Grizzly 2HP cyclone comparison with Oneida looks very good.
Penn State 2 1/2HP performance curve looks maybe a little better than Grizzly 2HP and takes up less space, costs a bit more.
Anyone have experience with cyclone products from either of these vendors? Would you buy from them again?
Anyone know of a better cyclone choice in this size class over 700CFM at 8.5″ SP?
Thanks,
Replies
brucet99
You're asking a difficult question.. one that is nearly impossible to answer objectively.
Most people only buy one brand.. they need one system so they make a decision and go for it.. I can't imagine anyone buying two of something both a differant brand and using them both to get a good objective comparison. Plus then you have all the variables..
What if you happen to get a lemon.. 99.9 % of a manufactures stuff is great but everybody screws up sometimes. You get the one bad one in a thousand does that mean that brand is no good?
See the problem?
Let me state this. I bought Grizzly, because all the rest of my equipment is Grizzly and it's performed so well for me that I simply don't know any better..
I would go with Oneida Air, that is all they do and can help you with design.
An interesting thing about Oneida Air, they are located in the old Porter Cable Rockwell building in Syracuse NY. That has been refurbished and they rent out space to many small companies.
"I would go with Oneida Air"Oneida Super Gorilla costs half again as much as Grizzly but in side-by-side performance tests came up somewhat less powerful. Is their quality and durability that much better? If so I can pay it. If not, I could use the difference for a router table or most of the price of a planer. That's why I'm asking for peoples' experiences with these companies's products.
One item with Oneida Air, their product is made in the USA. Also the service is good, you can talk to an English speaking person and understnd them. That is not the case with many companies today. Again they can help you set up a system if you need it.John
Thanks for your comments about your Grizzly. Which model is it? How long have you had it? Their side-by-side comparisons with Oneida -both performance and price - certainly have made Grizzly look like a great choice.You said, "I can't imagine anyone buying two of something both a differant brand and using them both to get a good objective comparison."I didn't ask who had owned two of them, just who had experience with any of those products. Your answer has been helpful as I had read a comment elsewhere from a guy who had a lemon from Grizzly. Lemons aside, if several guys answered that they had bought one brand and they had problems, I would cross that one off my list.
What's your source of a side-by-side comparison? I'd like to check it out.
"What's your source of a side-by-side comparison? I'd like to check it out."http://www.grizzly.com/dustcollectors/compare2.aspxSetup both machines to 10 foot flex pipe of same diameter as cyclone inlet; 7" in case of 2hp machines. Oneida rates their fan curve measured at inlet.
BruceT
Not to muddy the waters, but have you considered these guys...http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/The have a really good reputation and have a 5HP 15" for $995. This is halfway between do it yourself and a kit. Like the wiring and filters you have to add.BUT... you get a 5HP /15" rated at "Over 1400 CFM through 6" pipe!". This is according to their website.They also have a picture gallery of bunches of installs. Everywhere I have read comments from the owners they are VERY happy.I plan to install one of these in a few months....
"you get a 5HP /15" rated at "Over 1400 CFM through 6" pipe!"I've looked at that ClearVue site and came away underwhelmed. By the time I buy the filters, switch relay, garbage can collector, etc., it would cost me $1037 plus 12-16 hours to buy the missing electrical pieces and other materials and to fabricate key parts from them; and in the end I would have a home-made looking thing without the full set of features that Grizzly 2hp offers for $819. If you are planning to run two big tools at a time, maybe 1440 CFM is important, but for $1189 delivered, you could get a Grizzly 3hp unit that is made of steel not MDF, moves 1466 CFM through 6" pipe, 1654 CFM through 8" pipe, pulls maximum 13.9" SP vs ClearVue's 12.9", uses less electricity (19.5A vs 21A), requires a 20A 220 circuit instead of 30A, comes with all the parts you need, and requires one fourth the time to install.http://www.grizzly.com/dustcollectors/dcperformance3.aspxMost of the design features that ClearVue touts, air ramp, square inlet, angled inlet, are featured in current versions of Grizzly's cyclones. BruceT
Bruce,Excellent analysis. I guess I just never added up all the pieces. You have really done you home work.I am the only one in my shop, so I can only run one machine at a time, so the next place I am going will be to the Grizzly site to relook at their DC's.Thanks for the reply.
One little detail -- the current draw should not exceed 80% of the rated amperage of the breaker, i.e. both the Grizzly and the ClearVue exceed the 80% rating (16 amps) of a 20 amp breaker so should be wired and breakered for the next size up which is 30 amps.
Thanks for the tip.I think I'd better check out the 1.75hp motor on my hybrid saw. That thing should be pulling 17.5A @ 115V, yet Delta specifies plugging into a 20A 110V outlet.BruceT
For all practical purposes, I think you will be okay. A breaker that is rated at twenty amps doesn't always trip at twenty amps - sometime under and sometimes over.
Breakers only come in 15 or 20 amps, or larger, so the 20 amp rating is the closest you can come. You need not worry. Smaller tools don't have to be matched to circuit breaker size.
John W.
THE GRIZ WEBSITE SHOWS THEIR COLLECTOR AS THE BEST! NO KIDDING! USE THIRD PARTY TESTING RESULTS. START WITH THE REVIEW IN FWW.SAM
Thanks, but the review in FWW is 4 years old so the tested machines were all from before Grizzly, Oneida and Penn State introduced their much-improved current models. I have been unable to find any recent comparative tests or reviews of cyclones. Do you know of any?BruceT
bruce,american wood worker did a review in their jan 2006 issue.sam
Thanks, I'll look that up.
BruceT
I'm not sure I'd take Grizzly's comparison as gospel. It's possible that they're biased toward one of the products tested. ;-) I notice Oneida also has a comparison page:http://www.oneida-air.com/oneida_advantages.htmPete
Edited 6/19/2007 8:37 pm ET by PeteBradley
Did I miss something here? You suggest that Grizzly's side-by-side testing may have been biased, but then you send me a link to Oneida's comparisons? I was impressed with Grizzly's tests because they ran both machines on the same day, connected to the same 10 feet of flex hose and with the same set of step-down fittings at various real-world sizes - 7", 6", 5", 4", 3" - so the comparisons would be more valid than trying to use manufacturers' published fan curves. Nevertheless, I appreciate the link. When I last visited Oneida's website their only comparison was the one on ClearVue. It looks like this new one links to the "American Woodworker" cyclone test article I just ordered from the magazine (10 - 12 working days lead time).Thanks,BruceT
Edited 6/19/2007 11:29 pm ET by BruceT999
I don't think you're missing anything. I'd treat Oneida's information with the same caveats as Grizzly's.At risk of touching off a 500-post flame war, I'll mention that one could question Grizzly's test methods a bit. As near as I can tell from the translation, they took measurements 7.5 diameters downstream of the inlet in a chunk of flex pipe. It's not clear to me how this distance was chosen. Also, flex pipe is going to generate a lot of turbulence near the wall, so the measurements could be very sensitive to position of the pitot tube relative to the wall. Finally, it appears they're assuming the pitot tube speed measurement applies across the entire area, which may not be a good approximation in flex pipe.Having seen a lot of DC threads go nuclear, here's a personal disclaimer: I don't own either product and have no interest in either company. Please don't try to convince me that one brand is better than another as I really don't care. Take the opinions above as comments on the potential limitations of scientific data, not an attack on any company. Pete
Edited 6/20/2007 10:14 am ET by PeteBradley
"Having seen a lot of DC threads go nuclear..."
I'll bet they have; maybe like Fest Tool vs EZ Smart on BT?"...flex pipe is going to generate a lot of turbulence near the wall, so the measurements could be very sensitive to position of the pitot tube relative to the wall. Finally, it appears they're assuming the pitot tube speed measurement applies across the entire area, which may not be a good approximation in flex pipe."
Interesting point. Do you think the center-tube velocity measurements might overstate the CFM of the tested machines? The 7.5 diameters seems to be an industry standard of length of straight pipe run necessary to achieve minimal turbulence. Thanks for your insights. It's very hard to evaluate an expensive purchase from manufacturers' claims, especially when they omit compensating features of the other company's product (like when Grizzly touts their air ramp and point out that Oneida lacks that feature, or when Oneida touts its neutral vane inlet and points out that Grizzly lacks one. Turns out they do the same thing.)BruceT
Did anybody ended up buying the grizzly? If so what is your experience? I was looking at some customer review on amazon and there seem to be all kind of issues with the motor.
"I was looking at some customer review on amazon and there seem to be all kind of issues with the motor."I haven't made my purchase yet, so when I saw your comment I immediately went to Amazon to see what the motor issues were. I expected to find several negative reviews, but I could find only three reviews and just one that mentions motor problems. Grizzly re-designed the rotor early this year, so any reviews before then won't represent current product.Check out the thread by Sarge [35848.1} about his Penn State cyclone purchase.
