I’m about ready to buy a new saw (hybrid for a smaller shop, retiree/hobbyist).
I want it yesterday , of course, but time is not an issue. Does anyone think that there may be any major savings after the first of the year? Post election, slower economy. I’ve never really paid attention to sales seasons for tools and wonder if the manufacturers do similar cycles as department stores, appliances, linens, etc.
Anyone hearing anything about inventory/production/delivery problems of major players in the tool industry?
I’m just getting antsy, now that I’ve made up my mind and don’t want to find that in a couple months there might have been a chance for major savings. Crystal balls or Ouija Boards might help, eh?
…The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain…Be kind to your children….they will choose your nursing home.…aim low boys, they’re ridin’ shetland ponies !!
Replies
I am guessing that shipping may come back down since fuel prices are dropping. But if you find a free shipping deal as I did a couple years ago on my drill press from Amazon then it doesn''t matter.
Happy hunting !
One of the more common emails I get through my site, including one this morning, is "Where did you buy "insert whatever here" for that price? I can't find it that cheap! Some even get a bit irate about it, like I am cheating or something. The simple answer is that I bought whatever it is back then and they are buying it today.
I gave up trying to wait for a better price. Every time I did that I wound up paying more. I know there will be exceptions (very few I expect) but those never seemed to come around when I wanted something. Just playing the odds, I think you are better off finding the best deal today.
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
I think I'd wait on major purchases, unless you really need it immediately. If the polls are correct, and the tax burden is shifted to business, we might easily be in a big-D depression in a year. You might get the saw for 50% off in a going-out-of-business sale. ;-)
I might have to sell my equipment just to pay the new much higher taxes that a certain candidate wants to IMPOSE on all of the JOE THE PLUMBERS out there.
If you are making more than 250K, you can afford to pay a little more in taxes, buddy. Before Bush's tax cuts, which by the way, have doubled our national debt, those of us up in that tax bracket were paying a lot more. Now we have adults back in office and we'll have to cough up some more coin for over $250k. Boo-hoo. Better than leaving my kids with hundreds of trillions of dollars in debt.
did not know I was your buddy,buddy
no sense in getting hostile over these matters, we can just agree to disagree=== WW 57
Yes, I think so. I'd say we all can find common ground. I'm more interested in discussing woodworking in this forum anyway. All the rhetoric of the campaigns will fade (for at least 12 months) but I'll still need to improve my skills with woodworking. It's funny, really, at how my wife chewed me out today about how much I spent on both political contributions and my woodworking tools in the last 6 months. For a while at least she'll have to content herself with being angry about the tools. :-)
Peace ,Brother----WW 57
All depends on which saw your looking at. All the Hybrids are good machines. I have the Dewalt with sliding table.
Check with prices on ebay, craigs list for used. If going new check Amazon, tool crib, coastal tool, Sears hardware for a special, even HD will order any power tool which might work out better with shipping costs what they are.
Steel City have upped the rebates on all of their tools, despite a threatened rise in prices, and are presently giving away a Forrest blade with their riving-knife models (which are hybrids). http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/homepage/News_a.pdf
Jim
Shiraz Balolia, the president of Grizzly has stated on two different forums that their prices will go up at the end of this year. Now, I realize that they aren't the only company out there selling tools, but the reasons he cited for the higher prices pertain to all companies. Mr. Balolia explained that the rise in their prices was due to the declining dollar and the increase in the cost of steel. I've noticed that several companies have already raised their prices in recent months. That's as close as I can get to a crystal ball.
Shiraz Balolia, the president of Grizzly has stated on two different forums that their prices will go up at the end of this year
That's not exactly a new thing. Grizzly has gone up on their prices every year for quite some time. Any item with a fair amount of steel or cast iron seems to see the most increase.
Lee
I never said it was new. I just stated a fact that was relevant to the OP question.
Oops! Sorry. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
Lee
My name isn't Joe, I'm not a plumber and I don't make anything near 250K annually ergo I should have no worries.
On the other hand, you infer one should invest in iron. That would mean I dump all my Euros, and bury my gold. Hmmmmm.....................
