I’m stepping over from BreakTime to ask a question about furniture repair.
This rocker was purchased at an auction and I have been asked to refurbish it.
After disassembly it appears that the center of the backrest has been “cobbled” together with some left over parts & pieces to cover up missing and damaged conditions.
I have two questions……….
What did the rocker actually look like when it was “new”?
And, what would anyone suggest as a way to rebuild the damaged top “carved head rest” and the structure in between there and the lower crossbar (Which does not match the style of the upper carving!)? Maybe even a remake of the lower crossbar.
Your advice, please. And hopefully there will be little discussion about “firewood”!
Replies
BUMP.....I need some help, please!
............Iron Heleix
Let me start by saying that chairs scare the bejeezus out of me and have very little experience repairing them. The reason I say that is that if a part fails and someone gets hurt I just don't want to go there.
That being said are you getting paid for the refurb? What are the intentions of the owner? Are there any markings on it that indicate who made it? Replacement parts may be difficult to find and from the pics it appears that carving skills may be needed.
As to what it looked like when new that would be a total guess on my part, it having been already repaired. Some of the damaged parts look to be carved; can you do carving? Melding the repaired parts into the existing carving(s) would be a challenge.
Hopefully someone with the requisite skills will chime in. In the meantime I will search FWW for any help.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Kidderville,Yes I'm getting paid.....in "Special Services Vouchers"!Of which I already have some hundreds if not thousands that have metamorphosed into "rainchecks" that have expired redemption dates. 42 years x 52 weeks =2184 promises.I can do some carving.Thanks for the opinions and the bump!.............Iron Helix
Good one,
Glad to see you got some good responses; wish I could have been of more help to you. Do let us know how you make out and fire away with any questions.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,Judy & I have managed to rework a couple of chairs or piece of furniture per year.
I repair and clean/strip, Judy canes and we jointly do some upholstered seats and backs.
It takes a while to do one as each project has to fit into the "spare time' of our daily grind.Thanks for the assist!..............Iron Helix
I read your post, and honestly don't think I can help much. I am unfamiliar with what the chair would like new, I gather you did not find any makers marks on it? I imagine several others have read your post as well, and don't have a great idea either. A lot of guys seem to be on vacation, of all the nerve.
Lots of strong opinions on repair work on chairs, degrading the value of the piece by doing new repairs etc. Fixing the missing pieces on the head rest is a difficult one. It was steam bent, and looks like white oak, so it created stress and a fracture line. Fixing that and matching the carving will be very difficult, I tried it once on an old chair, and they used machine system to carve with. It is hard to duplicate.
You mention you thought the back rest was not original, but to my eye, I could not see why you thought so? The carved back rest looked fine to me, it was common on a lot of chairs to have more ornate and carved head rests than other parts. It is the most visual part of the chair at eye level, and that would help sell the chair.
What does your client want the chair to look like? Do they want you to remove all the finish work, and restain and rebuild it? Or are you supposed to clean and touch up the chair?
Fixing loose joints, by reboring holes to fresh wood, adding material to the tenons and reglueing will fix the mechanical connections.
Sorry I could be of such little help, it is a nice alligator you got a hold of....
AZMO <!----><!----><!---->
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AZMO,No maker's marks. Your comments on the method of back board manufacture ring true with what I have observed. I feel that the center backing piece is not original is that the material is "oil cloth", not leather, and that the upholstery work lapped over and was nailed into the top & bottom back rails. Also the carving designs, methods, and appearance of the upper back rail is very different than the bottom rail.
The upholstered section's wooden substructure is very poorly fitted to both the top & bottom and the upholstery covered the broken sections of the rails. Ten dollars at auction....20 dollars of denatured alcohol, steel wool and nitrile gloves, plus 15 or so hours of labor. The chair has been totally disassembled and I have begun to repair and reassemble.Thanks for your comments....and yes, the moniker of "alligator" fits!.......Iron Helix
Well shoot us a Pic of what it ends up like! Preferably with someone sitting in it enjoying a small beverage.... Good Luck! <!----><!----><!---->
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IH,
All really depends on what you and the man with the wallet want to end up with as far as your extent to take the piece .Whether or not there is any significant historical or otherwise value to destroy possibly should dictate the course of action .
