Replies

1. 
   RW | Feb 20, 2003 12:34am | #1

   What glue should I use?  Ummmm - I really don't have a great answer to this one. I guess even though any glue you probably don't want to visualise eating, if you did, it would be in such miniscule amounts I rather think I wouldn't really concern myself with it. But I'm all in favor of other opinions on this. Best guesses: Waterproof exterior, polyurethane, or (my vote) West epoxy.

   Any concerns about varying expansion/shrinking rates of the various woods? YES

   Use end caps? Breadboard ends are real common, but keep them narrow so you don't chew them up (don't entice people to spend time cutting there), and keep the joinery tight as you can.

   OK just to glue face to face or should I biscuit or spline or?  Up to you. Will it fail? Most do after long enough. I've seen face glued last 20 years. More ammo for the epoxy vote. If you biscuit, you're doing it into the face of a LOT of boards. Have fun clamping it together. Would think you're not gaining much there.

   What finishes can I use  Popular vote seems to go with mineral oil, which ought to be replenished regularly. I kind of think cutting boards and grandmas cast iron skillet share that homey thing with eating part of last nights dinner with tonights. Nothing you do will completely avoid getting particles in the wood. If it's a concern, (aw, the voice of dissent) go get a plastic board or use those disposable cutting sheets on the wood one.

   You can also do a search and turn up a lot more opinionated, semi useful gouge. :)

   " To the noble mind / Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind" - Wm Shakespeare, Hamlet, III,i,100

2. 
   BillHartmann | Feb 20, 2003 12:44am | #2

   Most people use an type II PVA (Tighbond type II) which is water resistant or a polyurethane glue.

   Any finih is food safe after it cures, but the problem with any surface film finsih on a cutting board it is quickly damaged and hard to repair.

   One commonly used finish is regular mineral oil. It does not cure, but it is easy to renew. Some people include a small bottle with the board. Other people melt wax into the mineral oil.

   Also Salad Boil Finish is used.

3. 
   noone51 | Feb 20, 2003 04:49am | #3

   Ah you are in my neck of the woods now.. Gorilla glue is the only glue to use and only use edge grain if end grain is too much work. I just finished one that was 24 x 24 and consumed nearly 22 bf of s4s hard rock sugar maple. The wood was left over from another job So.... no, it was not my urge to waste good wood. The board was laminated with end grain on one side and edge grain on the other it was further encased in two layers of maple casing on all four edges.

   The final weight was around 60 lbs but there is no way it will ever chip, crack or break.

   Edge grain has a tendency to curl knife blades and as a result it makes them dull in short order. End grain will take about twice as long to dull a knife since the grain tends to open when struck and actually straightens knife blades in the process.

   Any good cutting board will cost between 600 - 1200 US and will be all end grain. The finish is always nothing but pure Mineral Oil. 

1. 
   Jimma | Feb 20, 2003 05:45am | #4

   Sorry to burst your bubble, No One, but you can buy end grain maple cutting boards by John Boos (same ones you see on the cooking channel) for a lot less; 18-inch round for $100, 24 X 24 X 4 for $200. Plus, I don't recommend using a "breadboard" end. I do agree on the use of mineral oil as it is inert and, therefor, not an issue for food safety as are the others (all nut oils get rancid and film-forming oils, like linseed oil, are not appropriate). End grain is the only way to go as you point out, but Titebond II is perfectly OK. I've made a bunch of cutting boards and never had a glue failure. Plus, I use cherry or other contrasting wood on the edges in a 2 X 2 pattern without allowing for stability variation and never had a problem. The pieces are too small to cause a problem. I always put wood or soft buttons on the bottom to allow for air flow to keep the boards dry. Mixing different woods in an end-grain glue-up seems to work OK, and I've seen a lot of commercially-made edge grain boards for sale that are mixes of several woods. Can't be too much of a problem.

1. 
   noone51 | Feb 20, 2003 09:51pm | #5

   Jim, out here on the left coast we do get the kind of money I spoke of for cutting boards. These are one of a kind custom boards and represent a form of art in most cases. I agree, you can find end grain cutting boards for much less but not the type I was referring too. I should have been more specific.

   I also agree that Titebond II would probably work just as well depending on the level of care given to the board. I prefer Gorilla glue because it is 100% water proof whereas Titebond II is only water resistant. My thoughts are that eventually someone is going to toss the board in a sink of hot water and leave it there or even worse, run it through a dishwasher. If that were to happen, I'd rather have the Gorilla glue in the joints. Just my preference.

   Thanks for the input.

1. 
   Jimma | Feb 20, 2003 11:21pm | #6

   Oooops! I didn't take into account the left-hand coast factor. Should have known. However, I did check with the A gorilla and he said he didn't know any of them who would volunteer for dishwasher testing.

1. 
   limeyzen | Feb 20, 2003 11:56pm | #7

   Thank you one and all.  Some answers have raised more questions.  It seems that the preference is to use end grain as opposed to my understanding, from workbench construction, edge grain.  I knew face grain is not recommended.  Anyway, since my boards are 8" or so wide unfinished that means there'll be staggered joints throughout.  Is that what you intended?  I assume that the breadboard ends, if I use them would have to be face grain up? Again, thanks.

2. 
   eximreb | Feb 21, 2003 12:09am | #8

   Limezen

   Has any one said that walnut dust & chips are toxic? They are! In solid form, against wet food might be toxic, but do not quote me.

   I also like gorilla glue.

   Good luck

3. 
   noone51 | Feb 21, 2003 12:23am | #9

   Limeyzen, I did one recently that I first glued up edge grain then cross cut, flipped and re-glued so that the endgrain was up. In the first glue up, I created boards 10, 8, 6 and 4 inches wide. I then ran them through my planner to flatten them before I cross cut them. The first cut I made is just a squaring cut, taking only enough off to achieve a nice square edge to start from. Then I setup a stop block on my table saw and cut the remaining board into nice 1 1/4" slices, the width is variable depending upon your application. Watch your fingers and don't try to get that very last piece out of the board, its too dangerous.

   My goal was to create an interlocking effect by staggering the blocks. While this might sound easy, its a real bear to glue up, clamp and keep flat. This was another reason I chose Gorilla glue because it has a longer open time than Titebond II. Getting the thing as flat as possible during the glue up will save you tons of time since once you have all that endgrain pointed up it becomes nearly impossible to plane and sanding is about the only way to get it flat. By the way, sanding all that endgrain is no joy either.

   Best of luck. By the way, cutting boards and butcher blocks are whatever you want them to be. Don't hesitate to get creative. I rarely use breadboard ends but sometimes I case them like a picture frame does a picture to make them appear a little more like a piece of art. It kind of defies the laws of good wood working sense but I've never had a problem, (yet).

4. 
   limeyzen | Feb 21, 2003 01:23am | #10

   Thank you for the detailed response.  Using your approach I'd have to rip the stock to <6" since my jointer is that small but that's not a biggie.  Should I be concerned about the orientation of the end grain in adjacent boards e.g. just as one would in glueling up a table top? Do you glue up in stages or all at once ?(yikes!).  While gathering responses to this post I did search on the site, should've done that  first, and in a previous thread the consensus is that for cutting boards use end grain up.  Among other things it is kinder to knives but, given that your approach would seem to have grain running every which way, I don't understand why.  Thanks again.

5. 
   noone51 | Feb 21, 2003 08:49pm | #14

   When I use 3/4 S4S I rip my stock to 1 1/4 then turn it on edge and glue the faces together to form the initial base stock. I have a 12" planer so I keep the width of the base stock to around 10" max. The extra 1/4" gives me room for planning and flatening which is essential to getting the second glue up to work.

   The length and width of the base stock depends on what you desire for your final dimensions and the equipment you have to work with.

   And yes I glued the one I described earlier all at once and no, it wasn't easy or fun. I'll probably figure out another way next time.

2. 
   Froed | Feb 21, 2003 02:42pm | #11

   Do you have any pics of these artistic cutting boards?  I'd like to see them.

1. 
   noone51 | Feb 21, 2003 08:35pm | #13

   "Do you have any pics of these artistic cutting boards?  I'd like to see them."

   Please don't take offense but the answer is yes and no. I stopped posting pictures of my work when a customer found a copy of the one I designed for her at a swap meet.

2. 
   Froed | Feb 21, 2003 09:01pm | #15

   No offense taken.  I imagine she wanted hers to be the only one of its kind, and was afraid it would be copied.  After all, she did pay for a one-off design, so...

   And given that you make a living out of wood (I don't), it is completely understandable and necessary that you hold your customer's wishes in high regard. 

2. 
   alanplanesaw | Feb 22, 2003 04:40pm | #16

   Any articles on the net/web as to how to make cutting boards using the end grain?  I have never made one and am interested.

   Alan / Planesaw

1. 
   Jimma | Feb 22, 2003 05:57pm | #17

   I'm not aware of any articles, but you might get some value by checking the archives here on Knots. If you'd like more info, I can get back to you later in the day with some suggestions on how to go about it based on my own approach.

4. 
   Erik | Feb 21, 2003 06:06pm | #12

   I've made quite a few serving spoons out of birdseye and curly maple, with a few bowls in mahogany and maple -- all were designed for hard use.  I soaked them in walnut oil before delivering to the clients because I'd heard (and have seen evidence of the fact) that walnut oil polymerizes in the wood over time.  I'm no expert on polymerization, but the finish that I applied to those spoons does not disappear after three or four uses like mineral oil does.  Of the seven or so spoons I've made this way, only one (my wife's, fortunately -- or perhaps not!) showed any signs of dry-cracking.   I don't know if it was the wood, the oil, or the craftsman!

   One word of caution -- some people are allergic to walnut proteins, so make certain that the oil is dry.  For whatever reason, I've found that two weeks is the minimum drying time...

   Erik

5. 
   Clay | Feb 23, 2003 09:14am | #18

   I've made many such boards and I have used Titebond II.  I've made them edge grained too ... they work just fine.  End grain is the ultimate surface wise but not good for boards the size that you are planning.  End grain is more appropriate for thick professional type blocks.  Now I would use Titebond II extend, which is much nicer for all but the smallest jobs than the regular Titebond II.  It spreads easier dries harder holds tighter.  For finishing mineral oil is the standard but I much prefer to use walnut oil.  Walnut oil will dry (though it is in no hurry), mineral oil doesn't.  If I wanted a finish that never dried I would use olive oil in preference to mineral oil.  Face gluing is quite adequate ... I have glued boards as thin as 3/8" (finished size) that way and have one in my kitchen like that now ... it's ten years old and seems as good as new (except for a little surface scarring from use).