Replies

1. 
   PaulC | Jul 24, 2009 04:09am | #1

   I've got the 3 1/4 hp one under a Lee Valley steel tabletop.

   Haven't put that many miles on it yet, but happy so far.

   Amateurs talk strategy, Generals talk logistics.

2. 
   JMartinsky | Jul 24, 2009 04:27am | #2

   Bosch

3. 
   Jimurock | Jul 24, 2009 06:35am | #3

   I have the 3 1/4 in a table attached to my saw, and it's handled everything I've thrown at it with ease.  It's ideal in a table that's open underneath, because you can easily reach the control that allows you to do above-table bit changes.  It's quite a large machine that might be a tight fit in an enclosed cabinet.  I've never used it away from the table -- I have the impression that it might be top-heavy.  The company that owned it went into bankruptcy protection some months ago.  It's said to have been bought by a company that plans to continue production, though there are likely to be delays in ordering parts for the time being.

   Jim

4. 
   9619 | Jul 24, 2009 01:54pm | #4

   Sparky,
   A router is not all that complicated machine. It just spins a cutter. Why not make your own? That way you can optimize on size, shape, speed, power, etc.

   You know, the hand-tool people are always talking about making their own planes, beaders, awls, striking knives, etc. It's about time for the power-tool people to join in and start making their own tools.
   Mel

   Measure your output in smiles per board foot.&stnbsp;

1. 
   habilis | Jul 28, 2009 01:48am | #21

   Mel,
   You've got me scratching my head; buy a workbench, but make your own router. Hmm... ;~?Pete

1. 
   9619 | Jul 28, 2009 02:32am | #22

   Pete,

   You are doing too much thinking.  :-)

   Sometimes when things get dull around here, I just throw in a zinger. 

   Have fun.

   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   RalphBarker | Jul 29, 2009 12:34am | #23

   Man, am I ever glad you clarified that as a zinger. I was just about to use the engine out of my Lamborghini! ;-)

5. 
   danmart | Jul 24, 2009 03:11pm | #5

   What do you want to do with it ? Table mount or hand-held?

1. 
   user-172496 | Jul 24, 2009 05:32pm | #6

   I want to use it as a hand held unit, but as I said in my 1st post I am contemplating, but after I have found out the cost of the lumber, I have put a stop on it.

                                           Lumber in access of $ 2700.00

                                                   Router P.C.          439.00

                                router bits I would need           450.00   ( rough guess )

    

    which amounts to $ 3600.00 and that does not include hardware, or shipping, so I thing I will contemplate for a while yet.

   Thanks to you all for your input.

   Jack

1. 
   danmart | Jul 24, 2009 08:24pm | #7

   sparky it sounds like a big project to me. wow. I have a couple pc routers and a makita 3612c. I like the makita the best for handheld use. Its a very well built router.

   Tyler tools has a new one free ship for 274.00 and a recondition for 179.

   When you get to that point of buying, take a look at these routers they have tons of power, variable speed and the handles are oriented in a way that makes it easier to go left to right when hand operating. Depth adjustments and on-off switch is easy to work.

   Router bits: I am replacing most of my 1st generation/2nd with Whiteside bits these days. I'm not too tough on bits as a rule but the Whitesides are holding up very well for me.

   What are you building with the wood order?

   dan

   Edited 7/24/2009 1:26 pm ET by danmart

2. 
   frenchy | Jul 26, 2009 06:27pm | #18

   Jack,

     The real trick is where will you buy your wood..

     If you walk into a store with your  credit card ready You will pay many many times what that same wood could cost if you shop smart..

     Before wood gets to the lumberyard at least 10 differant people have had a hand on it.  That means every single one of them added their costs and made a profit in doing so..

    For example around here the going price for black walnut is $9.80 a bd. ft.

    I've bought black walnut as cheap as 17 cents a bd.ft.

    Cherry sells for about $1.20 a bd.ft. here.  What do you pay? White oak is .80 cents per bd.ft.