Try looking in antique furniture books to identify the style.
At first glance the chair looked like a press back done in a factory , sort of embossed , but some does look like deeper carving , it is hard from the pictures.
My feeling is the chair may not have had the center upholstered part originally , the carving is too nice and ornate to be covered with upholstery imo , other then that it looks right .The lower crossbar is prolly original.
If you are going to cover it again the repairs may not show .
Slice away the damaged wood and replace and reproduce the carvings
It is not a total basket case , I know a refinisher that can build up the area and color it and grain it to look like the rest , so there are many ways to go .
regards from Oregon dusty
Dusty,I do not think this chair has any historical or other value....just a neat old chair that cleaned up with a nice patina.I will not replace the center section of the back as per the photo think your suggestion to cut away the damaged area and install replacement wood to be carved.Do you have any names for the furniture books?Thanks for you encouragement on the "slice away" business.............Iron Helix
I H ,
Take a look at an old Sears type catalog , Antique value guides often identify different styles and eras .Try a library first off , second hand book stores have treasures sitting waiting to go . I've seen lists of like 100 popular chairs of the past er sumthun .
Your welcome , and watch out for that joinerswork , yeah he's a Injun ridin biker type ,
but he is one of the finest true reproduction and restoration experts in this country in real life , Ray also has been blessed with a beautiful sense of humor that seems to chime in at that just right time now and then .
regards from Oregon dusty
Iron,
Looks mostly original to me.
Patch out missing wood with matching species and grain, then carve to match. Reassemble with hide glue. Any loose joints ought to be tightened by adding veneer or slips of wood. If you are re-finishing, strip, then color your patches to match the color of the old wood. It may be a challenge to find an upholsterer to match the button and pleat pattern in the old back, and if you do, it will not come cheap. If you are charging for your time, the repairs/upholstery may well cost more than the chair is worth, it is a factory made piece from early 20th century, maybe a step up from what Sears and Roebuck sold.
Ray
Joiner,No upholstery on the rework. I had not thought about the hide glue aspect....thanks!............Iron Helix
Iron,
If it doesn't appear to have value...............
but it does have great details in a very porous wood... why not paint it and possibly guild part of the carvings?
You might be best off using contemporary fabrics and finishes, it is possible it would look better than restoring.
Best,
TT
TTThose ideas would be a "last straw" effort because I really do get into the "wood look".
Although I will have to admit that there have been occasions where paint was my choice.The alligator wrestle continues......Iron Helix
Understand the passion!
Good luck and please post a picture!
TT
My impression is that is all original, except for possibly the upholstery having been replaced at some point. The carving is actually "pressed" in not carved. It was a mass produced item and the chances of it being of some significant value are slim to none, especially in its badly deteriorated condition.
With all of the damage to the upper and lower back rails, the joints are badly broken, the chair is going to be a bear to fix, I wouldn't take on the job unless it were very much a labor of love. The best fix would probably be to use a 1/2" thick plywood panel to replace the shield shaped center, rabbeting it into the pressed top and bottom rails. Fortunately the replacement upholstery will cover much of the damage.
You could rebuild the "carved" areas with a Bondo type of compound shaping it roughly when soft and then carving it to the final shape when set. The easiest way to get a match would be to paint the chair afterward but a faux finish carefully done would make a near invisible match if you wanted the wood to show.
John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998-2007
John,I really never considered the rocker to have any great value except to provide a challenge and hopefully a decent outcome. One of the kids will probably latch onto it as being a "cool old chair"! The only attached value is that "Dad did It!"Thanks for the additional input. The ideas and comments about this project from the crew at Knots have caused me to take a moment and rethink what I will do with this chair.When/If I finish this chair I'll try to remember that I owe Knots a photo report.................Iron Helix
IH,
When/If I finish this chair
Now you KNOW what yer gonna do so just skip the If part, okey dokey?
:-)
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 8/14/2009 7:18 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Kidder,OK you win!
Should have said..."eventually--one way or another, stain or paint, refurbished or cobbled" :>)..........Iron Helix
IH,
If you get a chance you might want to get some inputs from Peter Gedrys on the finishing end. He's an expert on finishing and can make any wood look like any other wood.
By the by how many vouchas is this project good for? HAH!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
It is not a question of how many vouchers, but how redeemable..............Iron Helix
Kidder, There was a neat article on stain & finish by Peter Gedrys in this months Fine Homebuilding. I copied it and hung the copy on the now partially (dry fitted) assembled chair in the shop..........Iron Helix
Haven't had a chance to read it yet but I will. Sounds like you'tr making good progress, any pics?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
You didn't buy a chair you bought yourself a teacher. You can learn a whole lot by repairing this chair. Don't be intimidated. Go for it!
You didn't buy a chair you bought yourself a teacher.
I'm assuming that you meant to post this to Mr. Helix but anyway I like the way you put that. I've done some simple repairs, loose chair rungs, etc., over the years but not something quite as extensive as the one in question.
Most of the pieces I make are new ones for some reason, not sure. Never really got into repairing but based on your reply maybe it's time I tackled one. There's a lot going on in a chair methinks.
Thanks for the nudge,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I think there are those us who like desiging/building are own thang, and those who like working on other peoples thang.... I have tried the repair stuff, square peg and round hole for me. I really never liked the stripping with chemicals, scraping and sanding, filling, fixings crappy joints, getting the cat pee out of the wood. Perhaps that is because I had to do that as a kid with mom and it was a forced chore.... Got smart and never said I was bored! I have a house full of my early work, and no desire to add to the collection. Let us know how it turns out Bob!
Morgan fairly sure he will stick to new materials..
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Edited 8/19/2009 7:46 pm by AZMO
Yesterday I ventured to a nearby college town and hit a rather nice used book store. With the clerks help I found a three volume set of paper backed pictured references on "American Oak Furniture" by Swedberg (Circa 1991). $9 each....I bought the set. A massive number if pictures and close-ups.Lots of "pressed back" chairs/rockers, so now I have a clue as to how the details were paired to the design. The information leads me to believe that my chair had been badly cobbled together when last "repaired".So from the pictures I will formulate a design plan and then a repair plan. I have a white oak log butt (20" dia x 48" long) sitting ready to be taken to my son-in-laws lumber mill for quarter sawing. I should be able to harvest enough "shorts" to make my repairs.I will need to turn spindles, remake the bottom rail of the back and repair/patch the damaged shoulder board.This will take some time, bit I'm venturing where I've never been before....WOW! This is invigorating!Thanks for all the positive support..............Iron Helix
Quite profound, Bronco.I appreciate the insight.............Iron Helix
I guess I'm the odd man out on this site because I do more repairs then new builds. There have been a lot of great ideas thrown out here in this post . . . . And I can only think of a couple of things to add. First and foremost, take your time. Don't be in a hurry. If you get into a rush it becomes way to easy to miss something. Secondly, Keep in mind that almost anything you do to the chair, if it doesn't look right or doesn't fit right, you can "undo" it and try again. And lastly, when I get a piece in that I don't feel is worth the time and effort to get my money back out of, I will salvage as much material out of the piece as I can. I know there are people out there that are better at refinishing then I may ever be. So I figure that if I can come close to matching the wood and the natural aging, I have a better shot at more balanced finish.
Best if luck on your project and I hope it comes out as you have imagined it.
Bill
Thanks, Beckum...........Iron Helix
I don't think that the chair is carved at all. That back design was pressed into the wood, perhaps with steam. Much cheaper than real carving. I don't think it's worth much effort.
Tom
Tom,
I agree, my title was a misnomer.
But if I learn on this one, then when a good one comes along
I'll have a better hand!.............Iron Helix
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