BruceT
There are 4 reviews on amazon. I know that is not a lot but 3 of them are terrible (which raised my concerns).
A customer had is motor failing with his 3HP cyclone.
Another with is 2HP had as he described a dust leak issue (which somehow defeat the purpose of the cyclone)
Another with a 2HP had is motor bearing failing after a series of events that lead to changing the impeller. He also talk about some dust leak.
I'll be looking forward to reading about Jeff experiences setting up his 2H Grizzly cyclone.
Emmanuel
PS: note that I have nothing against Grizzly, I own 2 machines (8" jointer and spindle sander) and have no major complaint so far except for a broken switch on the jointer.
Bruce,
I expected to find several negative reviews, but I could find only three reviews and just one that mentions motor problems.
I noticed the same thing about reviews on Amazon in general. You would have to be looking at the exact item that the OP is talking about, as each and every item on Amazon has different reviews.
For example: There were some negative reviews about the new Jet cabinet clamps on Amazon, and in a discussion here I mentioned that was why I had not bought any. Another poster checked and said I didn't know what I was talking about, all the reviews were positive. Turns out he was looking at the reviews for the 24" clamps, and I was looking at the reviews for the 50" clamps.
Lee
Last week I purchased the Grizzly G0440 2 HP cyclone. It arrived at my house THE NEXT DAY (I live about 150 miles south of their Bellingham facility). I am in the process of unpacking it and setting the machine up with a wall mount. I haven't run it yet, but I can tell you the fit and finish of the components is first rate, I can find nothing to criticize. It's very heavy gage steel construction, powder coated finish, beautiful machine. I couldn't be happier with my purchase so far. If you go to Grizzly's website and look at the side by side comparisons, comparing the Grizzly units to the comperably sized Oneida units, feature for feature, you'll find the Grizzly units compare very favorably. The cost of shipping was 1/3 the cost of Oneida shipping rate. Also many features standard on the Grizzly unit is an accessory on the Oneida. I also looked at the Penn State units and the Clearvue units. I felt the Grizzly offered the best value for the money without adding the shipping cost. The shipping cost made it a easy decision.
I have several other Grizzly machines that I have used for some time. I have NEVER had trouble with the motors on their equipment. I've had Jet dealers tell me that Jet puts a better motor on their equipment than the Grizzly machines, I don't believe them. When a company trys to sell me a machine by criticizing the competition, I get suspicious, similar to a politician telling me to vote for them because the other guy is not qualified. But I digress. I have Jet and Powermatic equipment as well, and it's not given me any trouble either.
I will report on performance once the unit is up and running. For now, given the size of this unit, I'm prepping the wall including fresh mud and paint, before I add the mounting lumber. I also have to run another 220 volt circuit for the machine, so it will be a couple of weeks before I have the machine assembled and running. Till then....Jeff
I'll be looking forward to reading about your experiences setting up your new Grizzly cyclone.I understand that one of the two packages weighs over 300 lb. Did you have any trouble getting delivery to a residential address? How did they get it off-loaded from the truck?BruceT
Shipping was $94.00. I've had no trouble getting delivery to my residential neighborhood. I need to explain something here.
Recently I drove to Grizzly in Bellingham to pickup a bandsaw and tablesaw. The trip took total of 7 hours and cost me $50 in gas. Considering the value of my time and the cost of gas, I determined $94.00 was a very resonable deal!
I also spent and EXTRA $35.00 for lift gate service when I ordered the machine. When the truck arrived at my house in my residential neighborhood, the driver used a pallet jack to wheel the palleted package to the lift, down to the ground, and into my garage where I wanted it. No fuss, no muss, easiest delivery I've ever experienced!
The entire machine came in a very large box, banded to pallets (unscathed by shipping too!). The filter was packaged separately, also undamaged by shipping. Inside the large box, the components were packed very well with customized heavy cardboard separators keeping the components from damaging each other. Best packaging I've seen on a disassembled machine like this!
picking it up myself was never a question for me - I would have to spend 3 days, two motel stays and $550 of fuel to pick up in Bellingham. Even picking up at the freight carrier's terminal wouldn't be worth the cost of a lift gate charge.Did you get the muffler? I want to minimize noise since I will have to mount my cyclone in a corner of my two-car garage and that would reflect noise back out into the room unless I cover the wall behind with carpet or something. Maybe I can mount it exactly one quarter wavelength of the dominant frequency from the wall so the reflected sound would cancel :)Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I'll look forward to hearing how your installation goes.
