, 2007 08:09pm | #31

   Rob asked:
   "anyone have their cyclones set up to switch between venting outside to inside filter venting ?... Any drawbacks to this type of set-up ?"Is there anything like a gas water heater you could back drafting? Those would be running all year long. That would be my worry, just made sure you are know where your inbound air supply is coming from.
   Edward

6. 
   rpholland | Apr 08, 2007 06:19pm | #33

   No water heater, I am in a separate shop from the house, here in Williamsburg, VA. we usually have 8 - 9 months of 60 + degree weather, but it gets very humid in the summer. Rob

7. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Apr 05, 2007 05:04pm | #19

   And good morning to you, sir. I'm a bit envious of that 17" SC press. I wish I could think of one excuse to abandon the Rigid 15", but other than I don't have 6" quill travel (which I could have used just last week-end) I can't. But the SC 17" would be what would replace it. Gray is beginning to take over my shop for the most part in my up-grades as those Steel City guys and girls have truly upped the ante with their competitors from my observations.

   I currently have a Penn State 1 HP DC connected to a 30 gal. chip catcher mounted on a mobile base. I have nothing but admiration for it considering it's size and capability. Same with the Penn State customer service for that matter. If the can, sheet metal joints and all connections are properly sealed (I have insured they are as I won't hesitate to add silicone sealant or weather-strip adhesive to a seam if I feel it has potential to leak) it does a marvelous job. It could be rolled up close to a machine and directly connected in a matter of seconds.

   But... with additions of the larger BS for re-saw.. a larger jointer.. a Uni-saw with a full kerf blade and over-head dust collection.. and a 20" planer it has limited shop size that allowed the ease of mobility. I am also generating saw-dust at a rate that is much more rapid. The 1 HP is still doing an excellent job but may be over-matched for the equipment that has been added. Hence...

   After shopping and evaluating the specs.. I discovered that the Cyclone business in general is highly competitive and that it is altogether possible that claims to cfm are sometimes shaky as too exactly how did you arrive at that figure. I am impressed with the 8 fin impeller design of the newer Penn State Tempest. Impeller design with sufficient HP behind it and maintaining pipe size from cyclone to machine with as little reduction as possible appears to make a big difference in how much actually gets moved IMO. 

   I can't necessarily see how paying more for the more hyped system would benefit me personally once I realized that all reviews of cfm are not always what they appear to be on the surface.  I did my best to remove the "smoke-screens" that I feel possibly exist and see what's really behind them. My conclusion it sitting on the shop floor waiting to be assembled this week-end.

   I don't mind paying extra to get extra. But after calling several companies that are hyped, I kept basically getting the same answer as to why I should pay more than brand X. It kept coming back to more cfm and better design than the competitor.

   I have as much faith in cfm test under what appears to be "smoke-screen" testing as I do someone that claims that they have a 5 HP motor that will truly produce 5 HP day-in and day-out under normal conditions. Ain't so...

   And as for the better design.. these cyclones seem to be a simple design in reality. I've seen all the blue-prints of the brands on the market. No one could single out an answer the question of "what is so much better" to warrant the price. Elusive at best IMO and the conversation would always seemed to get diverted  back to ours has more cfm. "Does it really....."? :>)

   I'm a gambler and taking the chance on the smaller.. less hyped.. lower over-head company to deliver what I realistically expect from a cyclone at a very fair price. If I truly thought the difference in pricing would benefit my lungs, I would have shelled out the extra.

   I think Forrest blades are well made and great. But I have found others that will perform just as adequately at a lower price leaving the difference to be invested in something else of value. Same scenario here for me....

   Regards...

   Sarge.. jt

8. 
   Ink Man | Apr 06, 2007 02:23pm | #24

   Sarge-am very interested in getting some feedback when you get the system up and running.  The PSI systems seem to be pretty well-made, and I haven't heard much (if anything) negative about them.  The price is attractive, although that is not the only factor driving my eventual decision.  Anxious to hear from you when you get some operating time under your belt.

   Tim

9. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Apr 06, 2007 04:09pm | #26

   Morning Inkman...

   Barring natural disaster, consider it done. Should have it up and running by mid-week as I having to run an additional 220 V for the cyclone. Should be complete by mid-week with the cyclone getting assembled this week-end also. 

   But.. there's raw test stock already acclimated as I just finished a kitchen table and 4 chairs and the "First Lady" has issued the requisition for the new bed and chest with clear dead-lines. ha.. ha...

   I'll book-mark your request and respond as soon as I get some "from the trench" data to hash out!

   Regards...

   Sarge.. jt 

10. 
    JerryPacMan | Apr 06, 2007 04:22pm | #27

    I am looking foward to your Penn State cyclone report as I am considering a Onieda also. 

    Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .

11. 
    SARGEgrinder47 | Apr 06, 2007 08:52pm | #28

    Afternoon Jerry...

