Hello All ! This is my first post to the knots forum. I have been reading it for the past few weeks and have enjoyed the discussions and information. What led me to knots was my search for the perfect cabinet table saw purchase for the regular joe woodworker who has saved his cash to buy the saw of his dreams. I have heard all the horror stories but what I would like to hear from any of you who would like to post a positive opinion or story of your favorite saw to help me make my decision. I would like to say money is no object but I have saved enough to get anyone of the major players in the home woodworker/small business saws. From Powermatic to General and anything in between I would really appreciate some positive input. Thanks
Dale
Replies
General first, Powermatic 66 2nd, Unisaw 3rd, Grizzly 1023...in that order. Every General I've looked at has been delivered set up perfectly, with the fence parallel and the bevel stops absolutely dead-on accurace.
I've looked at a couple of PM66's that belong to companies here, and both are real solid workhorses. However, both are at least 5 years old and I can't comment on their recent quality.
There are thousands of satisfied Unisaw customers out there, and the Grizzly 1023 also has an enormous number of fans. You will be happy with any of the above mentioned saws but if you want a guaranteed smile everytime you flip the switch, go for the General.
Regards,
Ron
Thanks Ron, great suggestions. Powermatic used to be my drool tool but I have read some many negative comments that I have been all but scared off in purchasing it. I had never considered General but I have seen quite a few mentions of it here in knots that I am going to look real hard it. Again Thanks for the good words.
Dale
Chopper,
If your going to buy the saw of your dreams...which, I, for one, strongly support...then you'll have to include the SawStop along with Robin's list. We all know that cabinet saw dream has a dark side too, the SawStop appears to change that picture.
BG, had not considered it due to its shorty history. I am just wondering how it will be accepted by the industry and woodworkers all over. I am concerned about buying a saw that is here today but gone tomorrow. I'll look, but I would need to be convinced that it is going to be around. I also do not want to be in on the Guinea pig stages and be part of the ongoing development of a new product to market. Thanks for the suggestion I look into it.
Dale
Go with a slider. A cabinet saw is a simply a saw with a cabinet base in my opinion. A cabinet saw is like half a saw once you use a slider in my experience. It works sheet goods and hardwood boards and panels and eliminates the need for a radial arm saw and miter saw and is far more accurate. Some do take dado blades. The footprint isn't really any bigger than a regular saw as the outrigger for the slider is easily removed and the saw can be set on a mobile base which is impossible with the add on sliders such as Exactor. Nice compact sliders are available from Rojek, Hammer, Minimax and several others. See http://www.sawmillcreek.org for discussions on the subject. The saw is no better than the person operating it. I've seen fabulous furniture from third world countries made with arbors mounted under sheets of plywood.
Lots of smaller sliders in the four foot travel range. I picked up a used SCMI for less than the price of a new PM 66. There's always the hybrids. The Laguna and Minimax SC-3 are no bigger than a cabinet saws footprint but have integral sliders. Like someone mentioned what's the budget and even if not going pro once you use a slider you would never go back to a cabinet saw.
I wouldn't worry about future upgrades either. I've owned many different machines over the years based on my available shop space.
Edited 8/10/2005 9:02 am ET by rick3ddd
Rick3ddd, Had never considered a slider. I have a two and half car garage that is slowly working its way into the work shop I have always wanted. I think I just might have room for one if it fits the bill. I can't say much more as I really have not looked into sliders. I always thought they were pretty much limited to cutting just sheet goods. I also can't say any of my magazines (after fine woodworking I also ready pretty much all the other magazines that have to do with woodworking) have never done a review or comparison that I have seen. So I would need to be better informed about the quality and the versatility of a slider and of course the price ! Thanks for the new information and perspective. This is exactly the posts I was hoping to get. Again thanks Rick3ddd.
You left out a big piece of the puzzle. What is your budget? I do not do this as a profession and could not justify in my mind the extra cost of the big sliders. If money was no object I would buy the biggest and most expensive equipment, but money is important, so I went with the best value. I looked for a long time for a used saw, but in the end got tired of waiting for one to take a chance on and am glad I decided on the 1023slx with 7' rails. Lots of power and good quality castings. The others PM66, Unisaws, etc all have good reps and long histories. Which ever one you go with it will be fun to have a new toy. Good luck on the decision. If you have any specific questions about the 1023 just ask. I posted a thread here after my purchase with pic's and details about delivery and quality of packaging and so forth.
Bones, I think I can safety say that I have saved more than enough to get myself any one of the top cabinet saws fully loaded with any of the accessories I might want. I was ready to buy a powermatic 66 three years ago when I started to read all the negative stories about them and Delta. So I held off and then got occuppied with other projects. But I kept on saving. I have purchased some tools from Grizzly and have been really happy with them and their service and they are definitely in my top choices. But again, my objective here is to hear from as wide a variety of woodworkers as possible and see what their favorites are and why. Then I am going to make a purchase of a saw that I hope to have for the rest of my life that I hope will never make me wish I had bought something else. Sound impossible ? I hope not ! Thanks for the good words. I appreciate it.
Dale
One thing you might want to consider are the possible add ons to a good base usint such as the Gizzly. - Power feeder, merlin splitter, mobile base, router table side table and so on. If you buy a good saw that will last you and that you will be happy with, and you have a choice of two or more - any of which you will be happy with and which are all in your budget range , go with the least expensive and customize it to make it even better and stay within your budget.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Chopper,
I happen to own a Ridgid benchtop saw and use it along with my Festool system to do all manner of complex projects, so I can't advise you on a specific cabinet saw.