....as I understand it for every pound of iron the return is approximately four pounds of rust...........interesting economic outlook.
I just wanted a table saw! :~[
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Edited 11/3/2008 3:28 am by oldbeachbum
"...I'm not a plumber and I don't make anything near 250K annually" You must be Joe-the-plumber(not!)'s twin brother. He doesn't fit either of those categories either! ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's a plumber and your's truly here is an accomplished cabinetmaker. Too funny.
My experience when I had my own retail business was that it was the months before a presidential election that were the worst. But the effects of the campaign are far outweighed this year by the general economic disaster, so no guarantees business will pick up at the beginning of next year.'
I don't know about Jet, Delta and Steel City, but Grizzly seems to control their inventory very, very carefully. When they have their annual sale (in the summer? I think) they often run out of their best sellers and people have to wait for them to get here weeks later. I suspect all the companies have cut back on what's coming out of the factories.
If I were in your shoes, I'm not sure I'd wait very long to buy. The items that are likely to be reduced significantly over the next couple of months would seem to be electronics -- especially digital TV's. Not so sure about big tools.
Did I miss it, or have you let us in on which saw you're planning to buy?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I'm leaning to the Woodtek 148 (1st choice) or the Grizzly G0478.
Thanks all for your input. This is the guidance I've was hoping for. As I said, time is not critical but, the DW is ammenable and I have a SS check I've been saving.
Way back in '81 I bought a Shopsmith. Great machine, quality,service. Over the years I've spent many, many happy hours with it but the table is just plain too small. I've rigged extensions, etc but I would dearly like a real table and all that goes with it.
The Shopsmith table upgrades are more expensive than what I might spend on a new dedicated tool. I already have a planer and a jointer, not to mention d/c and sooo many hand tools & other small power tools. I'm spoiled, I guess. I now have the space, where previously I did not.
Besides, I deserve it. :-D
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Edited 11/3/2008 12:36 am by oldbeachbum
PS: I know you're way out there on the coast, but are there any Craig's List fringes that you can reach if a good deal comes up? There have been alot of tools for sale recently from contractors and other professionals who are throwing in the towel.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/3/2008 12:15 am by forestgirl
Very little worth driving for. What I've seen on C/L within a 50 mile drive appears to be the same kind of stuff I'd find at a pawn shop. I do visit them, as well. I also check out posted estate sales within a 50-60 miles radius. That's all just timing in most cases, anyway.
Most of the C/L listings are in and around the I-5 corridor from Longview down to Portland. From here that's at least 110 miles o/w. Time/fuel/effort vs ? deal....who knows. Probably better off new and just eat shipping charges.
How many times will I be doing this, anyway?...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Yep, that's just too far to take the risks of (a) the tool is beat-up and nearly dead or (b) it's gone when you get there. Here on the island, that can be a problem also, but I've lucked out with the lathe (even further out in the sticks, but near our sticks, LOL) and the Unisaw (a little town called Chico, about 25 miles away).
Best of luck, let us know how you like the beastie when you've run it through its paces!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi forestgirl:
CL has been like a candy store for my recently acquired tool addiction. I bought a grizzly 1023 TS, PM 8" jointer, a DeWalt RAS was given to me, and my most recent acquisition, a Ridgid TP 1300 planer, used once and set aside. It has the original blades (sharp) plus the spares. A forrest blade, forrest dado set and Jet tenon jig came with the TS. I've been quite lucky finding fairly quality tools in very good condition at very reasonable prices for used equipment. They have been within 20 or so miles from the house. I guess I'm also lucky to live in the Houston area, but that is highly debatable, especially in the summer.
Now there is a grizzly 14" BS, probably 7 to 10 years old, in perfect condition with extra blades and a fence for $225. He would take $200 but he lives 260 miles round trip. I'm trying to deny my urges! There have been some nice drill presses on CL that I would like more than a BS at this time. I have found the tools at pawn shops around my area to be way overpriced. I also like to buy reconditioned tools from CPO, recently a bosch OS, the nice bosch JS, and PC 16 gauge nailer. They are perfect and under full warrenty. Just my 0.02.