    I have seen a friends Onieda in action and I have nothing negative to report about it. According to him, it performs extremely well. There's just the question in my mind after comparisons of "why does one system cost more" without cfm charts being thrown at you by the prospective seller. As I stated, if I could detect a difference of quality or function then more is warranted. I just have my doubts at this point that there is that large a gap. Maybe... maybe not!

    Regards...

    Sarge.. jt

12. 
    Ink Man | Apr 07, 2007 06:13pm | #30

    Sarge-when you do get a chance to report on your new cyclone, could you also provide some details on your ducting setup?  I am considering 6" S & D PVC-mainly because I believe it would be easier to change configuration using this material.

13. 
    SARGEgrinder47 | Apr 07, 2007 09:39pm | #32

    Afternoon Inkman...

    Mine will be a very simple set-up due to the short run. My major saw-dust makers are kind of backed around it as the cyclone will be more or less centrally located in the way I have my shop set-up. That set-up has the machines close to the outer doors as warm months (and lots of them here in Atlanta) I can open the doors with a large fan in back of the shop blowing out.

    But I will show a pic and shorten the thousand words! ha.. ha...

    Regards...

    Sarge.. jt

3. 
   jptenberg | Apr 06, 2007 09:08pm | #29

   I have had the 3.5 tempest in my shop for a year now, and have nothing but good things to say about it.  All of my ducting is heavy-guage 6" spiral pipe, with short runs of 4" felx line at each machine.  It is hooked up to a heavy-duty long ranger remote comtrol, and fires up every time.  I check the filter cleanout periodically, and have never seen enough dust to bother cleaning it out. 

   The only thing I would change would be to get a larger coollection drum, as the stock 33 gal one fills all to quickly.  When I was shopping, I was looking at the dust gorilla, and although you do get a Baldor motor on the gorilla, I felt that the price difference would be better spent on ducting.  I hve not had any problems with the motor, but make sure that you have a dedicated 20 amp 220v circuit for the machine.

   I think that in the end, the ducting and gates and whatnot cost more than the cyclone itself.  I believe that I spent about $2500 to equip my shop which is about 1600 sq ft.  I have drops to 6 machines, plus a floor sweep and a nozzle for smaller mobile machines. 

   When I ordered the unit, they were backordered, but the cust. service at Penn State was first rate.Peter

   www.jpswoodworking.com

8. 
   HowardAcheson | Apr 05, 2007 08:02pm | #21

   >> I am going to purchase a cyclone as they are clearly the most effective method of capturing the fine dust.

   The thing that captures the dust is the filter component of a dust collector. The cyclone is a component that separates the larger particles from the smaller dust particles. The cyclone component has little to do with the size of particles the get ejected into the atmosphere. By separating the larger particles and chips the filter will need less frequent cleaning.

   Howie.........
1. 
   Rich14 | Apr 05, 2007 10:02pm | #23

   Howie,

   I disagree. I don't have my Clear View cyclone yet (it's taking much longer than I ever thought it would to get my shop set up) but I've done a lot of personal research, including looking at existing cyclone installations. A well designed and installed cyclone will trap just about all the dust, including the fine dust, and dump it in the collection cannister, before it gets to the filter.

   I saw 2 operations which had converted from large "standard" DC systems to cyclones. Before the switch, the standard sysytems needed filter cleaning on a constant basis. The filters would clog in as quick as a week. After the change, the cyclone systems needed very little attention. The outflow filters remained amazingly clean week after week. One shop cleaned them monthly, but only as a routine, not because they were clogged. In fact they were hardly discolored by dust. Nothing had changed in the shop's operation. They were generating all the same dust as before, it just wound up in the drum, along with the large stuff.

   I didn't see the shops before the cyclones were installed, so I can't talk about the conditions then, but when I saw them, they were quite pleasant working enviroments. There was fresh saw dust around in places, because people were working, but there was no layer of dust anywhere, and the cyclone filters were practically white.

   Rich

9. 
   user-5599826 | Apr 05, 2007 09:16pm | #22

   I also have an Oneida 2 HP gorilla. It's in a one man shop so it's only ever collecting from one machine at a time. The planer and jointer can fill the 55 gal. drum in about 2 days of heavy use because the chips trap a lot of air. All piping is 6 in. PVC sewer and drain, with short lengths of 4 in. flexible running to the machines. Most people will freak out about the PVC because of its ability to store an electrical charge on its surface and the potential explosion igniting spark. Though I don't recommend it, I'm still alive (and the shop is intact) after three years of use. In reality, I don't think that it's that easy to achieve the correct mixture of sawdust to air required for ignition. That, or there is simply no static discharge from the pipe to the dust cloud. All in all, it's an excellent machine. The only thing I changed was the motor starter. I got one with magnetic low voltage controls, as I have three start/stop switches around the shop.
   -Alec