Replies

1. 
   joker | Feb 18, 2009 01:53am | #1

   Hi Jeff,

   I will let you know what I do as I am sure different ones will have their own way of doing it. I currently run my stock through the planer after each cut on the bandsaw. I used to joint the stock on the jointer but I prefer running it through the planer.

   After all veneers are cut I run them through the drum sander or planer depending on what kind of wood it is, some I have had explode when going through the planer to get to the final thickness. I like my veneers to end up a proud 1/16th of an inch.

   I also shoot the edges with a hand plane if I am going to be gluing them together, I havn't been as successfull running them over the jointer but thats another subject.

   Anyway, thats how I do it. If you have never cut your own veneers you might want to practice on some less expensive wood to get your technique down.

    

1. 
   jeff100 | Feb 18, 2009 03:48am | #2

   Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. Seems like a lot of work to plane the stock flat/smooth after each veneer is cut, but that makes the most sense to me...

1. 
   joker | Feb 18, 2009 06:41pm | #3

   By planing/jointing after each cut then I always have a flat side to register off of when cutting the next veneer and/or getting my final demension.

   Good luck and have fun.

2. 
   brad805 | Feb 18, 2009 08:28pm | #4

   I agree with the Joker as to the method, but if you are trying to book match this might not work out as well as you might want.  If you are slip matching or end matching, it will work fine.  By the time you take out the kerf and say another kerf thickness at the jointer, your grain pattern will have changed a bit, and the book match may be off.  I have planed some thin stock, but only do so when I have extra.  Some of the thin stock turns into bits and pieces at the outfeed planer.

   How is the wood for knots?  I have made quite a bit of my own 1/8" veneer for stave core doors and found if you need long veneer stock this becomes a problem.  If you have small projects and can pick and choose the veneer pieces, great.  Keep in mind the veneer co's get the best logs and pay premium prices for it to yield the best stock they can. 

   Brad 

1. 
   joker | Feb 18, 2009 10:26pm | #5

   Hi Brad,

   I absolutely agree about the potential bookmatching problem. The way I accomodate the possible change in grain is to cut the veneers longer than I need then adjust up or down to align the grain and then cut it too final length after all the veneers have been edge glued.

   As a side note; I read from one of Krenov's books that his band saw is so finely tuned that he can take the veneers from the band saw and use them without any further work; I can't do that, wish I could.

   By your post can I assume thats the way you do it or something similar in order not to disturb the grain pattern too much? I'm asking because while I consider myself fairly skilled, I have alot to learn and am always looking for different techniques.

   By the way my name is Perry, I used Joker because, well I just did, no good reason.

1. 
   brad805 | Feb 18, 2009 11:03pm | #7

   I thought maybe you are a Batman fan. 

   I have read about how well some have their BS tuned.  There is a great article in a back issue of FWW for BS setup for veneer cutting, but I am in the same boat.  The carter guides helped a lot, but i still have problems getting good pieces with 8' long stock.

   No, I dont have a better method at all.  If I am book matching I like to order from Certainly Wood.  Their domestics are really not that bad for most project scopes and they are incredible to deal with.

   Brad

1. 
   joker | Feb 18, 2009 11:23pm | #10

   Actually I am a Batman fan and collect various diecast batmobiles. The name is probably more reflective of the fact that I like to joke and kid around, like I said no real good reason.

   When you order your veneers are they thicker like shop sawn or are they like the typical commercial veneer thickness? I have never worked with very thin veneer before.

1. 
   brad805 | Feb 18, 2009 11:42pm | #11

   Now the real question is, do you like to wear makeup like the most recent joker? 

   CW does stock some special thickness veneers (up to 1/8", more commonly 1/16" or 1/24") in domestics, but not in the exotics, designers or burls.  You should order a small pack one day and try to sand through a piece of 1/42".  Its a bit more resilent than you might be thinking.  I am a bit of a convert.  Their veneers open up so many options.  I have three binders full of the woods of the world.  Cutting and handling the thin stock does take some getting used to, but its not that bad.

   Brad

2. 
   joker | Feb 19, 2009 12:19am | #13

   I tried the make up, my wife did not approve. LOL

   Thanks for the info, I will check it out. 1/16th is what I will typically work with so it's definetely something that would interest me.

   Have a great day.

3. 
   danmart | Feb 18, 2009 10:52pm | #6

   Hi Jeff

   Without knowing how wide the boards are that you are cutting or how thick they are from the start it leaves a little to the guess category. All of the methods/techniques mentioned in the earlier posts are solid. I would add a couple of things to consider.

   1. Plane both sides of the board and cut the outside faces to the same thickness. Then I replane both outer edges. Some like to go in sequence to get better matching(bookmatch) combinations. That's for you to decide what's best for you.

   2. I like to use a shooting board under the thinner stuff when running it thru the planer.

   Another reply talked about Krenov and the fine tuned bandsaw he used to get "ready to go veneers" from the saw. I can get real close most of the time but.. not always. After years of searching for the "ultimate bandsaw blade" for cutting high figured hardwoods into veneer, I found the pearl.

   Lenox makes a carbide toothed bandsaw blade for resaw work. I believe its called the Tri-Master. Can't tell what size your bandsaw is?? I don't own the one I used but I got to cut some 16"wide crotch walnut with this blade. I was speechless. Never had a blade of my own that cuts like this. This blade is in a league of it's own. The unique league is also pricey. The blade sells for about 175.00.

   Lenox sells other blades that are much tougher than the stuff I used from Highland. If you are just doing a couple boards here and there the Highland Hardware blades do a nice job but they don't last very long before they are dull. I have used the lesser costly Lenox bimetal bsaw blades and they are worth every penny. With one blade, I cut down more than 500 feet of 12/4 walnut(8-18"wide) down to 4/4 stock. The blade is still going. Additionally, Lenox has resharpened my blades and they are just like new- as you would expect. Its their blade.

   dan

4. 
   cwalvoord | Feb 18, 2009 11:09pm | #8

   As Dan said, using a good resaw blade will minimize the amount of planing and sanding you have to do. I have had good luck with the Laguna Resaw King blade but, like the Lenox blade, they are expensive. It can be resharpened and the carbide teeth do not have any set so the kerf is minimized and the surface is quite smooth. I have been able to get smooth enough cuts that no prep is necessary for the back (glue) side of the veneer and I usually only run the blank through the planer to keep the thickness even every 2 or 3 cuts.

   Hope that helps.
   Chris

5. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Feb 18, 2009 11:20pm | #9

   You've been given the skinny on how but I will ditto dansmart in the use of the Lennox. I use the Lennox bi-metals and they give a relatively smooth cut but last much longer than the Woodslicer I used for years at about the same cost. I have not use the Tri-master carbide but I have seen the cut made by them.

   With regard to Krenov stating he could get a BS to give cuts that do not have to be cleaned up.. I would personally question that statement unless he was doing rustic as I have never seen any blade (or BS) including the Tri-master... Laguna.. Woodslicer.. etc. that gave a cut that IMO did not need "some" cleaning up. So.. with all due respect to Mr. Krenov.. I believe the "good enough too" may have been about 8-10" longer and probably weighed several pounds less than the fish he actually caught. :>)

   Sarge..

1. 
   joker | Feb 19, 2009 12:16am | #12

   Hi,

   Krenov's statment about his sawn veneers is found in "The Impractical Cabinet Maker" Page 36 paragraph 4. He said, in part, "And do not run it through the planer at all. This works very well because my bandsaw is so fine and the thicknesses are even. One can, of course, run sawn veneer through a planer....."

   When I read that I'm like "dang" I wish I could do that or get my band saw to do that.

   I can get a good cut from my band saw but I never thought it was that good so as to feel confident glueing it to a substrate without running it through and planer and/or drum sander.

   And of course I am a big fan of fish stories and have told a few myself, so maybe there is some embelishment on his part as well. I just accepted it as a true. Maybe his cuts were no better than mine or anyone elses with a good blade and a tuned saw and there is no need to have a flat smooth surface for gluing, I don't know as he did not elaborate.

   When I referred to his statement I was only thinking about the glue side, I didn't think to consider that he did no planing/sanding/scraping etc. on the finish side, obviously, by his work, he put a great deal of time into finishing the surface.

   Sorry if my comment took the thought in a different direction.

1. 
   Samson | Feb 19, 2009 12:24am | #14

   Maybe I misunderstand you, and you already are saying this, but I have done inlay where I planed a pice of wood to make a face smooth - then resawed is on the BS - then glued the planed side down, because the inlay was proud, and therefore, I had no need to worry about getting the show face clean and smooth at the outset - I just cleaned it up once on the piece.  Maybe Krenov meant something like that?  I mean with 1/8th thick veneer, you have plenty of meat to mess with after it's glued.

1. 
   joker | Feb 19, 2009 12:39am | #16

   Hi Samson,

   In my reply to Sarge, I mentioned that when I read Krenov's statement, I was only thinking of the glue side and chose to assume that he was as well and not the finish side. But he did say specifically that he did not run them through the planer.

   So after thinking about this, I guess that maybe it is not absolutely necessary to have a flat smooth side for gluing to the substrate? I think I will still go with flat and smooth as I have been doing.

   And I agree with you 1/8 veneers will give you alot of wiggle room, I don't use them that thick, but I have and even thicker and to my knowledge it hasn't been a problem, I like a proud 1/16th as a final thickness.

    

1. 
   Samson | Feb 19, 2009 12:47am | #18

   I still don't think you get me.  Pic attached.

   
2. 
   joker | Feb 19, 2009 12:59am | #19

   Thanks for the pic, I did understand you, sorry if my response did not seem like I did.

    

2. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Feb 19, 2009 12:36am | #15

   If you are referring the the down side only not needing clean up to glue to the substrate... that is a different story. I just did 4 panels 20" x 21" of QSWO on 1/4' MDF substrate from frame panels without cleaning the glue side as the cut was good enough. I just leave the veneer a bit proud of final thickness... attached the 7/16" substrate and veneer total thickness to a 3/4" piece of MDF with double sided carpet tape and ran it through the 20" planer to take of the final 1/*16 of the veneer.

   Maybe he meant the glue side as mentioned... I cannot say?

   Sarge..

1. 
   joker | Feb 19, 2009 12:47am | #17

   I am sure he was only referring to the glue side. So you find that leaving the glue side unfinished is just fine? If thats the case, it changes my thinking a little bit as this would probably speed the process up a little as well as cutting back on waste.

   Thanks for the insight, I will have to try that. Right now I will prep all veneers; edge glue etc and then glue to the substrate. After they are dry I am anly addressing final sanding as they have already been planed/sanded/finished.

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Feb 19, 2009 02:29am | #20

   I do indeed not work the glue side but... I do not use much thin veneer so you better listen to those that do and not me. I use veneer in some cases as these QSWO side panels on a computer desk with frame and panels. Saves much good stock as my normal routine is to use strictly solid wood as I have done for 36 years.

   Just recently I have had to re-think that a bit as the economy and price of good stock has gone up.. up.. up.. But.. at this point the thinnest I have used is 1/8" which is thick enough with a good BS glue side to not clean. If I were using real thin veneer.. I would do a few test just to see if I felt it was or wasn't necessary. That's why I say listen to those that have played the game and familar with that end of the spectrum.

   Good luck...

   Sarge..

   Edited 2/18/2009 6:30 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47

2. 
   joker | Feb 19, 2009 02:53am | #21

   Thanks for the reply. As posted earlier, I use veneers that are a proud 1/16th and plane/drum sand both sides before laying it up. But the thought of maybe not having to finish the glue side was intriguing.

   I will try it sometime to see how it works out.

   Thanks again

3. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Feb 19, 2009 04:56am | #22

   If I had a drum sander (my wife will cringe after 37 years of this will probably be all I really need) I would do more 1/16" or less over. But.. the simple answer is I don't have one so that is that..

   Sarge..

4. 
   joker | Feb 19, 2009 06:48pm | #23

   I bit the bullet a few years ago and got one and I love it. It's a Grizzly, I told my wife it was necessary in order to save mankind.LOL

   Grizzly makes a little baby one that I almost considered but ended up with the 18" open end. It really makes a difference when working with highly figured wood.

   Have a great day!

2. 
   sinsin | Feb 20, 2009 02:34am | #24

   Sarge, I'm new to cutting and gluing veneer but I have a project coming up where veneer may be the way to go. How do you glue veneer - with contact cement or is there some other way?

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Feb 20, 2009 02:40am | #25

   I've been doing mine with a gallon of Tite-bond but.. keep in mind that most do very thin veneer with a clamping system of some nature. I have never done any of the really thin stuff (yet) so hopefully someone will answer that correctly for you. I use sheets of MDF on top after I lay the glue wtih a chip brush of appropriate size and then caul it.

   There are some nice veneer clamping systems I have seen and I may have to look into one as with the economy.. I see more and more veneer on my menu.

   If nobody comes to your aid.. start a thread as they will notice a title about it. For someone to answer here.. they would have to be just reading this thread.

   Good luck...

   Sarge..

2. 
   joker | Feb 20, 2009 06:59pm | #26

   I will agree with Sarge in that I use Tite Bond primarily but have used plastic resin glue when I needed a long open time. I tried all manner of spreading the glue, brush, flat piece of wood, paint roller, etc. What I have come to like the most is using an artist's brayer (i think thats what it's called) you can pick it up at art supply stores.

   I like it because it spreads out the glue in a very nice even thin coat with minmal squeeze out. I do not use a vacuum press because I don't have one but thats really the way to go from everything I have seen and read. I use 2 big and heavy pieces of counter top that has been screwed together so each one is about 2" thick, clamp cauls across and down the middle, let it set for a day and its done.

   Hopefully this helps

3. 
   brad805 | Feb 20, 2009 08:10pm | #27

   PVA is a good choice if you have a proper clamping setup, the piece is not too large and you are using a wood veneer (non-paper backed).  If you do not have a good clamping setup or a vacuum press you might want to use a paperback veneer and contact cement.  I use a vacuum press and many times I use UniBond 800 (urea formaldehye) since it has a much longer open time and you dont have to rush quite as much.  Hot hide glue is another many seem to like.  I suggest you look at Joe Woodworkers site for some info or Darryl Kiels Vacupress site (great DVD's).  Johnathan Bensons, Veneer and Inlay, is a good book.

   Brad