Hello all,
I have a client asking me to build a bunch of very large custom windows. After haveing ongoing wood rot issues with the current windows she wants the most durable product possible.
I know that good primer and paint, as well as designing for water shedding, are the most importaint issues, but she wants the best materials used as well. I am looking at using either African mahogany ($5 a bdft.), or Cyprus ($3 a bdft.). What are your thoughts on choosing the most rot resistant material for exterior windows?
Thanks,
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don’t have. You won’t regret it.
Replies
If she really wants the best, how about a traditional "outdoor" wood, like Honduras mahogany or teak? Other possibilities are western redcedar, Alaskan yellow-cedar, or Spanish cedar. I'll bet that an ipé window would probably last forever, too.
I've been doing a "weather test" on a piece of unfinished Alaskan yellow-cedar; it's been lying in the mud for about five years now, and while it has turned gray and has some surface checks, it seems to be just fine as far as integrity is concerned.
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-Steve
I would use the Cyprus or Ceder. I don't know how rot resistant the African Mahogany is. Ipe is very rot resistant but very heavy and hard on tools. Also I am not sure if it is as stable as the Cyprus. It would be a pain to have the wood warp after it is in the sun for a while.
Good luck
Troy
Almost forgot, post a picture when you are done I have some large windows that need to be replaced and had not thought about making them myself.
Troy
If the budget allows, Honduran mahogany would be ideal. Rot resistant and extremely stable, it's also quite a bit harder than the cedar or cypress options. Mahogany machines easily, to boot.
Hi Mike ,
How old are the ones that need replacing ?
Fir , Redwood , Pine have been used for centuries and have good outdoor properties .
The joinery for traditional wood sash window frames is usually through mortises cope and stick that get pegged often with a steel pin .
a chain mortiser or a end tenoner or other special set up may be required to match the existing ones .
good luck dusty
Someone mentioned western cedar. I have some WC posts that have been in the ground for almost 100 years. Still, I would not recommend it because it is too soft and brittle. Can't be beat for fence posts though. I have just built a barn (woodshop) and upon the recommendation, put in cypress framed windows. White oak might also be a candidate. I have seen white pine go bad in four to five years.
Contemporay style house with EFIS (stucco) exterior. 10 years old. The windows were made by a high end company, but the construction and materials are questionable. I have used cyprus on this sort of job in the past, but the client wants me to make them the best I can. Cope and tennon joinery on the sash, one piece coped jambs and sills.
The question is what wood is most durable for exterior window use. Much of the materials used 100 years ago are no longer availible. I do not want to use Ipe or other overly difficult materials.
Thank yall for the help.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
Zeluck makes a good window indeed. They use Honduras Mahogany as the preferred species. No African. Look to the European window makers (as has Zeluck) for good examples of species and construction methods. We make tilt turns out of H Mahogany timbers and they will last near forever. We use Sugar Pine or H Mahogany for reproduction double hung and casements.Teak will not paint, so is fine if they are to be left "natural", H mahogany is probably the best choice all around. Ipe is very hard, resists paint, and some of the species do not glue well at all (Ipe is a group of similar species sold under the trade name). Cypress is good only if it is tidewater red - all else is no better than the pines. Western Red Cedar is soft and doesn't like paint, Redwood is all spongy and way too soft to hold a joint, unless it is old growth reclaimed. Some folks like White Oak, and it can be a good choice. Keep in mind that those of us that make windows professionally have any number of proprietary and otherwise tricks to make things last longer, deal with water, etc. Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com
Mudman,
In my work life, I am usually building high end custom homes from 2 to 10 million and more. Of the different brands of windows we have used in the past; the ones we have had the least amount of problems with were from a company called Zeluck Windows and Doors. They will usually use red mahogany in their windows. The frames are 2 1/2" thick. You may want to look at their site and get some pointers before you start building.
Good luck
Thank you,
Their site was very helpfull. This is along the lines of what I am going to build. What do you think about using mahogany vs. Cypress for paint grade? Is the Mahogany worth the two fold material cost? Also would you mind if I send you a picture of the job and what I am estimating the job at for your input? I would really apreciate the help.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
I have had really good luck with mahogany out in the weather; some painted and some bare wood. I don't have any experience with cypress.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
African mahogany ($5 a bdft.), WOW! By me it is three times that price for thicker sticks!
Just my opinion.. Take it as you get it. As in free.
What wood you use is not as important as proper flashing when installing it. AND do not forget the 'drip channels'. What I call them.
Almost any wood will rot if it stands in water on end grain.
I would go with the harder wood. But then again I just like working with Mahogany. Never used Cyprus so I cannot say a thing about it.
No expert, but there are many types of so called Mahogany.. Check the web for the best to use..
If I had the job and money was no object I'd use Teak!
Sounds like a fun project.. Good luck and I hope all goes well fro you and your client.
I'm in the throes of replacing rotted windows in our 100 yr. old house. I found a local source for clear cypress, everyone around here recommended it over Southern Yellow Pine. My only problem is the rate it soaks up stain. Had to use a coat of thinned shellac to slow it down. It's strong enough, easy to work, and holds paint well. I've replaced 3 so far without any issues. The first window I replaced was of clear Doug Fir. Can't afford that stuff here in Alabama. OK for one window, but not the whole house.
One thing you can also do is back prime the sash and the back side of the window frames or jambs before you install your new windows, an oil base primer is best. Here on the west coast pine sash and fir jambs will last many years but using an ounce of prevention goes a long way. Genuine Mahogany is a great window material but the added cost may be too mutch for many.
Also if you don't have a good over hang on the house this will just make the maintanance issue more important.
As I am sure you are aware if the windows facing south and or west, getting the full sun, wind and driving rain can be a wood window nightmare. Pacific ocean winter storms are worst here.
TonyCz,
I'm well aware of Pacific storms, I lived in Western Washington most of my life. Grew up in a farmhouse built entirely of Western Red Cedar. I've lived in Alabama about 10 years. I got the Cypress for free, all the "oops" cuts from a local mill. Since window sashes use short pieces, I wasn't concerned about tapered 2X4's or 2X6's. Most of it is salvaged lumber so it's old, tight-grained, and hard. I did have to take the entire sash apart, replace rotted pine, and prime everything - a slow process, but my labor on my own house is pretty cheap.
Mike,
for far less than either pof those woods you can buy white oak which is extremely decay resistant or Black walnut which is the same.. I made my custom window frames out of black walnut and I'm very happy with mine..
Thanks to all who replied. I submitted my bid.... we will see where it goes from here.Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
Sorry for the late reply but i just read your question.
There is a custom wood shop near me which I have done business with on occasion. They build very high-end custom windows and they use both mahogany and Spanish cedar. The owner told me even when the windows are painted they use either of those woods because they are very stable woods (and of course rot resistant).
Hope this helps.
Frank
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