    Hardware?  Check with your local habitat for humanity or building material recyclers. usually sell for 10 cents on the dollar and a lot of it is new stuff that simply wasn't used..

     I can buy thins, (boards less than an inch thick) for $20.00 for about 1000 bd.ft. of any kind of wood..

    IN fact I bought 50,000+ bd.ft. of hardwood to build my house.. included in that was well over 10,000 bd.ft. of black walnut, 20,000 bd.ft. of white oak, cherry, maple, etc..

    That's 50,000 bd.ft for $25,000 or 50 cents a bd.ft. If I hadn't gotten so much maple and cherry my costs would have been even lower!

      Because I bought direct from a sawmill I got everything.. the burls, the fiddleback, the rare, unique, wood that they charge a fortune for. All for the same price..

    Buying wood at retail doesn't make any sense. Not for me..

1. 
   roqqytop | Jul 26, 2009 07:21pm | #19

   where TF do you live?
   portable band saw mills in central PA charge 20 cents per bf for the sawing.

1. 
   frenchy | Jul 26, 2009 08:59pm | #20

   You aren't buying wood from the right sources..

      There is a company in Memphis Tenn. who's sole job is to track the hardwood market.  http://www.hmr.com  If you subscribe to them you'll know what the market prices are for wood..   Mine is a little dated but I can look up market prices around the country and find out what sawmills charge for wood..

    Getting those prices is a little problematic because a some  sawmills will charge near retail for small amounts of wood. However there are a large number of smaller to medium sized sawmills who simply want to sell the wood and don't care particularly who buys it.

      The reason those bandsaw mills charge so much for sawing is because of the nature of their services.  They have to haul that bandsaw  to where the logs are and usually aren't well equipped to efficiently move either the logs or the wood. 

    Fixed sawmills however have much more efficient ways of dealing with both logs and wood.

      What is a major job for a bandsaw mill to do is a few minutes for a sawmill with the right equipment.

    Here's how it really works..

      Smaller and medium sized mills sell wood to pallet makers.  The wood required to meet GMA standards is pretty decent wood. No loose knots, no wane, no decay, or etc.  the last I checked the market prices for such wood (called Mill Run) is 17 cents a bd.ft. 

   On average the normal range of wood is about 15% FAS, 30% select, 20% #1 20%#2 &15% lower grade.. However the going rate to grade wood is about 10 Cents a bd.ft.  Here are the prices per bd.ft. for wood in your area.. 

    Cherry         Hard Maple white   Hard maple unselected  White Oak.

   Mill Run$1.45   $1.15                  $.85                           $.80

    FAS $2.35,      $1.675                $1.385                        $1.135

    #1F$2.34       $1.665                 $1.375                        $1.125

   , #1C$1.33.5   $1.29                   $1.18                           $.61

    #2A .65.5       $.715                   $.61                             $.44

    #2C .34                                     $.39                             $.38

     In addition railroad ties are also a easily sold item. The price a sawmill gets for a tie (before treatment)  is $20.00

    That's for a timber that's 9"x7"x 8&1/2' made of hardwood.  (oak, ash, maple, etc. some hardwoods are not acceptable Basswood, poplar, Hickory, etc.)   that's 44.625 bd.ft for $20.00  or a little less than 45 cents a bd.ft. 

    In addition every sawmill I know of needs turn over.. If some wood is ordered but not picked up the sawmill will usually sell it at a discount rather than have it deteriorate. 

    I've paid  17 cents for black walnut, 15 cents a bd.ft. for 1500 bd.ft. of 5/4 ash, and 10 cents for some  4/4 fiddleback maple that had been forgotten for over a year.  The wood had turned grey/black and there was even a few pieces with mold on them but the boards all cleaned off beautifully with a single pass through the planner.. (there are pictures of one room I did with them if you're interested) 

     One of my greatest finds was a whole white oak tree they decided to toss away because it wouldn't grade well enough to justify the sawing.

     We're talking a monster of a tree  so big that even their 56 inch blade wasn't able to handle it..  the few cuts they did make though got me as excited as a wood worker can be.

     It was solid Burl! Just like the dash board of a Rolls Royce!

      Right down to the heart center!  I got 917 bd.ft. of burl (some planks as wide as 22 inches) plus nine 6"x6" timbers 10 feet long. That in spite of the waste they had because they couldn't saw the whole thing..

    I was so excited I paid them .40 cents a bd.ft. for wood they were going to landfill!

2. 
   roqqytop | Jul 30, 2009 12:36am | #24

   quite frankly,
   I think you R F O S.
   C B U Y R!

3. 
   frenchy | Jul 30, 2009 02:45pm | #25

   I'll ignore the insult.  (in the first one) and I don't know what the second one is..

     However what do you base your thoughts on? 

    Did you check the resource I gave?  Have you looked at my home?   Talked to any of the many people I had come out here?   Looked at my recepts? 

     Since apparently none of that has happened I'll assume that you don't accept it because it's outside of your experiance.  That's too bad..

    I gave you details on how to find such prices, Kinda like showing you where the gold is and you're too lazy to dig for it..

4. 
   WillGeorge | Aug 04, 2009 09:31pm | #27

   Frenchy.. Digging for Gold could me a few miles under the planet! But I got your thoughts,,,

5. 
   EdHarrow | Jul 31, 2009 06:03am | #26

   I've the 2.25 Triton on a table attached to my table saw.  It's not had a ton of use, but it's done all I've asked it to do.  My only real complaint is the location of the 'up and down' adjuster.  As I had to mount the router in the table, the router table fence is usually in the way of the crank supplied by Triton.  A longer 'shaft' on the crank would nearly completely cure that complaint.  The dust collection port is a minor irritation.  The current financial situation would make me nervous re purchasing another.

   I also have a Festool, forget the model number.  It's nice, LOL, but it ought to be.

6. 
   sapwood | Jul 25, 2009 03:40am | #8

   Go straight to the best: Festool. I've got a OF1400.. it is one sweet machine. Dust control, depth control, ease of bit changing.... all are great. Yes, it's more expensive, but worth it.

   I've also got porter cable, rockwell, bosch, makita. All pale in comparison.

7. 
   Don01 | Jul 25, 2009 04:49am | #9

   Jack,
   I have the Trition 2 1/4 HP unit. Haven't thrown a lot at it, but it works. I think all of the majors make a decent machine. You have to hold each one to see how it feels in your hands.
   I have a little 9 amp B&D that I keep around for hand held work. I try to do most work on the table.
   Pat Warner's site has some good information on routers.
   http://www.patwarner.com/

   Don

8. 
   bones | Jul 25, 2009 06:48pm | #10

   Will my advice depends on the use and your budget.  I have several routers from the old craftsman that was my first but sits on a shelf, to a PC 690 that is great in a fixed format light and an old work horse and you can get cheap.  Matter of fact I got it free with the purchase of my drum sander.  The PC 894 wich is a good combo pack with a motor and fixed and plunge base.  I also have the PC 7518 horse of a router in my router table. I would say the caddilac is the festool of1400 I just recently acquired but its at the top of the $$ chart. 

   If you are to do just handheld work need a budget router I'd go with the old 690.  If you have the need for plunge and fixed and budget is a concern, the 8 series PC or the bosch (my brother has that).  If you want an all around best with dc their is no other but the festool IMO.  I use it pretty much now.  One word of caution, if you plan on big bits get a big router and use it in a table not free hand.  Good luck

   I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.
   George Burns

1. 
   user-172496 | Jul 25, 2009 11:45pm | #11

   Well bones, I thank you for your reply. I do have a big Craftsman which I use under my tablesaw, I have had this for ever. I want something lighter to do had work, I have been looking at the P.C. model 890 along with the model 8931 plunge attachment and then I also looked at the P.C. 690LR . I think this is the one you were talking about.

   You have so many routers you MUST be an expert on them.

   Thanks for the reply.

