As a person who is a woodworking and an investor in rental properties, Im looking for any info on co-op shops where woodworkers share shop space for a fee. I would like to hear from folks who have experienced this type of shop enviroment. I have a shop building (4600 sf) I want to buy to use a corner for myself but also need to share the cost with others. I have read articles on artist/woodworkers who share space and some of the bigger equipment such as tables saws, band saws, etc.
Some questions I have are; how is the agreement structured between owner and leasees. What equipment has been supplied.
Thank you for your input.
Kevin
Replies
I don't know anything about this, so can't contribute.
But I am curious to know what insurance /liability ramifications there might be. Have you yet discussed this issue with your insurance provider?
No, I have not. Good point to check out. I know the present owner has showed me what he is paying for insurance which is $2900/year for this building plus another next door I would be buying as a package.
The building I would be using had an industrial metal stress relieving business which used this building as their home shop but did most work off location. They just moved out. The front portion of this building is leased to a sign company and the other building is leased to an auto repair shop. So I don't see this as too different from my proposed use.
As a co-op, I would not be leasing out to hobbyist or tinkerers, only those who are working wood as a profession. Hoping to cut down on the risk of injury and suit.
Do you have other concerns?
Over the years I have read about various coop shops, so I would imagine there must be a way to protect yourself from liability issues. Perhaps a simple waiver might do the trick.I visited a friend some years ago who lived in Sun City West (Phoenix). They had a woodworking shop that was part of the community rec center, and could be used by any resident for a small monthly fee. They did have a full time monitor (a volunteer) who answered questions and kept an eye on things. So if the Del Webb Corp found a way around liability, I'm sure you could as well.
:-) Del Webb found a way around it just like Farnsworth did/does (on the Eastern side of the Valley of the Sun). They sold everything to the HOA.--Steve
http://www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/
Penury is the Mother of Invention
When I used to rent industrial space for my woodworking busines, the two no-no's from the firedept(they have a say so in zoning in some areas) and insurance companies was no woodorking business in the same building(even next door) as welding and automotive shops. The reason was because of sparks/fire hazard.
Check in advance with every zoning/fire dept, among with every agency that might make your live miserable at some later date.
There used to be one in my neck of the woods in western mass and it was professionals who had access to a community machine room. I don't know much about the fees and such but I did hear a lot about how some folks didn't take care of stuff as well as others would have liked. I think you will need a dedicated manintenance person to keep things tumed up to the highest level of precision. Nothing more frustrating than going in to use a jointer and the blades are all dinged up because someone just ran a batch of teak. I think you will have to get very like minded people or it just will be a source of friction.
Anyway the folks who initially set it up got a thriving business going and as members were lost they didn't take on any new co-op members. I hear about some co-op type shops in NY and Boston. You might check out the http://www.furnituresociety.org for leads
About 30 yrs ago, several of us ex-Navy types looked into setting up an operation similar to the 'hobby shops' we had used while in the Navy for auto repair, woodworking, etc, etc. The idea was to set up shops with good equipment and sell memberships. Everything sounded good until one spoilsport started asking about liability insurance. That killed the idea almost instantly and I can't remember hearing of anything like that ever starting up.
Most woodworking tools are so low in cost relative to income that there is no benefit in a co-op.
On the other hand there may be a shortage of buildable space in your area. In which case it may be worth someone's while to rent your space.
Insurance is easy to obtain, you might have to set up a business where each member of the co-op is a member of the business.
doesn't this make each person a business owner. What happens when the ex-wife(ex-husband) wants their share of the business???
In articles where I have read craftsmen commit about Co-op's, they talk about the benefits of working independently but having other craftsman around to bounce ideas off of or to help move a finished piece, etc.
It appeared everyone specializes on certain produces, maybe one does chairs, another conference tables, etc.
The cost savings is not so much the tools (even though quality industrial tools are expensive) as it is the shop space. This building I'm looking at leases for $1300/mo. In some areas that's cheap.
Kevin
I used to know a fellow who owned several metal working machines. He kept them in shops owned by others. His deal was he would work on his own jobs at night and the shopowners could use the machines during the day. He also gave the shopowners a bit of work from time to time. I don't think anyone kept books. I think everyone enjoyed the other's company.Perhaps you should look for wood workers who enjoy your company during the day and let things evolve.I suspect that paying rent will be a hard sell for most established wood workers.
Dear Kevin,
A book that might be of interest to you: "The Art Studio/Loft Manual" by Eric Rudd. This book was recommended to me by my instructor at North Bennet Street, but I must say that I haven't read through it thoroughly. It has information about all the legal matters involved, and what to look for (or look out for) when trying to find a space for your purpose, and a lot about the different expenses involved.
-Molly
Thanks for the tip Molly. Sounds like this would help me out.
Kevin
Stubbs-
There was a coop shop near where I live about 10 years ago. I checked into it. The guy who owned it purchased all the equipment. He had 3 cabinet saws, 2 jointers, 2 bandsaws, etc..... Even had a hvlp finish room, but you had to have your own spray gun. Your monthly fee was for 5 hours of machine and bench time per week. I passed on the idea, and built my first shop. I ran into the guy about 5 years ago at a woodworking show, and asked him why he closed it. He said that he couldn't make any money at it, and he spent so much time tuning and sharpening tools, his work was constantly getting interrupted. I don't think people will take care of tools and machines unless they have a $$$ vested interest in them.
JC
Check out http://www.newcityarts.com located in downtown Seattle. Took a class with Tom Lee, pretty cool set-up.
Jim
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