Replies

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 15, 2009 05:16am | #1

   Cherry will darken.  How much it darken mostly depends on where the particular tree grew.  Boiled linseed oil brings out the figure the most, but it also contributes to darkening.  Fundamentally, "popping" the grain, and keeping it light are opposing goals.  For example, a clear waterborne acyrlic will darken less than anything except just wax.  But, it will do nothing to pop the grain, and for myself I would think it would leave the cherry lifeless and dull. 

   You mention wanting a durable finish.  Durable comes in many flavors.  How are these cabinets to be used?  What sheen do you want--matte, satin, semi-gloss, or gloss?  Do you have spray equipment and the facilities to use finishes with explosive or toxic solvents? 

   You also mention Brush Oil.  That's one I haven't heard of.  There is a product, apparently an oil/varnish mix of some sort called Bush Oil.  The company that makes it appears not to have a web site so it remains pretty mysterious.   I wouldn't recommend using stealth products. 

1. 
   saschafer | Jun 15, 2009 05:30am | #2

   According to a post I read elsewhere, Bush Oil is a mix of BLO, tung oil and polyurethane varnish. Which, if I recall correctly, is the same thing as Sam Maloof's finish.-Steve

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 15, 2009 06:43am | #3

   Yep, I saw that one, and another forum post where a person cited an MSDS that showed 35% linseed oil, 10% urethane, with the rest solvents and driers.  But I haven't seen a MSDS myself. 

   Frankly, as a general policy, I'm dubious of what is almost certainly an oil/varnish mix that claims really special results.  There are only two oils that could be used, tung and linseed, and unless the varnish component is quite large, the particular varnish makes little difference since the finish can still never be allowed to build a film on the surface because the oil content would make it too soft. 

   And, it really depends on ultimate use of the cabinet.  I'd think oil/varnish mixes wouldn't hold up well for kitchen and bath cabinets, but there are plenty of other possibilities. 

2. 
   oldusty | Jun 15, 2009 05:06pm | #4

   m ,

            There is no mystery or secret on how to finish Cherry .

        As has been said , much of an answer depends on how you apply , spray , brush etc,.

          Lacquers work well on Cherry but to answer your question on durability the toughest finish that still allows the figure and grain to show at it's utmost would have to be a post cat clear finish .

         You can actually wash post cat with lacquer thinner and it won't attack the finish , tough stuff .

        pictures of Cherry kitchen cab with post cat

                     good luck and regards        dusty

   
1. 
   alanplanesaw | Jun 16, 2009 03:40am | #5

   Dusty,

   I need some translation.  What is "wash post cat?"

   Alan

1. 
   saschafer | Jun 16, 2009 04:27am | #6

   Translation: "You can actually wash post-catalyzed lacquer with lacquer thinner..."

   -Steve

    

2. 
   oldusty | Jun 16, 2009 08:42am | #9

     Sorry Alan ,

           Steve some how understood my words , I was only stating that the post catalyzed finishes are much tougher then lacquers and shellacs and such .

          regards    dusty

2. 
   jphelps7 | Jun 16, 2009 06:11am | #7

   What is a post cat finish?

   Thanks, 

   JP

    

1. 
   oldusty | Jun 16, 2009 08:39am | #8

   A post catalyzed finish has an agent added much like resin has catalyst added to harden , both have a short life after mixing.The post cat must be used in like 24 hours after mixing .

        The material can be applied the same as lacquer and has much the same characteristics and working properties .

            regards     dusty

1. 
   mmur | Jun 17, 2009 01:58am | #10

   The cabinets that you built and finished are exactly the finish I'm looking for. As others questioned "Post Cat. Finish?  Is this something I can buy at Wood Craft? And you mentioned that it's added to the finish coat with a poly? Would a poly. and wax combo have the same results? I do not have access to a spray area and would be applied by brush or wipe. 

   The cabinets I'm in the process of building are going to be used in the kitchen. Brush Oil is the name of the product from Brush Product Inc. Amsterdam NY. It says on the can Petroleum Distillates. THANKS for everyone's input I really appreciate it.

1. 
   oldusty | Jun 17, 2009 04:19am | #11

   mm,

        No poly anything was used or mentioned by me , the hardening agent as in a catalyst is added to a post catalyzed finish before applying not just to the last coat .

      There is also pre catalyzed products called pre cat that come already mixed and have a longer shelf life or time to use .Most of the lacquers I use are pre cat lacquers .

       Lacquers have petroleum distillates in them , and thats why the price of solvent based finishes and many paints as well have sky rocketed in price the last few years .

      Poly and wax will not  give you the same finish as a post cat  but may look similar . I don't use either and am not an experienced with  them .

        Not sure what  Woodcraft sells , I would suggest if possible contact the local paint store in your area and ask a few questions . To me dealing with a local source is a better way to go especially on finish products when you need more in a hurry , been there and got the T shirt .

           regards         dusty, boxmaker

     

2. 
   sapwood | Jun 17, 2009 04:32am | #12

   Unless your finish has some sort of UV blocker in it that I don't know about..... can you post an "after" picture of those cabinets to show the OP what natural darkening will do to the color?

3. 
   oldusty | Jun 17, 2009 06:31am | #14

     Hiya Sapwood ,

                I said nothing about the natural mellowing or darkening of Cherry being less with any particular finish .

        My comment was in response to the OP asking about a durable product , in my almost 35 years of on the job spraying experience I have found the pre cat super and the post cat imo looks the same but is stronger , mind you the newer Rudd brand pre cat called Dura Cat was the smoothest most perfect finish I have  ever layed out .The pre cat is much more durable then the old school lacquers .

           even though the materials are mostly water White and crystal clear and non Yellowing ,the wood will still change .

       There are certainly other tough finishes but the OP asked without any parameters .I am always hoping  to learn more up to date info if anybody cares to share but so far these finishes have proved superior for commercial applications in general .

               I know of no sure fire tricks to stop the Oxidation or mellowing of Cherry or for that matter there is no sure way to stop  wood from Yellowing or discoloring from the UV rays.

      I totally agree with Steve , Sherwin Williams is the go to place if possible for post cat needs .

          regards           dusty

4. 
   sapwood | Jun 17, 2009 07:12pm | #15

   In his original post, the op intimated that he wants a not too dark look to the cherry. Your photo looks to me to be of newly installed cabinets and time hasn't yet had its chance to work the darkening magic so many of us love about cherry. When he reacted strongly to your work, I was afraid that he might assume that a pre or post cat lacquer would always give that nice pink look. Thus my question to you. A caution from yourself to him might go a bit further than one from another. I was never in any doubt that you know the darkening properties of cherry.

5. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 17, 2009 05:04am | #13

   Post Catalyzed Lacquer is not something you will find at Woodcraft or other consumer oriented stores.  Post Catalyzed means the catalyzer is added separately by the user, after purchase and within a relatively narrow window of time before use.  The commercial type stores of Sherwin Williams would be a source, as would MC Cambell distributors.  These are spray only finishes, and if you look at the Technical Data Sheets and the MSDS sheet on line from those two (related) companies on line, you can find out a lot about these materials, and the protection for operators and location that are required.  These pretty much require a real spray booth and protective breathing equipment.  This is not a variation on consumer grade polyurethane varnish.