   Jack

    

1. 
   Jimurock | Jul 26, 2009 02:55am | #12

   Sparky, if you change your mind about buying right now, Busy Bee has the PC 895PK kit -- fixed and plunge -- on sale for $349 Canadian until Aug. 15th.  http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=895PK

   Jim

2. 
   bones | Jul 26, 2009 02:58am | #13

   "You have so many routers you MUST be an expert on them.

   Thanks for the reply."

   Not hardley but thanks.  I've just collected routers over the years.  The craftsman I have is an old cast iron version thats very good.  If they'd kept those standards they'd been better off today.  If balance weight and overall versatility, then the festool is the tool. Nothing compares, but the cost is high.  The 890 is a good router, but the dc is awful and its a bit topheavy but very good at the cutting end.   I really like the 690 for light work. It's easy to grip works like a horse and is the right size.  The on/off is in a bad place but a good tool.  If I only had one, the of1400 would be it.  Take care.  I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.George Burns

3. 
   spotcheck | Jul 26, 2009 04:54pm | #16

   P-C 690 family is great.  Seems bullet proof after 12+ yrs.  Mine is older 6902 version.  Am working on a plausible lie as to why I need a new one.  On-off is awkward, as another poster said.  If that is an issue, you can use the D-handle base with trigger in many applicaitons.

   I also have a Makita 3707 lam trimmer for edge roundover, lightweight stuff like that.  The Makita's height adjustment really sucks, but that doesn't get in the way for the work I do, and the rest of it is great - I like the built-in LED headlights - very helpful when I hog out for butterfly keys, etc.

4. 
   RalphBarker | Jul 26, 2009 06:07pm | #17

   FWIW, I'm also a fan of the PC 690 series for hand-held work. Although the location of the on/off switch isn't always convenient, I like the balance and versatility of this model. I have a pair of the variable speed models with two fixed bases and one plunge. Having the pair is convenient for doing through dovetails - one for the DT bit for tails, and one for the straight bit to do pins.I only have 7 or 8 routers, though, including one original, art-deco-ish, PC model 100, like new in box. Which raises another point. Since models change over time, and parts and accessories evaporate, it's wise to consider getting all of the desired accessories and bases (and spare collets, perhaps) near the time of the original purchase. (I bought the 690s because I couldn't find a plunge base for my earlier models.)

   Edited 7/26/2009 11:13 am by RalphBarker

9. 
   heartwould | Jul 26, 2009 03:07am | #14

   Sparky, it sounds as though you have a major project in mind!  Is the $2,700 cost for wood because of the species or your supplier?  That's a bunch of money unless you're talking about birdseye maple or cherry or some exotic wood.  Even then the cost seems pretty high unless you are building something quite large.

   As far as routers go, I've had a few.  My "big hoss" is a PC 3 1/2 hp plunge router that will take about anything that the cutter can possibly cut.  However, for various projects I have used several routers set up in combination depending on how many bit profiles are required to get the job done.  (Btb, only one of my routers, a Freud, was purchased brand new).

   Look around for deals on routers because they are available all of the time.  See if the seller will allow you to give it a whirl before you lay down your hard earned dollars.  You can get a pretty good router for not too much money--often with bits.

   I would also suggest looking around for wood sources.  See of there is a sawyer around or, as above, a woodworker who has decided to get out of the business/hobby and has wood to get rid of.  Taking the time to shop around can really pay off!

10. 
    Cincinnati | Jul 26, 2009 03:51pm | #15

    Sparky

    Search this forum and you will get plenty of opinions. I would stay away from it.

    Triton is in bankruptcy. I was at Woodcraft on Thursday. They had 2 on the shelf and said they can't get anymore.

    I have the 2-1/4 HP Triton. It broke in the first hour of operation. Parts have been on order since March.

    I bought a Rockwell 5625 in the mean time. I am thrilled with it.

    If I get the replacement part (internal gear), I will sell my Triton on eBay.

    Greg

    •••••••

    Exo 35:30-35