Replies

1. 
   RogerL | Sep 13, 2004 03:59am | #1

   Ed:

   You can order a ripping chain from Bailey's (http://www.baileys-online.com)  I find that a regular chain is fine for only a few pieces.  Chain's are not that hard to sharpen.  Get a file and a guide and follow the angle carefully.  Rotate the file toward the top of the tooth.  Use a flat file to take down the rakers ( the little "fins"), they sell a gauge to determine the height.  After awhile you will find one pass on the rakers every other sharpening usually works great.  If you have a Dremel they sell stones and a guide to sharpen chains.  I can charpen my saw in 5 minutes with it.

   The ideal bowl blank is flat on both sides.  After I chain saw down the center I run it through my thickness planner to get it flat on both sides.  Then I mark the bowl size with a compass and cut it out on the band saw.  Mark the spot of the compass center to affix your face plate.

   If you have pieces that won't be used immediately wax the ends with "green wood end sealer" from Wood Craft.

   Good luck, Roger

1. 
   EdKelle | Sep 13, 2004 04:34am | #2

   Thanks much Roger, I am going to look into this chain. I have the Dremel sharpening stones but have not tried them yet. I was just curious because nobody seemed to mention the fact that you can dull the chains pretty quickly while cutting your woods. So I assume this is normal.

   I have the wod sealer, and actually I had sealed the ends of the logs after I got them, but I will seal the blanks tomorrow. The store bought ones I had came already sealed.

   Is there anything you use to stabilize the blanks while passing them thru the planer? Unfortunately, I don't have one. So I just have to be pretty carefull while doing the initial roughing out. I use a Glaser screw which is fantastic, but still bring up the tailstock until it has a decent balance to the piece.

   I did make a set of various plywood cutting circles to tack to my blanks for bandsawing circles. it helps because I have been working with the natural edges on most of my bowls so far, at least as a starting point, Usually make the sapwood side the foot, simply because the logs were not big enough so I needed the tops to be from heartwood. Probably not the best choice but I use what I can get.

   Thanks for the help

   E

1. 
   RogerL | Sep 13, 2004 05:03am | #3

   Ed:

   They dull fast because of the work of cutting.  Because of the fiber orientation there is more work and wear on a regular blade.  The ripping chains do cut nice.  I had one for my old saw but it doesn't fit my new one.

   To flatten half logs.... Attach a board to the ends of the log and make a trolley for a plunge router to ride on and just slowly drop a bottom cutting bit until it is flat across the top.

   I love to turn bowls I like the free form of it, and you end up with a functional piece.  Or should I say my kids end up with a functional piece!

   Enjoy Roger

1. 
   wundernaloud | Sep 13, 2004 10:05am | #6

   I'm having the same problem-with cherry- the logs are green and tougher then heck to cut. Fresh chain from the saw shop and I am smoking and burning wood almost immediately. I"m just trying to crosscut so I can get them to fit under the bandsaw. I even put on a new bar because the cut was acctually going off in an arc. I'm using a sthil 026 that I would think would have enough juice but the saw is bogging down. So I am begging to wonder if its a lack of power. I have never cut green cherry but I would have never guessed it would be so resistant. I was given a substantial amount and have sealed the ends. Whats up with cherry.

1. 
   EdKelle | Sep 13, 2004 06:03pm | #10

   Yup at least I am not alone. Cherry must be a real bear to cut. A got the smoking and burning but not as quickly as you might have. Did you check your lube level? I noticed that it gets used pretty quick. And I heard if you use regular oil, it things out very quickly, so use the chain saw lube.

   I don' t think it is lack of power really but chain sharpness, because initially mine started cutting prety well, but after a while it was barely making sawdust. I am using a borrowed Poulan 16" which probably has less power than yours. I was considering a Stihl but since you are noticing the same issues, I guess the expense really will not do me much good. Maybe just buy a few more chains and keep sharpening them.

   I have noticed drift as well.

   Maybe there is a reason why I do not see a lot of bowls made from cherry. But this is all I had access to so far.

2. 
   mike4244 | Sep 14, 2004 06:30am | #11

   Are you sure the chain is on properly? Cherry, especially green cherry is no harder to cut than oak or most other hardwoods. I cut a lot of cherry with a 16" poulon electric chainsaw, I use this saw to crosscut and a 20" homealite to rip. You may have the teeth pointing in the wrong direction, or the sharpening job was not correct.Learn to file  your chains, very easy to do, you need the correct round file for your chain.

   mike

3. 
   EdKelle | Sep 16, 2004 02:07am | #12

   Yup chain is on properly, it even has an engraved diagram on the case to make sure you do it right . And it was a new chain to start with, a Stihl replacement chain.

   Is there any special reason you use another saw for ripping? Do you use a different chain on it?