However, I'll tell you to avoid a mail-order purchase of such a major machine. These days, too many manufacturers have spotty quality control. Returning something to a brick-and-mortar store is a lot less of a hassle than arranging for return freight.
The exception is Amazon, which has a good return policy. They arrange for a pick-up free of charge, and they do not charge you shipping on the original purchase. Even there, if I can avoid it I go with brick-and-mortar stores. Generally speaking, I would keep away from mail order if you can.
Yes, this is just my opinion, but if you get a defective mail-order machine anywhere except Amazon, it will be your opinion too.
Edited 8/10/2005 9:10 am ET by Matthew Schenker
Matthew, I will definitely make sure I can trust who I buy from. Thanks.
Dale
I happen to own a Ridgid.. I do too and I think a good saw for the price.. I have access to better saws (not sliders).. I get the same cut.. Not better or worser!
WillGeorge, You own a Ridgid Tablesaw?
Walker1
I'm guessing about your budget --- in today's market --- General or a vintage Delta or Powermatic in good shape.
BossCrunk, your thinking is in line with mine. But I am going to wait and see what I hear from all my fellow woodworkers to see what they have to say before I decide. As far as used goes, I have had good and bad luck with buying used. This time it is going to be mine and it is going to be brand new !!! Thanks for replying !
Dale
Here's another big vote for General! And the people at General, will never leave you hanging.
Good Luck. Walker1
Walker1, I have really had my eyes opened up about General. I had even considered them before as I always thought they were a cheap fringe product. I am investigating their products now to see where they fit in my idea of that perfect saw. I used to have the same opinion of Grizzly until I bought some of their product and now i am sold on them as one of the better companies to do business with. Thanks for the feedback.
Dale
Chopper,
I just bought the new X5 left tilt unisaw and I'm very pleased with it. I've been using it everyday now and it's a real trooper. Also bought a nice forrest blade which I would recommend to you for whatever saw you wind up buying. I bought this saw because my budget was below $2,000 and this fit the bill. Now don't get me wrong here, I love this saw, but if I could have gone all out I think I would have gone for the TSS sliding table saw from Laguna. I saw one demonstrated at a show recently and it's an impressive machine for those who can afford it. The slider and miter system look really well made and heavy duty. I just bought their 16" bandsaw and I'm still waiting to recieve it, they were helpful, friendly and gave me some great prices. Tell them you were at the show in Vegas and they might even give you a 10% discount.
Happy hunting,
Brian
Brianmexico, thanks for the feedback. I have looked long and hard at the Delta offerings and while they aren't a bad saw they leave me wanting somehow and I can't put my finger on it. Funny thing is I know more people who have a unisaw than any other saw and that's the point. It seems to me to be the ford or chevy of the group and I am looking for the cadillac or lincoln of the group. I want this saw to never leave me wanting for another and most of the people who I know have the unisaw are always talking about buying something else for one reason or another. But it still may fit the bill I still haven't decided. Thanks for the input.
Dale
For what it's worth, I think General (not General International) is probably the best of the lot. Five years ago, I'd have said Delta Unisaw, PM66 or General were in the same class; now I think that both Delta and PM have slipped. I have not seen any postings here or elsewhere to suggest General has. If you are looking for a serious WW (but not a production shop) TS, I would favor the General. I think it would be the last TS you'd need to buy.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
For the General owners out there, where did people buy theirs? A local dealer or can you buy them on-line? It did not appear to be the case and the local dealer is far away. I'm also considering the General or the PM 66
Metod, thanks for the link. If you had asked me three years ago what I thought was the best saw period. I would have said Powermatic. I had drooled for years saving to buy a powermatic only to be scared off the purchase when I started to shop for it. I still pine for it and wish I could be sure but I have read so many different stories, posts rants and ravings about this saw that I am no longer sure about it. Unless I can feel sure about buying this saw and get the legendary quality that this saw was supposed to have I will not be buying it. But I sure want to. I'll look into the link and see what's new and see if it helps.
Someone mentioned a good Unisaw. I don't know where you live, or what your budget is, but I have one for sale. Why would I sell it? Because I just bought a new SawStop. The SawStop is working great for me. If you have been reading the post to this message board, you will know that I have had some problems which were taked care of by SawStop in a very prompt fashon. I have not seen the Laguna saw, but it would not surprise me if it was top notch also.
I've used most of the name brand saws in various shops. Powermatic, General, Jet,Grizzly ,unisaw ,etc. I only used a General for an hour or so. They are all good saws,I bought a Grizzly for myself.The cost difference was the deciding factor for me. The differences in the machines is negligible.There are Grizzly cabinet saws that I bought for various shops that are still going strong after at least a dozen years of daily use.
mike
I second the suggestion to get a slider. They're much more versatile out of the crate. Myself I've got a jet xacta and it is a good saw. Finewoodworking rated it very high a couple of years age. However with all cabinet saws the blade guard and miters are basically junk. You'll want to upgrade them or make your own upgrades for maximum performance. And don't forget you'll need to add a push off table before any of the cabinet and many of the sliders become truely functional. You would think someone would be manufacturing one ready to go for a decent price but the closest you'll find are some of the euro sliders.
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