I was cutting some through tenons for my project and realized that it’s a whole lot of work to get snug fits. Is this normal?
For me, cutting a nice fitting tenon was really a bunch of steps that involve a dado blade and band saw followed by usually all of the below: a sanding block, shoulder plane, and a chisel. Those are all used to get the fit just right. Is it just a lot of practice that makes this go smoother?
Replies
Jointerman,
I'd like to tell you it's a whole lot easier if you use a tenon jig, however, bout the only thing that drops off your tools required list is the dado blade.
Try viewing the video on making a small cabinet. Tim Rousseau is an excellent narrator and he presents a totally new (to me) method of cutting tenons on the bandsaw. I am a believer.
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
It's only a lot of work the first time. ;-)
Here's my power tool routine, based on the tools I have. (Different when I'm in the sweat-only mode, of course):
1: I have a set of spacers that match the mortise chisel set I have. I use set combinations of spacers with a dado blade set to make the desired tenon that fits my mortises perfectly every time. Here are the spacers. Note the table on the top spacer that reminds me exactly what spacers I need to use for each tenon size.
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2: Put the required spacers between the outer blades of my dado set on the saw.
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3) I also have a scrap piece pre-cut and marked that fits snugly between the mounted, spaced blades for each tenon size. There is a scribed line precisely in the middle of the piece. Insert that piece between the blades.
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4) Clamp the workpiece in the tenon jig, face side against the fence.
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5) Set the fence by lining up the center line of the scrap from step 3), above, with a center line scribed on the first work piece. (Only needed if the tenon is to be centered.)
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6) Run the piece through the saw. This cuts the tenon cheeks to the required thickness.
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7) Over to the RAS to trim the shoulders. Note the stop that's set to locate the piece to cut the required length.
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Done. They fit perfectly, every time. (If the tenons are not to be full-width, I'll raise the RAS, cut the side shoulders, and trim the tenon with a backsaw by hand or at the bandsaw. For me, hand trimming is just as fast.)
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
You forgot step 5.5: Remove the spacer piece from the dado set before turning on the saw. ;-)
-Steve
DOH. No WONDER! ;-)Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
LOL...
Excellent demonstration, Mike.Jim
Mike,
Very clear instructions and photos! Well done. I like the trick about putting the spacer between the blades to set the centerline of the tenons. Neat little quirk that saves a lot of marking out and fiddling around.
Thanks for showing this.
I'd suggest proposing an article for FWW. I don't recall seeing anything in the magazine (at least not lately) about using spacers and a dado set to create tenons on the tablesaw. I'm sure a lot of people would like to know how to do it as seamlessly as you've demonstrated. Machined mortise and tenons can be tricky (and labor-intense) if you don't have a system such as yours set up.
Did it take you long to figure out the spacer dimensions when you first got this method going? And do you find that the tenons vary a little in thickness depending on the species of wood - say maple as opposed to poplar?
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
I actually made that photo set to include in a FWW Blog page, if I ever figure out how to put one together. If they want an article, they know how to reach me. LOL!
As for figuring out the spacing, it takes 15-20 minutes, and a bunch of scrap, for each size the first time you do it. After that, it takes me less than a minute per tenon, average, to run a set.
It took years for the lightbulb to go on for the spacer though. I've never seen it anywhere, but I'm a total klutz when it comes to setting the tenon jig fence without it. I get it close, and then end up turning the adjusting knob the wrong direction and have to start over again. DOH! Lexdicsic, I guess. ;-) So one day, I just sat down and thunk on it a bit and came up with this. (I had pretty much resigned myself to foregoing exactly centering the tenon, instead relying on cutting all the faces referenced identically off the fences. Then, it doesn't really matter if the tennon isn't centered, since the mortise is equally offset.)
There is a bit of a trick to making the spacer. I made it by running a piece of hardwood between the blades set up as shown for each tenon size, with the addition of one of the thin plastic shims that came with the dado set to make it just a few thou' wider than the tenon would be so it would fit snugly centered between the blades. Also note that it's long enough to engage the teeth on both edges of the blade so it doesn't wobble.
The tenons don't vary enough to worry about when using various species of wood. The real issue there is tool sharpness of the blade but particularly on the mortise chisel. Dull blades tend to fudge things a bit.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Mike,
Were we separated at birth? <...but I'm a total klutz when it comes to setting the tenon jig fence without it. I get it close, and then end up turning the adjusting knob the wrong direction and have to start over again. DOH! Lexdicsic, I guess. ;-) >
This is exactly what I do! Sometimes I swear that knob switches directions from when I turned it last. I'm very suspicious of that thing.
Again, excellent description of this procedure.
As to getting an article in FWW, the magazine, you need to contact them - they don't contact you. I urge you to do it. This is a nice, time-saving and accurate technique that more people should know about..
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Mike, I had the thought that if you cut a 45 degree bevel on the end of the spacer board that points to the centerline on the tenon that it would be even easier to align the tenoning jig.
