Replies

1. 
   Floss | Apr 07, 2007 02:16am | #1

   Phil,

   They can be pretty basic but must have a few specific items:

   Scope of work

   Payment terms

   How to handle change orders

   Schedule/delivery date

   Signatures of both parties and dated

   Signatures for change orders

   I have always favored simple terms and short one page contracts. However each job will determine what is neded to specifically describe what you will provide and how much it will cost.

   J.P.

   http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
1. 
   user-265628 | Apr 07, 2007 03:29am | #2

   JP,Thanks for that, it helps. I've been running my own business for 5 years now and have never had problems. Though the bigger the jobs have gotten, the more awkward it's been for me and my clients at a ceratin transition point. Usually it's between the bidding/design work and the first deposit. I seem to be lagging at closing deals, due to poor contractual language.So I'm working on developing a better contract. I've usually relied on simple language such as "I agree to do this by this time for this price". My work has always spoken for itself so that's been a plus on my side. Reading the Wiki entry on contracts has been helpfull too:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ContractsWhat else has worked for you guys? What is the simplest way to communicate all the neccesary information?Is there a standard format I should use?*kicks myself for sounding like a newbie*

2. 
   rpait | Apr 07, 2007 05:40am | #3

   buy the book Smart Business for Contractors. best money ever spent. a copy of mine  is attached, it is a labor only contract but I use the same format for both types.

   
3. 
   ring | Apr 07, 2007 09:10am | #4

   Phil,

   In addition to what was already written -

   A few years ago I added an appendix to every contract which is a technical spec sheet. Basically, it spells out what materials will be used in each part of the job, what hardware, and what finish. Going over it with the client eliminates misunderstandings that otherwise might arise. ("I was sure the drawer bottoms would be solid wood!", or "You never said the painted panel was MDF!" and so on). Unless the type of work you are doing is very simple, I highly recommend adding a spec sheet like this to every contract.

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

1. 
   user-265628 | Apr 07, 2007 10:06pm | #5

   Thank you everyone, you've all helped put me in the right direction.Thought I'd share my rough outline for the benefit of anyone else that is interetsed.Notice the difference between terms and representations?Terms are guaranteed to be true by the maker, such as the scope of work, materials to be used, etc. Representations are statements of fact NOT guaranteed in truth, but generally made in good faith. This mght include material estimates or labor schedules.

   Edited 4/7/2007 3:09 pm ET by Phil Laysheo

   
1. 
   Floss | Apr 08, 2007 03:16am | #6

   Hi Phil,That will work.Although I just give the client one number for the bid.No break down as to the material and labor cost.If you want to put labor down I would use it as a time and materials type item. Say, if the client needed you to do a little site work while you are on the job.However I just tell folks what my rate is since I also do repair work as well.The most important thing is to keep everything in writing with signatures and dates.Also if you use drawings, have them sign those as well. And make a sample of the finish and cut it in half. You keep half and they keep half.Then there are no I said/You said type problems.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com

1. 
   spring_woodworker | Apr 09, 2007 05:04am | #10

   JP,

   When you say you give one bid price, is that per item of work, or for the whole job?

   Say you were doing a kitchen remodel, would you price out for cabinets, tile, countertops, etc. individually or would you give one price for the entire job as spec'ed out in the contract?

   Rick

2. 
   JeffHeath | Apr 08, 2007 06:48pm | #7

   David's suggestion regarding a technical description of material, hardware and finish is spot on.  Secondary woods like maple or poplar for drawer sides, what thickness plywood, halogen vs. low voltage lighting (in cabinetry), etc... can go a long way to diffusing a potential issue after delivery. 

   "I thought that you said it would be Cherry.  I thought that meant the whole piece would be cherry!"  Believe me, you don't want to deal with that problem with an otherwise happy customer.

   Jeff

1. 
   oldusty | Apr 08, 2007 10:47pm | #8

     Hi Jeff ,             " You said solid Oak , that's plywood in side there " you are safe to list the material type for sure .

              One thing I have learned is after going over the plan with the client and all are in agreement besides the contract I give a copy of the plan or layout to them and have them sign mine .

         I also state in the contract something like " build all cabinets as per my layout "

         This can prevent them bringing out the blueprints and saying that wall unit was to be 12' long not 10 1/2' . When I bring out the copy of the layout with their signature on it suddenly the memory returns to what we agreed on .

          It's hard to give a written description of each and every detail and cabinet on some jobs, although I know a cabinet maker who does give an itemized list .His contracts are like 14 pages long .Not sure if they ever sign the layout or just the contract .

                         regards                    dusty

1. 
   JeffHeath | Apr 09, 2007 03:15am | #9

   Dusty

   My customer's sign my drawings with measurements that I take on them, and they sign my contract, which is a simple, standard agreement.  In my agreement, I layout the materials used.  I've never had a problem arise because I'm very thorough with my explanation of the project, as well as the materials used.  One thing that I have found that my customer's really like is being invited to my shop when the woodworking portion is completed, but before I apply any finishes.  I'd say 80% of my customers take me up on that, and I treat it, literally, as their last chance to make any changes (for a change order fee, of course).  I personally hate finishing, so once the finish is applied, it get's reeeeeeaaaaaaaaalllllll expensive to make changes, if you know what I mean.

   Jeff