Wow, you have scored! Good job. Re: the Grizzly bandsaw, if it's the 1019 or the 1019Z, pass it up would be my recommendation. It was a fine saw (for the price) in its time (I own the Z) but the newer ones are better. If I sold mine, it wouldn't be for more than $175.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/7/2008 11:44 am by forestgirl
Thanks forestgirl. It is a 1019. I saw one somewhere for $175. ebay i think or maybe a woodworking forum. he may come down to $175 but i just can't justify a bandsaw at the moment. i've decided to get my shop, er garage in shape before making any more major tool purchases. i bought a magazine that has a lot of good designs for shop furniture. it's a condensed version of a book. i think wood magazine. i plan to build a dedicated miter saw station, RAS station, planer station, sharpening station and a bunch of drawer storage. that should take a few weekends and keep me off CL (haha). my next big purchase will be a dust collector, which i will probably need to buy new. have never seen one on CL.
I can't really remember the details of what the 1019Z had over the plain-Jane 1019, but it was a noticeable difference, I remember that much. If you're not doing alot of resawing, the 1019 would probably do well for you, save you some money for sure! My 1019Z will resaw well but set-up is fussy. The Z motor has plenty of ooomph, not so sure about the plain 1019, for resawing.
Check out the G0555. It has taken the place of the 1019Z in the Grizzly Order of Things. I'm not saying it's "the saw to buy" but as an intro-level saw, it's pretty darned nice. Plenty of people who own 'em at various forums, if you want to check out the feedback.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FYI---That 250 K amount is now down to 120 K and who is to say it wont get down to 50 K or lower---.
"
"FYI---That 250 K amount is now down to 120 K and who is to say it wont get down to 50 K or lower---."
It will hit you from more that that! Wait till the tax cuts in place now expire, the tax increses on oil & coal everything else goes through the roof. Those big bad corporations just pass that along and you pay! Unfortunately by the time people realize it it will be to late. Of course if you are part of the 40% who pay no taxes and hope to get that welfare check from the IRS, you should be ok(till your other bills go up) Just remember that spread the wealth comment. IF he's in, it's your wealth that will be spread!Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Geeez, Bones, I hardly know where to start. I don't remember being in anything like the bad shape we're in now (personally or nationally) when Bill Clinton was president, and corps or at least the wealthy were paying higher taxes (pre-Bush-Tax cut).
Perhaps you could do some research and find out how many rich people pay virtually no taxes. And businesses. They have access to loopholes I can only dream about on those occasions I dream of a winning lottery ticket.
None of Obama's promises apply to people who don't work and don't pay taxes.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If Nobama gets elected,why would anyone want to work when the government is going to take care of all of us anyway???????????
Yeah, right. Sheesh.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Suffice it to say we disagree on this crucial election, but everyone is entitled to their opinion----That is why we have elections.
Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions. It's unfortunate that things are so divided in this country that people on all sides of an issue feel compelled to spew nonsense about the opposition. Does us no good whatsoever.
I'll bail and give the OP a break. Should have sat on my hands, but it was pretty darned hard not to say something.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I hear ya'. Not to worry, though. One way or another I'm sure the sun will still rise on Wednesday. We just won't see it through the rain, out here, anyway. ;0)
Got teased by an e-mail about Woodtek machinery today. Everything on nice sales EXCEPT you know what. bummer :(
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Edited 11/4/2008 3:22 am by oldbeachbum
oldbeachbum,I think the last thing you want to do is try and factor in the economic situation into your decision. First of all how much money is at risk here, a few hundred dollars either way? I strongly suspect, like the rest of us, you've spent more than that in the past on objectives that didn't quite pan out ( remember the two year cell phone deal?). The time has come for you to think about you, if not now, when? Just do what makes you happy and allows you to move on with your new objectives.
Very nice, thank you for the thoughtful comments.
I've printed and framed a copy of your message and it now hangs in the Grand Salon. Your check is in the mail. ;)...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
They must be reading your mind, shame on them! Go for it, you deserve an early Christmas present!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thank you, also.