I really like your method of cutting tenons!
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
" cut a 45 degree bevel on the end of the spacer board "
That would work too -- and cut properly, the bevel would be self-centering, so even better!Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Mike, I actuallu meant to type "on both edges" so it would create a pointer in the middle of the edge. You did get my idea.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Mike,
Great! I've seen the description of your process several times over the years here on Knots and the pics really say a lot. Thanks for sharing.
I actually made that photo set to include in a FWW Blog page, if I ever figure out how to put one together.
Let me know what you need and it's a done deal.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"Let me know what you need and it's a done deal."
Time, bro' -- I just needs TIME! I've got a hallway to trim out in oak with 10 doorways (one arched, several with multi-part trim & one linen closet door to make), one window & custom base (one piece curved) with walnut shoe (all of which I gotta mill) all around. And the finishing schedule needs about 4 days from sanding to install. Gotta be done in the next two weeks.
Thanks for the offer -- when ya commin' over?
;-)Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Mike,
If you have anything written down/document - send it to me. That's all I need for now. Let me take a shot at it for ye whilst yur so busy.
Thanks for the invite but I'm as busy as you are. But, I have no deadline. You'd actually be doing me a favor - sitting on the back porch with the laptop, having coffee, birds twittering at the feeder. My literary skills could use some fettling anyway.
Know what I mean Fern?
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 5/9/2009 7:23 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob..
My literary skills could use some fettling anyway. I'm from Penn Duch coal miners.. I understand PLAIN English,,, Whatever that is!
i majored in English ans cannot spell or write anything but I passed anyway? Maybe I get across because folks thing I'm ME.. Not just any jerk.. THE Jerk without hate...
By the way what is 'fettling'? I thought it was something like that would be XXX out in this form...
Edited 5/12/2009 9:29 pm by WillGeorge
I always thought "fettling" originated with foo-foo cooks, making a "fine fettle of quiche" the inverse of a "fine kettle of fish".
Will,
It'a like you man, you're always in a fine fettle.
In this case it's what all those folks are into over in the Hand Tools forum here on Knots. Fiddle pharting around sharpening, honing, in search of the gilded edge for their tools. Hold on man, better get on some headgear after that remark.
OK, now whare was I? Oh yeah, it's something BossCrunk abhors.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Mike,I don't even know what to say. That set up is incredible! I did see something like that in a book or magazine, but not executed nearly as nicely! It surely takes any worry about how one would set up for a large number of mortise and tenon joints.One question I have is weather or not you ever have needed longer tenon's than that set up will provide. I can only imagine some type of through tenon. My current project involves 3-3/4 inch through tenons which I imagine is still fine for an 8 inch dado set.
Jointerman,i only get 3 1/4" cut from a 10"" blade....hmmm, sounds like a problem Houston:)
Oh yah... don't know what I was thinking when I said 3-3/4 inches... :)
I think this dado blade will do tenons almost 3" long. If I had to go longer, I'd think long & hard about using a couple of my Forrest 10" blades, but I dunno. I'd certainly have to re-figure the spacers for the different blades.
When making tenons longer than this, or when working with stock over about 4' in length, I usually use the router, with a double fence -- a couple of pieces of ply separated by scraps the same thickness as the workpiece, with the ply working edges conformed on the TS. Slide the workpice through the slot, clamp, and grind away. Not nearly as quick, though. And you do have to be pretty careful to set the fence precisely -- I have a spacer the exact width as the distance from the edge of my router base to the edge of a 1/2" router bit. I use this to set the fence.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Wow thats great! thanks.
Now all I need is a mortising machine. LOL
Chaim
Mike,
Great post!
Very informative, well thought out and great presentation. I agree with others who have suggested you submit this to the magazine for consideration.
Question: Where did you get the spacers? Did you make them yourself?
Thanks,
Frank
"Where did you get the spacers?"
They were made on a drill press with a hole saw. First, I clamped the stock down to the table and drilled the 5/8" arbor hole. Then, without unclamping (so the arbor hole stays centered) cut the disc with the hole saw. These particular spacers of varying thicknesses are made from 1/4" ply, tempered masonite and some galvanized steel sheet leftover from some duct work.Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
MIke,
Great writeup and pictures on making tenons fit the first time, but there is another faster method. Just cut the tenons too small and use Bondo. :-) Who will ever know? We need to work on ways of really speeding up the making of joints that cannot be seen such as M&T, secret dovetails, etc. Indeed, I think a contest is in order here. Mel
PS I gotta cut this out. One of these days someone is going to take me seriously.Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
" Just cut the tenons too small and use Bondo. :-) "
Mel, you done spent too much time at NASA! I know that's how they make space shuttles, but cabinet doors -- that's a whole different thing. ;-)Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PAEverything fits, until you put glue on it.
Just me and I is Penn.. folks.. Just a bit different than most.
My kin from Lansdale? Pa...
That's one of the aggravations that led me to a Woodrat.
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