Cantilevered Thickness Drum Sanders
I spent about an hour searching thru past threads on the topic of thickness sanders. I am hoping for more current information. FWW apparently last evaluated these machines 8 years ago.
I am interested in resawing boards to create veneered panels. I expect to cut approx. 1/8 inch slabs and thickness them to 3/32 – assuming I can get out the resaw marks with one of these machines. I want to create uniformly thick slices to glue up onto a core that will only require scraping/sanding prior to finishing.
How is the finish/quality of performance of using one of the cantilevered thickness sanders for this task? Which one would you recommend? I have read a little about a Delta and the Performax 16/32, but am asking for practical information.
How are they to maintain? If I purchase used, what do I need to look out for?
Greg
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Replies
I have the performax baby ( 10-20 ) and love it to death. Minimum recommended thickness is 1/32 but I have never gone that far. Have gone to 1/8" with no problems. Depending on your resaw blade you will surely have to be thicker than 1/8" prior to sanding to get your 3/32" end result. Depending on your lumber choice you will have to be careful about burnishing when you get down to the 220 grit paper, a 1/16 or 1/32 turn of the depth handle is normal with fine grit paper. Keep a gum rubber eraser handy and use it on every other pass to keep the paper very clean. Skewing the stock slightly will help remove stock more cleanly and keep the paper cleaner till your final passes which will be straight through. To make the paper last longer and expose the grit to another angle, reverse the wrap.
Putting a very sharp fold in the ends of the paper prior to insertion in the clamps will go a long way to prevent "bumps" on the drum ends.
A power tool you won't regret getting.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Greg,
Take a look at the V drum sander.
http://www.stockroomsupply.com/
Don
Don,
That sanders very clever, have you had any experience using it?
John
Clever and very practical.
I have 2 of them . I have the 18" for over 4 years and last year I bought the 30" Flatmaster.
Unless you catch the paper with a sliver or a sharp edge, you wonder when the paper will wear out. There is little heat generated when sanding so you don't get any buildup on the paper. Not resin, not paint, varnish or stain, not glue. I picked up an extra set of fences and feather wheels for my 18". When you are doing a long or wide board it helps to have that 2nd and 3rd set of hands so you can focus on your feed rate.With the 24 and 30 inch models you can comfortably run 2 grits simultaneously.Don
I have seen that. But It does not sand to thickness.Greg
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Of course it does. But you are running the work over the sanding drum rather than mechanically lowering the drum to the work. Compare the action to hand planing or surface jointing to thickness rather than using a thickness planer. If you had a lot of material to remove it would be tedious, but I do not think a standard drum sander would be the best tool for thicknessing.
With a ruler and a flat surface you can easily determine how much is removed with each pass.
Some of Paul's customers have setup the drum overhead. I think there are some links from the site.Don
Edited 4/30/2008 11:54 pm ET by Don01
Are you saying this will yield uniformly dimensioned, parallel stock? I am missing something. With a thickness sander, the lower platen / feed belt is a fixed distance between the drum and the table. The wood has to pass thru that set gap. How is that achieved with this V Drum sander?Greg
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Both methods remove a controlled amount of material with each pass.
Both are limited in the amount that can be removed with each pass.
Both require the infeed/outfeed to be parallel to the drum.The thickness sander requires you to turn a crank to achieve the desired thickness.The V Drum requires you to run a test piece to determine how much material is being removed. That translates into a multiple of passes for the grit being used, or you change grit and recalculate.The rest is simple math.Don
"Of course it does. But you are running the work over the sanding drum rather than mechanically lowering the drum to the work. Compare the action to hand planing or surface jointing to thickness rather than using a thickness planer. If you had a lot of material to remove it would be tedious, but I do not think a standard drum sander would be the best tool for thicknessing."
The V sander would be like trying to thickness with a jointer. The planer would be comparable to the thickness sander or even better, the widebelt sander. Another thing to compare the machines with is HP. Drum sanders and widebelt sanders typically have much higher hp motors than the V sander as you are barely touching it with the V sander.
I've been around all kind of sanders in custom shops and factories for 35 years. I would have to completely disagree with your assessment of the sanders. The drum sander would be mush more accurate in thicknessing than a stockroom sander could ever be. I find the wrap around non-velcro paper would be more accurate as the velcro tends to round edges off. On our widebelts the main drum is a hard rubber. Typically they run at least 20 hp on a 36" wideblet and .010" would be a good pass. The stock room sander with a fractional hp motor would be less than .001" and unregulated in thickness.
I have a performax 16-32 and it completely works as advertised.
You must have a dust collector - the higher CFM, the better
Previously, I ran it with a 1hp Jet and had to clean the belts after every pass or two. I also developed "belt-burn" if I was too aggressive on stock removal. I could only do about 1/128th with my 220 grit belts.
Now, I'm using a 1.5hp Jet w/ a canister filter. Last weekend, I ran 6 Birdseye Maple panels, that measure 9 1/2 x 13 1/2, through 6 or 7 passes. Removing 1/64th with each pass, using a 220 belt. No belt burn and I only cleaned the belt after I ran all 6 panels through at the set thickness!
You need to take care when you align the drum to the table. The outer side of the drum should be .003 inches higher than the motor side of the drum. Doing so will eliminate any chance of leaving tracks in your material when you are surfacing material that is wider than the drum. Proper setup is critical.
Thicknessing to 1/8 or 3/32 will not be a problem. But I must warn you, it will take a while. These machines are not fast and you cannot take off a lot of material at a time.