BruceT
Yes, I bought the muffler as well. Will let you know how it all works out and how much the muffler dampens the noise. I am mounting mine in my garage workshop too, on the back wall in the corner, so I had similar concerns about noise. I also tend to work late into the evenings so I wanted to minimize the noise my neighbors have to put up with.
I'll document the assembly with digital photo's as well....once I get the wall prepped, which should be done by this weekend. I have to get this done, it's keeping me from using my shop, and that is never good. I also need to sell my Jet DC to recoup some of my investment, which will be spent again, on duct work. BTW, just as an FYI, the inlet on the 2 HP cyclone is 7", the exhaust is 8"....Jeff.
Jeff, any feedback on the machine? I hate to bring back an old post... but I'm in the market for a new DC and the Grizzly 2HP is at a great price! Unfortunately, the 3 reviews on Amazon.com worry me.
I am still assembling the unit (took the summer off). One mistake I've made is buying the machine but not the support frame. Yesterday in fact, I ordered the frame and further work is on hold until the frame arrives. I was going to hang this unit off the wall. Once I got it and started assembling it, I realized how much I underestimated the size and weight of this machine. IT"S BIG. Given how it's gone together so far, I can say this. The workmanship is excellent. You can hand spin the impeller, and it will spin for a considerable amount of time before stopping. Smooth and well balanced. Everything is fitting together very well. I am confident I am going to be very happy with this machine. I will post a review once it is in operation. Approximately two to three weeks from now. I'll make a generalized comment on reviews on Amazon. In my opinion, you are much more likely to see negative reviews than you are positive reviews. It's my opinion that people in general are much more likely to post a review when they have a negative experience, than when they have a positive experience. Just an observation.
Edited 11/8/2007 3:59 pm by jeff100
I can't comment on the Penn state cyclone but I can tell you that I have had the grizzly 2 horsepower cyclone for over a year and have no complaints with it. It works great with all my power tools including my planer and jointer put out a lot of shavings. if I had to guess I would say that it captures over 95 to 98 % of all wood shavings. My shop garage stays much cleaner with this machine I highly recommend it.
PS: I used 6" piping to all my gates and reduce down to 4" to my machines except my table saw which has a 6" from the bottom and 4" from the top.
Very soon I will be plumbing my new Cyclone and my question is plastic or paper...er...metal for the duct work?
Inquiring minds want to know what's preferred....
Jeff
Metal is the better choice; it creates less friction and does not hold as much static as pvc.
I'd go with metal (what I'm using with my DC system). You can cut the stuff to whatever length you need and then with a crimper make your connections without having to buy connectors. Also very easy to add saddle joints where you want to drop to a tool (like with a 6 inch main and 4 inch drops). Make sure you point all of the crimped ends towards the DC. Also recommend buying wide-radius elbows instead of the cheapy elbows available at the local hardware store. They're more expensive, but offer a lot less resistance. Using 6 inch mains and wide radius elbows, I'm getting very good performance with a 2 hp Oneida cyclone connected to almost 100 feet of duct. About the only problem I've got is that the metal blast gates all leak a little, causing a small amount of performance loss.
WOW, this thread just keeps on living.Well, I made my decision.I purchased a 3HP Grizzly back in August. Here's the delivery pictures.http://picasaweb.google.com/bartee/200708CycloneDeliverySo last weekend me and a great friend acutally installed the unit. The unit is very heavy and I am totally impressed with the construction and pieces and parts for assembly. Heavy rubber gaskets were used throughtout. So Here's the pictures of that. http://picasaweb.google.com/bartee/GrizzlyG0441CycloneDustCollectionInstallation
Better late than never I guess.I finally got my Grizzly G0440 cyclone up and running. It was worth the effort. I haven't got it ducted to my machines yet, but I have run some initial tests. Could NOT be happier. Very impressed with how smoothly this machine runs. I had purchased and was going to use the Grizzly muffler kit, but it runs much quieter than I expected, so I will not be using that accessory. I ran about 1/2 of a trash can full of wood chips (from my old system) thru the cyclone as the initial test, and it worked very well. Power is impressive. I am waiting for my blast gates to show up from Lee Valley, then I will install the shop duct work and get back to making furniture. The only change I made from my initial plans was to buy and use the mounting frame instead of mounting the unit on my wall.
brucet99
I'm sorry I never got back to you.. I went down to check the model number, got distracted and forgot.. I'm sorry..