Did I ever tell your how beautiful your........................ahem!...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
update......fyi
I pulled the trigger this morning and ordered the Woodtek 148-271 :0D
Thanks to all for your input and you, Forestgirl, for your wise words over the last 'couple years I've been lurking here.
I'll be out of town for a bit to help my elderly Mom so I asked them to ship 12/01 or later and they said no problem and will hold the price I ordered, in case of any increases.
MERRY CHRISTMAS to me. I can't wait. I'm a lucky guy with a WONDERFUL DW !!
Happy Holidays and safe woodworking,
Jim
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Edited 11/11/2008 2:04 pm by oldbeachbum
"MERRY CHRISTMAS to me." Absolutely! Good for you, Jim.
Hope you're mom's doing OK.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks,
She's almost 97 and lives alone about 1000 miles from us. No sisters or brothers and it's time she comes to be with us. She will fight 'tooth and nail' to stay in HER place and I respect that, but, she should not, anymore. It will be an interesting negotiation. We have tried this before and she has always won.
Our home is hers, she only has to accept it. The DW has asked her directly, to join us. Our place is less than 3 years old and we have plenty of room.
Will keep you posted. Happy holidays.
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
A thousand miles is a long ways. My late father-in-law lived to be 102, with his 2nd wife who was 95-ish when he died. They managed to stay in their house with a little help with cleaning and laundry, bathing for him, but Nick was driving over there (350 miles?) fairly often. It's really, really tough when it comes time for leaving home.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
A merry (early) Christmas, to be sure.But, don't you also need a new LN plane, so you can decorate your new saw with ribbon shavings? ;-)
Beach Bum -
A thought. Think carefully about what you want the saw for. If you mostly build furniture, particularly large case pieces, I'm going to suggest that you don't want a contractor's saw - you want a cabinet saw with a 3 HP motor. If, on the other hand, you largely build small things like jewelry boxes, picture frames, etc..., a good contractor's saw should serve you well.
I used a contractor's version for about 8 years, and it was a real pleasure to give the thing the boot and install a Unisaw. Just about any stock thicker than 4/4 was a real strain on the motor, and was really slow, with the attendant burned edges. The exception was pine, but most of what I wanted to rip on the saw was 8/4 - 16/4 walnut, mahogany, and cherry, and the 3HP motor on the Uni goes through that like the proverbial hot knife through butter.
If you're looking at contractor's saws because of the price difference, I'd strongly consider being patient and continuing to check Craig's list, the local newspaper, the message board at the local Woodshop, and possibly e-bay. You can typically get a not too used Uni for about $1000 - $1400 depending on accessories, blades, and age, and that won't be much more than a decent contractor's saw.
"None of Obama's promises apply to people who don't work and don't pay taxes."
He says and I quote "95% of Americans will see their taxes go down"
Only 40% pay taxes now. The math just don't add up. If you pay nothing now, and get money back that's the same as a welfare check plain and simple. Raising taxes during a recession is ludicrous. And the class warfare get the rich thinking will be good sound bites, but not solid in theory, and besides there is not enough of the so called rich to pay for what he wants to do. See what you don't see is you are the rich! And don't forget there's the guy behind you that he wants to help and will take it out of your pocket to do it. The small business person with take the greatest hit, and that's where the majority of growth comes from. But like I said we can survive but it will be painful. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Lighten up! You take life in here to seriously..BUT.. If I had to 'dump all my Euros, and bury my gold' I would agree with you!Just pokin ya' in the ribbs a bit! Life is to short for worring about what other folks say. I would bet he/she ment no harm at all!
Will,
Hi. I guess I forgot to add the wink,wink. (Gosh, is that ingrained in stuff in a few weeks, huh?)
Hence my comment about iron and rust. It's like compound interest. You get so much more than what you started with, n'est pas?