Lastly, these will not eliminate the need to hand sand. Even with the 220 grit belt you will still have to hand sand with 150 - 180 - 220 grits or use a card scraper.
"Another thing to compare the machines with is HP. Drum sanders and widebelt sanders typically have much higher hp motors than the V sander as you are barely touching it with the V sander."The cut from sandpaper is limited by the depth of the grit, regardless of the machine. The bigger units required more HP because there is more grit in contact with the work, causing more friction and drag on the motor."I've been around all kind of sanders in custom shops and factories for 35 years. I would have to completely disagree with your assessment of the sanders. The drum sander would be mush more accurate in thicknessing than a stockroom sander could ever be. I find the wrap around non-velcro paper would be more accurate as the velcro tends to round edges off."Too much pressure on the drum. You are forcing the work into the paper."On our widebelts the main drum is a hard rubber. Typically they run at least 20 hp on a 36" wideblet and .010" would be a good pass. The stock room sander with a fractional hp motor would be less than .001" and unregulated in thickness."Please explain. The grade of paper is is the same regardless of which machine it is on. Your .010" cut would be about 254 micron which is slightly finer than 60 grit(CAMI).
Your .001" cut would be 25 micron which is a very fine 400 grit(CAMI). I use mainly 80 and 100 grit Klingspor paper and consistently get a pretty aggressive cut. How did you arrive at you number?
As for as unregulated thickness goes, you do have a point however, it is quite simple to make a test cut with each grit to see how much material is removed with each pass. By knowing the "as-is" and "to-be" thickness, one can easily calculate how many passes need to be made over the drum.Anyway, both tools have strengths and weaknesses.DonEdited 5/2/2008 11:27 pm ET by Don01Edited 5/2/2008 11:28 pm ET by Don01
Edited 5/2/2008 11:41 pm ET by Don01
I've got a 16-32 Performax and use it regularly. That doesn't mean I'm in love with it, and it does have some characteristics that I really don't like.
You're supposed to be able to sand things wider than the roll width by reversing the material and running the other side through. I've had very limited success doing this - always end up with a noticeable seam. I often have rail-and-stile door frames just a bit over 16 inches wide that I'd like to be able to run through the sander to insure that the joints are absolutely flat. I've ruined quite a few doors trying to do this.
Although it doesn't do it all the time, the sander will occasionally "washboard" the surface of a board. It seems to do this only when I've got a special board, like one with very attractive grain, or if I've got a couple of bookmatched boards that I want to use in a pair of doors, or if the project needs to be completed and delivered in the next day or so.
When sanding thin material (less than 1/4 inch) I run the material through the sander on a flat board, like a piece of MDF or plywood. I find I get better results this way.
Sanding cherry is tricky - the sander wants to burn the surface and varnish up the sandpaper. Take very light passes, especially with the finer grits, and clean the sandpaper regularly with a rubber scrub block.
Periodically check that the paper is tight on the roller. If it loosens up even a little, the paper edges will overlap, and you'll get a burned strip at on the paper and then on the wood.
Don't plan on removing much thickness from a board - this isn't a planer. Sure, you can run some heavy grit paper and take off some material, but then you're faced with many many passes with finer paper to get rid of the scratch marks.
Primarily to handle door frames and faceframes, I've ordered a Flatmaster 30 inch sander, hopefully it will arrive within the next few days. This is not a replacement for the Performax - the two sanders will each take care of the functions they perform best. And maybe some day I'll find a 25 inch wide belt sander at a decent price as a replacement for the Performax.
I have the Performax 22-44 Plus and love it. It is a finishing machine and not a thickness sander, but what you are asking about is finishing. I use mine to do what you are inquiring about and it is great. You can go to 1/16" or so if you pay attention to what you are doing. Use good sandpaper in the 100 to 150 grit range and you will have a smooth finish. It will still need finish sanding but the surface will be smooth.
David Marks on his TV show uses an older model of Performax to sand all of the shop made veneer and bending laminations that he uses. He obviously gets good results and you can too.
Just remember that you are not going to take a 1/16" off at a pass and use it for the saw mark removal and you will be good to go. Good dust collection is a must also, and that means a dust collector of a good size and not a shop vac. A lot of dust is generated and you must remove it to get a good finish and not burn the sandpaper.
If you need any further tips or advice on the drum sander let me know.
Bruce
Cincinnati,
I bought the Grizzly G0458 It sells for $850.00 and has worked really well through the thousands of bd.ft. I needed to sand thus far I like the fact that I can sand up to 36 inch wide stuff and one pass will match up with the second pass.
I bought 4 of every grit sanding rolls thinking they would get dull like any sandpaper did. Well I've done all those panels and OOPs that's not the case.
At this rate I'll have sanding rolls untill my old age.. One roll of each grit will do for most hobbiests.. Take them off and hang them up when switching grits,,
I have a Performax 10/20 Plus whatever the plus means? Not something I would have bought (as in drum sander not the brand). My daughters got it for me. I LOVE IT! Should have got one years ago! Changing sanding strips is a bit of a hassle but I would assume they all are?
If I purchase used, what do I need to look out for?
Try before you buy.. I'd say if possible. Any used tool purchase may or may not be what you want. Hard one to answer. I always think.. Why did they get rid of it is a good tool? I know that is unfair but just me!
All I can say is my little Performax WORKS!
However, I found that I have forgotten to turn off the transport belt motor on occasions! (Two separate switches.. Gee.. They are dealin' with a old man here!) It sure gets HOT running all night!
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