Anyway it's A G0548 I looked real hard at a Shop Fox G9975 and even went so far as to borrow friends for a week.. but I do massive amounts of heavy planning. (I'm building a timberframe home)
The planner puts out too much for the Shop Fox to handle and really it puts out too much for the G0548 to handle as well. (20 inch planner)
That's not something most people will ever experiance.. I can run a few thousand bd.ft of a hardwood at a time. Plus many of my timbers are around 20 feet long and as much as 18 inches wide. That's a lot of chips.
Hi all, I just made that decision myself about two months ago.
I went with the Oneida Dust Gorilla 3 hp over the Grizzly 3 hp.
Here are my comments (good and bad interspersed with no particular order):
I'm very satisfied with the performance of the machine. Its quite amazing how much the machine sucks (in a good way).
Getting the ductwork from Oneida was convenient, but their design service wasn't really all that useful for me in my small shop, I basically did the 'redesign' myself after their Oneida's design was lacking in several areas (incorrect BOM, ignoring some of my requests, etc)
The build quality of the unit was, eh, about a 6 out of 10. The welds are kind of lumpy with moderate spatter, the powder coating is a bit uneven and lacking in some places. Stand back 5 feet, and it looks great. Up close, you realize maybe they could have done better. I don't think the build quality issues I am talking about affect performance in any way. Basically just aesthetic.
Contrary to popular belief, the Dust Gorilla is *not* 100% US made (from the mouth of the Oneida sales rep). Only their 'pro' (white painted) models are 100% US. The rep said 'some pieces' of the Dust Gorillas are imported. I didn't ask which pieces, but I suspect the drum + cyclone (big pieces) would be imported, that would make the most sense.
My drum was damaged during shipping, probably partly because it wasn't packed to well by Oneida. My Oneida rep sent out a new one within 20 minutes of me calling him (but it took him 3+ weeks to get a call tag out for me to return the damaged one.)
Its quite a bit louder than my old 'traditional' (non-cyclone) Jet collector, that's the only downside to the new cyclone over the old.
Price of the Oneida unit can get a little better if you gab with the sales rep for a while, especially near the end of the month. (i.e., free remote + bag gripper, etc).
About 6 months ago, I bought a Grizzly 10" Jointer, comments are (for reference how Grizzly might compare):
very happy with customer service (missing piece was sent out same day, no questions asked).
Very good build quality and packaging.
friendly kowledgeable sales rep + support guy (both definitely english speaking)
good price, and excellent shipping rates.
So...in summary, I am satisfied with the Oneida Air unit, but if I could do it all over again, I think I'd buy the Grizzly, save a couple hundred dollars, and probably be equally satisfied to what I am today.
any other particular questions about my experience or the performance of the unit, feel free to ask.
E.
Thanks for your comprehensive response. I feel even better about the Grizzly product.Great tip about calling in the order and timing it for month-end when they may be willing to bend a little to meet sales figures.BruceT
"my timbers are around 20 feet long and as much as 18 inches wide. That's a lot of chips."I'll say that's a lot of chips! Thanks for your comments and for going down to get the Griz model for me.
BruceT
I bought a 2hp Oneida Dust Gorilla about two years ago and love it. Because of an earlier experience with Grizzly I didn't consider their products. I debated between Oneida and PennState. The Oneida was slightly more expensive but featured a Baldor motor rather than an imported motor and that alone was enough to decide me in favor of the Oneida.
A friend runs a cabinet shop a couple of miles from my home. He's got a 3hp PennState cyclone and was most impressed by the performance of my Oneida, saying that it delivers better performance than his PennState, and is also quieter.
"A friend runs a cabinet shop a couple of miles from my home. He's got a 3hp PennState cyclone and was most impressed by the performance of my Oneida, saying that it delivers better performance than his PennState, and is also quieter."It stands to reason that a 2hp might be quieter than a 3hp, but better performance? That's impressive!How did he judge the performance, by the way?BruceT
I'd be careful here... I don't have a dog in this fight, but DC "performance" depends on many factors- the design and length of the run(s), size of the ducting, number of drops, etc. I'd be surprised given the similarity and convergance of design among major manufacturers if there was much performance difference among similarly powered cyclones, and skeptical if a more powerful one underperformed a lesser one.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled