Hi, all,
I’m trying to up my hand tool skills, so for practice I used a dozuki to rip a 2 X 4 and hand plane it to proper dimensions, then hand cut dovetails and made a little box. But, I need to make a bottm and insert it into a groove; lacking a router plane, and for that matter a brace-and-bit setup, is there a way that folks can think of to accomplish this? How about a marking guage and chisels, like with a mortise? Is that nuts; is there a better way?
Charlie
I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don’t let anybody tell you different. –K Vonnegut
Replies
Charlie,
Traditionally the tool you'd use is the plough plane. It has an adjustable fence, and a set of cutters that run from 1/8"-3/4" or so. Lacking that, or a tongue and groove set, it looks like the marking guage and chisel might be what you've got to work with. It'll take a while, but as long as we're just farting around....
Cheers,
Ray
Charlie,
This is most easily done with a hand plane, called a plow plane, designed to cut a narrow groove.
These planes were a common item when work was done by hand, but I'm not sure if anyone is making this type of plane today. You could find one used in the width you need or buy a combination plane and set it up for groove cutting.
Plow planes usually had a depth stop but were guided by clamping a straightedge to the stock being grooved. Fancier plow planes and combination planes have an adjustable fence to guide the plane at a set distance from the edge of the stock.
With a simple dovetailed corner box there is a problem however. The grooves cut with a plane must, because of how the plane works, go the full length of the sides and the ends of the grooves will show at the corners. You can space your dovetails so that half of the groove ends are hidden but you will still have to plug or hide the four remaining gaps with molding around the bottom of the box.
There are a few more complicated ways to create dovetailed corners that hide the grooves, you could find out how to make them in a really complete book on traditional joinery.
John W.
CharlieD,
Believe it or not, this is very easily done with a minimum number of tools.
First, define the two edges of the groove. You can use a marking gauge to get the lines, and then deepen them with a knife; or if you have one, a wheel marking gauge will do fine; if you have one, just use a cutting gauge; if you have none of these tools, a straight edge and a marking knife will do. All you're after is a line on each side of the groove that's a little deeper than you get from a marking gauge; you don't need to cut all the way down to the depth of the groove. Naturally, the lines should be as far apart as the width of the chisel you're about to use (DOH!).
If you have a stopped groove, place the chisel on the ends of the groove to be and drive it down a bit. This is to give you room to stop the chisel at the ends of the groove.
After all this, use your chisel to cut the groove. First, make sure you're working "uphill" into the rising grain. Place the chisel between the lines (DOH!) bevel flat on the wood, an inch or so from the far end of the groove. Lift the handle a little, and easily slice out the wood to the stop or to the edge. Do the same thing again, but begin the cut an inch or so farther back. Keep working like this all the way back to the near end. Easy.
The only worry about making a groove this way is to get the right depth. This is just a matter of a little practice AND stopping every so often to check your work.
Cutting grooves this way is fun and easy. A sharp chisel will zip out the wood with remarkably little effort. You're going to like doing this.
Alan
You know, I did almost that exact procedure last night--I was going bevel up; chopped out a V, then shaved it a bit at a time until I got to an open end; then tried to plane it flat, bevel up, flat side down for support. You're right, it was fun and easy. I did struggle to keep a consistent depth, though, and perfectly smooth edges. I agree, though--it's really cool. Thanks for the explanation, I'm sure it'll go better when I follow your instuctions. And yeah--an extremely sharp chisel makes the process a joy.
Charlie
I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Clamp a little piece of scrap across the chisel the right depth back from the edge and use it as a scraper for the last couple of passes - I'm too lazy to make a scraper for this.
CharlieD,
Last year someone posted a picture of a saw that is used for hand cutting sliding dovetails, which, of course, would work well for your situation. The saw looked something like....the leg of a shaker style candle stand with a piece of bandsaw in the fat end and a couple nuts and bolts to make the blade depth adjustable.
BG,
That's called a stair saw; they were originally used to cut the housings for stair treads. Believe it or not, you can still buy one brand new--ECE makes them.
I'm not sure how useful it would be for making grooves though. Because a chisel zips out wood along the grain so easily, and once you have the groove started, even a fraction of an inch deep, the chisel's path won't stray, there's small reason to saw the edges. A fairly shallow knife cut will work as well, and is lots easier to make.
But a stair saw is a great tool for making dadoes that are wide enough, like for shelves. I have a stair saw and use it for dadoes pretty often. To get it started on the right line, I cut a little V groove with a knife for the saw to ride in while it starts to cut. That starts it on exactly the right line. To make the little V groove the first step is to run a knife perpendicular to the stock along the edges of the dado. That step's all you need to do to make a groove.
Alan
Alan,
I re-read your initial post to Charlie and I see what you mean...and I've learned something. I assumed Charlie would have to cut the grove like a dovetail; cutting deeper with the chisel along the guage lines. But your saying, if a grove cut up hill an the initial knife mark is sufficient...
On an unrelated note, kinda, can I ask your opinion? I recently made a small three shelf spice rack out of cherry...with thru mortices and dovetails to support the shelves. I had some chip out on the mortices (about 1/32-1/16" in size) and am wondering if next time it would be wise to precut both sides( or flip half way through like a dovetail to the other side) at the start with at least a marking knife? thanks
BG,
For through tenons I always chop half way through and then complete it from the other side.
To reduce the chances of dinged up edges on a through mortise, I cut a little trench on the show side to keep the mortise chisel properly registered. This keeps the edges and ends from getting dinged up.
It's much like making a groove with a chisel and knife. I give the mortise chisel a light tap at both ends of the mortise to be, and then run a knife along the edges. I then use a chisel to make a one-quarter inch deep--or more--trench on the show side of the mortise. The deeper the trench the better; but I don't get worried about it. Pre-cutting, as it were, the finished sides of the mortise keeps the chisel properly registered and reduces the chances of ruining the appearance.
I usually chop the show side first, and then the other; no reason, that's just me. I stay three eights or a half inch from the ends. This keeps me from levering against the ends and banging them up. Last of all I pare the ends to the line.
Now I'm sure all of this is clear as mud.
Alan--going on too long again
alan,
What your saying is perfectly clear....perhaps because I did not do what you suggested and am disappointed by the outcome, so I'm reading extra hard. I'm just in the habit of marking the face side and working from there...and usually with big mortices a file can clean up the tiny chips. In the future I'll adopt your method. thanks
You can chop them out with a chisel just like letting in butts. Mark the edges with knife, make a series of chops with the appropriate chisel. Drive the chisel with a mallet flat back up and held at a slight angle toward the bevel. Depending on the nature of the stock, generally a chop every 1/4"," side by each" will work. These little chunks will pop right out. This is for getting the waste out quickly. Once the majority is removed carefully pare, bevel down, with the chisel. You can clamp a fence to the chisel as a depth gage. Two sticks of wood with a couple of bolts on each end. It helps to bevel one of the clamp boards at the bevel angle of the chisel. Once you get a feel for it, your chop cuts will almost establish your depth. Controlling the depth and cleaning up is better done with a router plane. The smaller thumb types are the easier to use for me in clean up.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
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