   Right now I am going to use the correct size Dremel stone to sharpen it, but I am seriously considering using a file system after that because I am sure the dremel will wear down pretty quickly.

   Thanks

   E

4. 
   Telemike | Sep 16, 2004 06:08am | #13

   Ed, I've used some stones I buy at OSH (a hardware chain) that are sold by Oregon. I use them in a small cheap air powered die grinder. They are small cylindrical stones with a 1/8 shank. They last a few sharpenings, then I toss them. I've also used an inexpensive diamond cylindrical bit in my dremel. Files work well too if the teeth aren't really mashed. If you're cutting firewood from 8 - 20 inch wood, it's hard to blow the sharpening as long as it's in the ball park and you periodically grind down the depth of cut tabs.

   For ripping, I use a regular chain, but, if there's a lot of good wood to rip, I buy a new chain. I use it for firewood later. Chains that I sharpen free hand sometimes cut in a curve - fine for firewood (2 1/2 cords a year = all our heating needs, cry Minnesotans), but not too good for boards.

   I lay out a chalk line on each side of the log, then cut down the log lengthwise. I got this from a turning book, I can't remember which one. A very good tip and a very good book - perhaps someone with more brain cells remaining can remember the title. Cutting lengthwise along the grain produces long strips of wood like spagetti.

   When I've gone in 4 or 5 inches on each side, I split the log with wedges and a sledge. VERY hard work.

   Then, get one side somewhat smooth by using the chain saw as a plane (hold vertical to the surface, move back and forth to remove high spots). Then, I use a scrub plane to get the surface pretty flat and band saw freehand along a chalk line.

   If anyone refers to self cut boards as "free", they're talking only about money. You pay big time for self cut boards, but the air dried color is one step beyond the hardwood supplier.

   Good luck, and good cutting.

5. 
   EdKelle | Sep 17, 2004 02:22am | #15

   Yes like spaghetti, that is what I was first getting. I know I didn't pay attention to the grain so that probably was part of the issue as well. cause I only had 3 logs 14" diameter by about 18"high. and I only got thru 2 of them! I will look into the files, because it does sound easier to do it on the saw wherever the wood might be.

   I did notice that the chain tends to stretch after a while until it cools, I assume this is normal.

   Nowhere in any of the books or videos, do they tell you all the hassles you go thru just getting this wood before you can even turn it. OH well. I guess it makes my pieces much more valuable

   thanks for all the info

   E

6. 
   mike4244 | Sep 16, 2004 09:45pm | #14

   I have a rip chain on the homolite saw, I often slab a log for boards. Otherwise the regular crosscut chain is fine for short rips such as you do for bowl stock. The rip chain is faster and easier on the saw (and me) , but I would not bother reaching for this saw if I only ripped short lengths.

   The dremel or a file is a good way to sharpen the chain, I use a file because my dremel is not cordless. I often sharpen the chain in the woods. I use the dremel with a 3/16" chainsaw grinding cone to sharpen bandsaw blades. I sharpen the blades right on the saw. This does a better job than the new factory sharp blades I get from grizzly.The dremel sharpens the tooth and the gullet at the same time. I can sharpen about 1 1/2 blades , 133"x3 teeth per inch with one grinding cone. Takes about 20 minutes.

   mike

7. 
   EdKelle | Sep 17, 2004 02:30am | #16

   thanks Mike. I was looking up rip chains and I noticed that they do not have the anti kickback that regular chains do. Is that a big deal? Not that I even know what this feature does, because I have not used a chainsaw very much till now.

   well I did seal up the few blanks that I made, now I jsut need to find to start roughing them out. My previous bowls I roughed out using a 3" screwplate thru the bottom with 4-6 screws. of course with ovalizing after drying, I was only able to refasten using 2 holes but it worked out OK. I turned away the screw holes in the foot, since I left extra material in the base. this time I will be turning a dovetail foot , and I do not have as much extra material as before,so do you think I will be able to use this safely for rechucking after the drying/ warping proces? Using a Talon dovetail chuck.

   Thanks

   E

8. 
   Julie1 | Sep 17, 2004 03:35pm | #17

   I have a question. I posted this in the wrong spot earlier maybe this is the right spot.

   I plan on making a second bowl out of Cherry but I have a problem, I don't have a band saw. The only other tool I have to cut out the inside part of the ring is a jigsaw. I thought this would work better than taking the drill press to it like my other bowl. It's too hard to hold onto.

   Will the jigsaw vibrate too much causing the ring to crack?

   Any input would be helpful.

   Thanks a lot.

   Edited 9/17/2004 9:17 am ET by Julie

9. 
   EdKelle | Sep 17, 2004 07:27pm | #19

   I'm not quite clear on what you are trying to do here. Cut a ring? Are you trying to make one of those bowls made up of stacked rings? Like they do with a scrollsaw? I am guessing you are working with a plank rather than a big chunk right?

