Getting ready to build some cabinet doors and am wondering-
On paint grade doors- has anyone experimented with pocket screws to fasten mitred frame and panels- I have had great success with even poplar stiles and rails (cope and stick) w/mdf raised panels-But looking for a way to make mitred doors strong- Would this combo work-
Replies
The instructions that come with the Kreg Pocket Hole Master System include directions for using them on miters. I have not done this myself as yet but I can't imagine it being difficult. Only having to drill one side makes this joinery very simple.
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
It can be done and works well. just be careful where you place the screws. Fill the "holes" with 3/8" dowel and cut flush.
Dunno about pocket screws in that application. But mitered door frames is one of the few places I use biscuits, and they work very well. They're easy to install, and wouldn't leave you the issue of filling the holes.
Thanks for the replies- hijack my own thread- What is everyones favorite method to join mitered doors?
Splines are what I use for this aplication. I'm not that secure with pocket hole screws going into end grain.
Jack
Splines
I find biscuits are great for mitered doors. Use 2 if there's room.DR
I've used four joints for mitered corners. Mitered half-lap, splined and mitered saddle, and plain old mitered. Of which the mitered saddle is probably the strongest. Having a tennoning jig has made this joint a snap. Did a half lap on a frame for a heavy plate glass mirror for the bathroom, 2' X 3' with no mechanical fasteners and it's holding up well. OOps forgot about dowels. Another option which I haven't done yet is the Miller dowels. That is if you don't mind seeing their butts.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Maxp,
When I first got my Kreg jig (pocket hole sustem) I was so enthused with its ease of use I made some cabinets for my shop with it, including using pocket screws to join the door frames. (Not mitered, just butted rail and stile, enforced with p. screws.) They came out remarkably less than perfect: they were not flat (bent at the joints) and began to sag out of square over the years. I never used them for doors again.
I think pocket screws are great for joining cabinet face frames, because they are reinforced when the other members are glued to them (cabinet bottoms and top corner braces.) But I don't think they are the best choice for doors. Just my opinion. Gary
Interesting!- again thanks for all your input. Curious why some of you use splines over biscuts
I am a carpenter and don't often get called upon to build cabinet doors, but I frequently preassemble wide door casing. I use biscuits and pull them together with Clam Clamps. They were profiled in FH #164. A little pricy but make for a very tight and durable joint. For a cabinet door you could over size the width of your stiles and rails, biscuit, assemble, and the rip to final size cutting the pin holes left by the clamps. I have also preassembled large mitered casing with no profile with pocket screws. If I remember right the pocket hole extends back from the edge something like 2 1/2" so you'd need stiles and rails wider than that or the pocket hole would blow out the back of the edge.
I have pulled apart cabinets on restoration projects where doors were assembled with a miter/ mortise and tenon joint or with a miter/lap joint. Pretty cool if you have the time.
I personally use splines only where I can cover them with something like soffit intersections on a coffer ceiling where the overhang on the ceiling "fascia " will cover the joint. I know alot of guys that use them because they don't trust biscuit joiners to cut perfect slots so they will use a spline or cut the biscuit joint with a 5/32" slot cutter in a router.
Recently I have been using a combination of biscuits and pocket screws in situations where I couldn't use either the bench clamp or the Kreg vise grips. The biscuits register the joints flush and don't allow the angle of the pocket hole pull the joint out of plane when the screw is driven and if you glue the joint the pocket hole acts as a clamp for the biscuit. I have seen pocket screws used with cope and stick joinery on raised panel waiscotting. No need to spend time and space clamping.
Justin
If I thought I could do it I would have by now.... Unfortunately it would certaintly not last. The good news is that there are a few other options that are not difficult. Dowels, buiscits and splines are all good methods.
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
max was wonderin....
has anyone experimented with pocket screws to fasten mitred frame and panels
***************************************
Nope, not i
About three years ago I stopped chopping down my own trees and cutting my own 2x4's with a pit saw and then letting them dry and planing them to current code dimensions.
In the 50's mitred frame and panels jumped from the jointers bench to the carpenters agenda with the advent of the splined mitre joint. Nowadays cognizant advocates of the mitre joint will use the biscuit to align and stabilize this type of joint.At least that allows you a modicum of adjustment when yer reference off the face, lining corners up,etc.....
OK, toss in a pocket screw, and what you got is a ramp, and when you tighten the screw, if everything else is ok, a mere modicum of slop and yer joint is gonna wanna slide. By the time you do 4 of these, the glue, like the sun, is setting on you. Unless of course you angle the pocket screw at 45, which probably controls one moment of movent substantially, but add any creep on the mitre with anyslop in the planer alighment, and problems ensue. Couse you gotta sand out any problems, even if they are on a curved profile.
Most rails/stiles is 2.25", and IF mitred, well you can multiply that by 1.414, and then again by 4x per door, so if the first one aint perfect, well you got 2.25x1.414x4= a tad over 12" of joint to sand to perfection. And that is if the pocket screws don't cause any kinda vertical shift. Hardly something I'd wanna do even for a single door let alone on a whole kitchen or media room of em.
OTOH, I guess a fella could beat this exquisitely perfrect jointery with a deadblow mallet so that it did indeed line up. Butt hardly fine woodworking.
And that would present finishing problems with the bruised wood,
wouldn't it.
And wouldn't a resonable finishing type person expect also that it would take more time to adequately fill to flatness the holes from pocketholes on the back of these doors than it would to use conventional biscuit or spline jointery anyway. or does max just leave the gaping holes of his pocket screws. and how does he "paint" them.......
Hell, if I had to fuss, I'd rather fuss on the show surface.
well, darn, that's just my opinion.
Eric
in cowtown.
Eric,
I've always loved a man of a few words-thanks for the input
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled