I thought using a crosscut saw would be an enjoyable experience, even if it is quite the workout. Since I don’t own a chainsaw, I thought this would be a good way to start. However, I have found that it is hard to even see progress, even with relatively green wood.
The saw is 36 inches, with a tuttle tooth setup. I assumed the saw was sharp upon arrival, but I have great trouble sawing anything, even a 15 inch diameter log (hardwoods). Is this saw just not sharp or is this really much more work than I anticipated? I am going to try and educate myself on the sharpening process, but I wonder if I am just doing something wrong.
Replies
It sounds to me like you are using a crosscut saw with a relatively fine tooth pattern (think Pax or Disston). These saws typically have a wood handle and a 2-3' steel blade that tapers from about 4-5" at the handle to 2-3" at the tip. These saws are suitable for DRY woods. You mentioned that it's difficult to see any progress even in green woods. For green woods, you would really benefit from a saw with fewer teeth per inch, as saws with many TPI will quickly clog. For green wood, a buck saw is your best bet if a chainsaw is not available. Also, a bandsaw with a blade specifically designed for green wood is a good choice. It has a wider kerf.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
bft,
There is a learning curve to using a misery whip, and I think a one-man x-cut is a bit more difficult than two man version.
If this is an old saw. it's probably safe to assume it has been misused and improperly filed and has insufficient set. One would hope that a new saw would be correctly set up, although green softwood needs more set than dry hardwood.
Some sort of lubrication in use is standard operating procedure. Old-timers used kerosene, sometimes mixed with light oil, in a (previously emptied) pint whiskey bottle- fits in a hip pocket-, with a small groove cut in its cork, so it would drizzle a stream of lube onto the blade. More expeditious nowadays is to spray a shot of WD-40 onto the blade from time to time.
The best advise I can give you is what my old man told me, over and over, "Dammit, boy, let the saw do the work. Quit ridin' it!" (Of course, this was a 2-man saw, he was on the other end, pulling when I was bearing down.) Given the coarseness of the tooth pattern, it tends to dig in and balk, especially in small dia limbs and such (fewer teeth engaged), if you are bearing down.
If you get ESPN on tv, there are loggers' competitions from time to time, one event of which is a one-man sawing contest. Like the chicken that crossed the road, to show the 'possum it could be done, it is inspiring to watch these guys go thru a 18" dia pine log in seconds. edit: their saws are about 6' long, and these guys have BIG arms.
I have some literature on sharpening, which came from US Forest Service. Let me know if you want a reference #.
Ray
Edited 5/22/2008 8:25 am ET by joinerswork
I'm thinking that the raker teeth have been allowed to get too high.. They should be fractionally lower than the rest of the teeth on the saw. In addition to bearing down too hard, this is what may be making it feel 'grabby' and cut slowly.
Edited 5/22/2008 9:31 am ET by TaunTonMacoute
Are you using a conventional handsaw meant for carpentry and cabinetmaking, with 4 to 6 teeth, or more, per inch on the blade, or are you using a saw meant for sawing logs that has large teeth a 1/2" or more apart and 1" deep gullets? A shop handsaw will barely cut green wood. A crosscut saw for logs, properly sharpened, cuts very quickly with little effort, a minute or two at most to cut through a 12" log.
John White
It is indeed a saw meant to cut logs, green or seasoned. It has large teeth, in the tuttle pattern, with raker teeth. It is a new saw I found through a traditional tool supplier.
Maybe it needs lubrication, maybe it needs sharpening, but I have yet to experience anything even close to what those fellows with the large arms achieve on television. I'm not looking to reach that level, just want to cut an occasional log without feeling defeated from the start.
It is 36 inches long, and is not the type of saw meant for shop work.
I googled up a "tuttle" pattern saw and it is certainly a saw for log work. The site I found it on showed a picture of the blade and it looked like the teeth were not well shaped and set, it looked rather crude in fact, just punched out. Proper tooth shape and setting is critical for the saw to work well.John White
I'm guessing a regular pattern might have been the way to go. I'll do some research and try to figure out the set and sharpening of a tuttle pattern.
I don't know anything about sharpening a handsaw, so I guess I have some reading ahead of me.
bft,
I got some literature from the US Forest Service's Missoula Montana library. I found them very helpful in refurbishing an ld two man saw that belonged to my dad (maybe grand-dad).
"Crosscut Saw Manual" 7771-2508-MTDC
"Crosscut Saws description sharpening reconditioning" 1974-799-638/128
Recreation, Fire Tech Tips "Crosscut Saw Tooth-Setting Tool" 0223-2324-MTDC
This last item was written bu Bob Beckley, and his contact info is included in the brochure: email-- [email protected] was printed in 2002, so he may still be around.
I got these thru the forest service's website. It took a bit of searching and a couple emails to someone at the Missoula office, but they were very helpful.
Good luck and happy sawing,
Ray
ps edit: Looks to me like the Tuttle Tooth is same as old fashioned "Champion" pattern.
Edited 5/23/2008 8:26 am ET by joinerswork
I think they're different; one has a raker for every two teeth one a raker for every four teeth. Can't remember which, though.
As somebody else mentioned, I'd bet a lot of dollars that the rakers are too high. This goobs up the cut bigtime.
Edited 5/23/2008 10:54 am ET by AirWoodworker
And I think you're supposed to tap those with a hammer to move them down. You shouldn't just file them off. Cross cut saws are tricky stuff. I never got mine working the way I want it to (basically the way they work in the lumberjack competitions).Adam
Don't know if I ever responded. Those manuals you recommended are great--thank you for the tips. Best information I have found on the subject as of yet. I look forward to putting it to use.
Thanks again.
bf,
You're welcome. I was lucky to inherit a Simonds sharpening kit (hammer, setting anvil, file clamp/ raker jig and spider- along with a set of instructions) with the saw that belonged to my dad. The instructions with the kit assume a level of familiarity that the books provided. Good luck with your sharpening.
Ray
p.s. It is possible to break off a tip of a point (or two) when hammering more set in. damhikt, and dammit
I have two, two man saws sharpened tuttle style. So I went out and miked them up. Blade is .084 thick, tips of cutting teeth are .106 so there is a .022 set per tooth. The rakers are .025 shorter than the points. The rakers have to be sharp too just as any other saw blade that has ATB with raker. Both saws cut well and I never used any lube. Chain saw now ;-) hope that helps.
My Dad and I used to cut Rail Road ties with one of them, so it got many sharpenings and a lot or wipe downs with gasoline to get rid of the creosote. And you think green wood is tough sawing. Ugh.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 5/22/2008 10:20 pm ET by BruceS
Edited 5/22/2008 10:43 pm ET by BruceS
Thanks for taking the measurements. I don't have anything to do that with, but I did eyeball it last week and the raker teeth are clearly shorter than the others, also the saw has some set to it. Looking at the teeth (2 teeth, then raker, and so on), the two adjacent teeth are always slightly different in height. I am not sure if this is normal. Hoping to try and sharpen this one in the coming week. Thanks again for the help.
bt
When you sharpen, the rakers should be flat (think "rip" pattern) and the cutters should be beveled (i.e., "crosscut" pattern).The rakers' purpose is to drag swarf out of the cut, not to cut, being a tad lower than the cutters is normal, otherwise they would drag, slowing cutting and dulling rapidly.Good luck!Leon
I would call a good saw sharpener like Steve Cooke and see if he can help. I don't have experience with saws for green wood but I have a rip and a crosscut saw that Steve sharpened and it was an eye opener when I first put them to wood.
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