   Could you describe it a bit more? Or show a pic?

   E

10. 
    Julie1 | Sep 17, 2004 07:44pm | #21

    Yes, I am trying to make a bowl using stacked rings. Like the one in the photo below. Unfortunitly I do not have the tools normally someone would use. I have to use what I have for now.

    I am using planks. They are about 1/2" - 3/4". I take a plank like you will see in the photo and simply trace a bowl the size I want. Then I use the jigsaw to cut the circle out, (you'll probley laugh at this one) and then use the drill press to go around the whole inside of the ring to cut out the center. Then I use a chisel to even up the pointy edges on the inside (thats how I ended up splitting the ring). After that I use the dremel to even it up some more and finally sand it.

    The tools I have to work with are:

    Table saw, Jigsaw, Drill Press, Scroll Saw, and Sanders. I think thats it.

    You can't fix something if you haven't broken it yet.

    Edited 9/17/2004 12:50 pm ET by Julie

    
11. 
    EdKelle | Sep 18, 2004 12:16am | #22

    Juile,

    YOu already have the tool that will work best. A scrollsaw. They usually have capacity of up to 2" so your 1/2 to 3/4 planks will do fine. I'd say a # 7 or so scrollsaw blade will do well. Higher numbers mean bigger teeth, which let you cut thru thicker boards easier. If you use a tiny one like a #2 it will most likely flex a lot, and probably cut so slow it will burn the wood. Release the scrollsaw blade from the top fastener of the scrollsaw. You drill a small entry hole in the inner circle you want to cut out, then lower the wood thru the hole and fasten the top of the blade. Of course have your circles drawn on the board at first. Once you have competed the cut release the blade form the top again and remove the board. Refasten the blade, and cut the outside circle. No need to do any chiseling at all. so no more worries about cracking anything. You can smooth the inside of the ring with your drill press sander again, use as large a drum as possible and be sure to keep the wood moving so as to not get lumps and hollows. I am sure you can handle the rest on your own.

    Good job on the bowl, it really looks like it took a lot of work. Let me know if this works for you and be sure to post some pics when you finish it. Good luck.

    E

12. 
    Julie1 | Sep 18, 2004 12:37am | #23

    I thought you were talking about the circular saw at first but I know what you're talking about now. I just have the habbit of calling it just a jigsaw.

    Boy am I glad. I did'nt have a clue what you meant by taking the blade off and puting the wood in. I surely wasn't about to take the blade off the circular saw to put it through the wood!! WOW! Hahahhahahahhahaah.

    I am in the process of cutting the ring out. I had to stop because I had too much interference going on.

    I'm trying a new technique. It's like a bulls eye. I realized after I had the circles drawn that there wouldn't be a way for me to cut the next circle without cutting through it. Unless I drew double circles instead of single ones and cut through the middle. I would just repeat what I did to the first one. Except drill a couple small holes next to each other instead of a big one and put the jig into that and follow inside each double circle. Of course I'll have to compare drill bits to the size of the jig blade so there is just enough room to fit it in.

    Thanks for you're help, I needed it.

    You can't fix something if you haven't broken it yet.

    Edited 9/17/2004 7:46 pm ET by Julie

13. 
    EdKelle | Sep 18, 2004 03:09am | #24

    Just checking but you do have an actual scrollsaw like what is pictured right? That is what I meant by threading the blade thru the project. Because a jigsaw is one of those handheld saws with the blade going up and down.

    What kind of interference are you having?

    I cant even begin to imagine cutting any kind of circles with a circular saw. Unless they are about 4 feet round, and then it would not be a bowl but more like a kiddie pool. :)

    Very impressive that you are doing all this work with the tools you have. Makes me feel like I m taking the easy way out with my lathe. Just imagine how they made bowls hundreds of years ago.

    good luck with the project, it sure is rewarding to end up with something hand made.

    E

14. 
    Julie1 | Sep 18, 2004 04:13am | #25

    I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

    I don't have a scrollsaw,I have a circular saw (that's what I thought you were talking about), and a scrolling jigsaw, drill press, drill saw and some sanders.

    I am using the scrolling jigsaw.

    The interference was my 6 year old daughter. I had a call from her teacher that she missed the bus and I needed to go get her. Then I asked her when we got home if she wanted to play with the sawdust while I made my bowl because she's afraid of being alone. Well that was a mistake. hahah. She talked my ear off and I could concentrate on what I was doing. I'm hanging it up until tomorrow while she's busy doing something else. Maybe James will keep her busy.

    I love the hand made things more than anything. That's why I did'nt sand the bowl completely. I left some of the marks from the chisel because I thought it gave it character.

    Thanks again.You can't fix something if you haven't broken it yet.

2. 
   EdKelle | Sep 13, 2004 05:24pm | #7

   Roger,

   Thanks for the router trick, I will have to try that sometime. It is very enjoyable to turn bowls. Frustrating at times but still very fun.