;0) ;0) there, two winks
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
This question is not an easy one.Basset Hound quotes:"Shiraz Balolia, the president of Grizzly has stated on two different forums that their prices will go up at the end of this year. Now, I realize that they aren't the only company out there selling tools, but the reasons he cited for the higher prices pertain to all companies. Mr. Balolia explained that the rise in their prices was due to the declining dollar and the increase in the cost of steel."I would like to disagree with the Mr. President Balolia. Commodity prices, including the price of steel, have been dropping as we slip into a global recession. The dollar is no longer declining. Manufacturers and retailers have to move their inventories out of warehouses and off the shelves. The U.S. consumer economy is shrinking as I write this post. The supply of consumer goods will likely outstrip demand in the March to August timeframe.I expect to see price declines on imported goods including, yes, those marvelous Grizzly saws. Look for better prices next summer.
Here are my two cents. There is a promotion going on through ebay where you can get 30% off of items purchased through "buy it now". If you can find what you're after on an ebay store, I don't think you can find a better deal. For instance, I just bought an 8" jointer with free shipping, plus $200 off, plus no tax. Hard to beat. I don't know how long the promotion will last although it seems to have been going for a few weeks.
As far as waiting, it looks like prices are continuing to go up. For instance, I sell bicycles as my day job. Many if not most are made in China. Prices on '09 bikes are up as much as 30% on some models. The reasons we're given are rising labor rates in China, increased cost of raw materials(i.e. metal and petroleum products) and increased cost of shipping. Even if shipping decreases, the other two categories are still going up. We started seeing big price increases on pretty much everything from China about two months ago.
I would be willing to bet that any Chinese machinery will follow the same path, but that's only my opinion.
If you want to pursue the ebay deal, you can get details here http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E
david b
Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a shot. ...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Mr. Grizzly would have probably already upped prices as others have but... when you print thousands of catalogs with prices before the crap hits the fan you stand by it. And he can afford it more than others IMO. But regardless... all manufacturers that haven't raised prices will. With the cost of cast iron almost doubling.. labor over there demanding more.. cost of shipping increasing... what ya gonna do.
Steel City is running double rebates until the end of year. There might be other deals out there... ?.... I dunno.
Sarge..
The economic situation is a bummer, 99% of us are just along for the ride.
One thing, General makes a good cabinet saw in Canada that's exported to the US. Right now the US dollar is worth about 15% more than Canadian so there may be some relief on General cabinet saws. They are very good saws.
Don't confuse General equipment with General International that are made in Asia, even though they are pretty good.
I was in the same position three years ago. Retired, and with the desire to improve the equipment in my shop. I had a very tired Craftsman 10" from the middle '6os and looked at everything from a Saw Stop to a Delta Cabinet. I finally went with the Craftsman "hybrid" and am totally pleased with it. It is EXACTLY the same as the Delta hybrid and I waited till "Black Friday"after Thanksgiving , joined the "Craftsman Club" and got the saw for $700 and they delivered it and put it into my garage for $65. I thought it was a great deal and am amazed that this saw hasn't recieved more attention.
Is that the so-called "ZIP-code saw" (has a 5 digit model # that sounds like a ZIP code)?? I've seen a number of posts, mostly at WWA, from people who own that saw and really like it. Especially if it has the better fence.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It comes with a the commercial Biese fence!!
Bais1
Yep, that would be the one. Smart people like you who put together several price reduction goodies really did well!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
What about buying used equipment? I've been amazed at the listings in Craigs list. If you have time what you are looking for is going to be sold at amazingly low costs. Of course you have to go and pick it up but you can find find a saw for $300 that is being offered through Amazon for $550.
Yeah, I understand but see posts 18 & 19 in this thread to understand why I'm not relying on it....The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Old post but I had to reply.. Wait to see the NEW Delta saw. Look nice and made in the USA? I sure hope so.
Yup, what I've heard is good but my budget and space would not accomodate one. Now anyways....The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Beach:
Do you want to make something or speculate in the tool market?
No one can market time, though they may get lucky once in a while.
Buy the saw and enjoy your woodworking and stop trying to second-guess the market.
Hastings
Yup.
Saw <g> the error of my ways and did it....The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
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