   E

2. 
   Patto | Sep 13, 2004 05:08am | #4

   Hand file is quick with only a little practice, make sure that the gullets are not getting clogged (chips are clearing during the cut). By new files regularly - they get blunt too. I found that the dremmel stones dont seem to last long, but that could be just my technique is a bit rough.

   Saw doctors charge very little to sharpen a chain - I find it useful to have a couple of them and be prepared to send them in every now and again.

1. 
   EdKelle | Sep 13, 2004 05:26pm | #8

   Thanks, I am going ot try the dremel first and see how it goes, then maybe check into files as well. Sounds like I will be doing much more sharpening than actual cutting but hopefully not

2. 
   Telemike | Sep 13, 2004 05:40am | #5

   Two other issues come to mind. If the wood has been dragged or has been around for a while, it may be pretty dirty and dirt and mud dull the chain really quickly. A small pebble or a chunck of gravel is even worse. Try washing the wood off or remove the bark just before cutting.

   Also, a lot of farm wood and suburban wood has stuff in it. I've found bullets (soft) and fence wire, staples, nails, and even a horseshoe! Some times I find old nails, screws, and fence wire in the wood stove ashes when I clean it out. If one corner of each tooth is rounded, blame a foreign object. If the chain looks really beat up when you look closely, it may again be a foreign object.

   If you have a really good metal detector or know someone with one, give the wood a once over before you cut it. I have my wife's cousin bring his really good metal detector when he visits.

1. 
   EdKelle | Sep 13, 2004 05:55pm | #9

   Good points, thanks. I kept the logs off the ground on some bricks because I did not want them really getting wet and bug infested. At least it kept them from getting soggy on the bottom sides, there were bugs though.

   I'll have to see about the metal detector, I have heard of that before but do not have one. I will take a closer look at the blade, but I so far it is just the hardness of the wood dulling it. Thanks for the input.

3. 
   Napie | Sep 17, 2004 05:32pm | #18

   Cherry is VERY easy to cut.  Check the chain tension, I think you have it too tight; you should be able to lift the chain half way out of the slot.  Keep the bar lube level toped off.  Also the bar needs to be kept smooth and flat, I draw file the edges and belt sand the face to keep the burr off.  A lot of things affect chain life and getting hot will dull it fast.  Also, yard wood has a lot of dirt in it, make sure it’s clean; I use a power washer, (that will strip the bark sometimes which helps).

    

   You can rough the blanks with just the chainsaw; I then rough turn them and stuff them in a box with the shavings.  They will dry in about six months then finish turn them.

    

   You should let some of that cherry get wet and start to spalt, it really is pretty, more so than maple.  Stand it end grain in a puddle, let the bugs work. It smells like good whisky when you turn it.

1. 
   EdKelle | Sep 17, 2004 07:36pm | #20

   I have checked chain tension, yes it was to the point that it was just still in the groove. not too tight, actually the inscructions said to make sure it turns freely without much force as well. I will have to check into the bar though. could be the culprit. I did notice that it runs thru the lube pretty quickly.

   When you talk about roughing with a chainsaw, do you actually try to get it round? I just kind of knocked off corners at a 45 or as close as I can get.

   Previously, I tried the soaking in dishwater trick for quicker drying. Let them sit in a solution for a few days then placed into brown bags with newspaper for a month after roughing. Still managed to get some splitting and warping. Not sure if it really did any good at all actually. I'd chalk it up to overeagerness, it's kind of hard to try and wait 6 months to finish something you are excited about. Unfortunately, I do not have a big stockpile of wood drying out so that I always have a piece to work with. Maybe someday though.

   The spalting sounds cool, I will have to try that. I do love the smell of cherry either way. Thanks for the advice

   I had bugs in one or my logs already, and actually it turned out pretty cool.

   E

   
1. 
   Napie | Sep 20, 2004 03:57pm | #26

   Nice bowl!

    

   If your lathe is heavy enough you don’t need a truly round blank and the chainsaw does a great and fast roughing job.  A big screw center works great for the outside, I use a Nova chuck to turn the inside.

    

   As too drying, just keep collecting nice chunks of firewood and rough turning bowls.  Before long you’ll be giving blanks to other turners just to get rid of them, I think I have at least 500 in the shop loft, they seem to grow fast.

1. 
   EdKelle | Sep 20, 2004 04:16pm | #27

   Thanks. I have only done about 8 bowls so far but I am really enjoyig it so far. I had a meduim duty lathe, a Delta 14" but I stabilized it a bit more enclosing the base and using a lot of sandbags.

   Wow, 500 sounds like you have enough to keep you going for years, I hope to get to that level someday.

   It is really amazing to make something as basic as a bowl and have people impressed that I made it.

   Thanks for the input

   E