Living just North of the border, I am often tempted to hop across the border and buy Festool and Grizzly products which can’t be shipped to Canada. The only thing that’s holding me back is “what happens if something goes wrong – if I need parts or service?” Calling all Canadians: what are your thoughts?
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
– Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. – Albert Schweitzer
Replies
Why can't they be shipped to Canada?
The reason is to protect the Canadian Distributor who may have a different pricing structure. But you can buy Festool, at least some products, in Canada.
http://www.hafele.com/ca-en/New-Festool-coming-May-2008.asp
Most likely they can't be shipped by US dealers to Canada under the dealership agreement with Festool.
I had no idea that that kind of stuff went on. Should be an open border. Trade is trade and political boundries shouldn't get in the way of that.
Thanks for the info...
They just simply say they can't. And won't.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
Let me preface this by saying that I have no specific information about Canada. But I do have many years of experience in obtaining machines and tools that "cannot be shipped". I've imported to Israel a DeWalt RAS, a Hitachi bandsaw, another DeWalt flip-over jobsite saw, some 6 PC routers, and legions of cordless tools and more. All of which are not on the market here and the factory reps didn't want to deal with. Bottom line - go ahead and get whatever you need, wherever it comes from. If you need some parts down the line...you'll work it out. Many things like bearings and drive belts and motors can be found anywhere. And worst case, maybe once in 20 years you'll need to "hop across the border" again and get what you need. Just do it.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
I guess Festool and Grizzly in particular make it difficut for Canadians. Some other brands such as Powermatic which don't advertise much in Canada may in fact be available through a Canadian dealer -- Federated Tool, for instance. I personally prefer to buy from companies with a Canadian presence on the assumption that parts may be available faster. That may be a wrong assumption -- I can recall waiting 3 months for a Delta part that came from the States, even though Delta had a Canadian office. Buying from a good dealer removes a lot of the hassle. I'm very happy with Federated.
I do occasionally order small stuff direct from US dealers, even if they don't take care of taxes and customs. Not long ago I bought some hand tools from Tools For Working Wood, and they arrived in the mail with no customs charge and no taxes. Guess I got lucky.
Jim
I have been buying tools in Bellingham and Seattle for years. Also from Amazon.com. The prices and product availability are better than up here (I live in Surrey). Especially with Festool. Fortunately I have not needed service. But if I had, taking it back south is not a problem. Into the car or trailer you originally used. Just stop on the way south at Canadian customs and tell them what you are doing and they will give you some paper identifying the item so you have no hassles when you pick it up.
Incidently Festool requires that their US dealers NOT sell to Canadians. To protect the overcharging and undersuppling Canadian distributer, Haefle, I suppose. So when I buy a Festool product I use cash instead of a credit card to help the dealer avoid a hassle. One dealer in Bellingham can no longer sell Festool because they determined that he sold to Canadians. It was due to a complaint from Haefle.
And you are in for a treat if you have never seen the Grizzly sales showroom in Bellingham.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Hi Chris,
"what happens if something goes wrong - if I need parts or service?"
That stops me from buying South of the border, at least for pricy tools. I live about 25 miles from the NY border and it would be easy for me. I agree that some tools are not available in Canada and I can live with that. When it comes to prices, my tool retailer is always game to chop the tag to sell tools. As he told me, the more tools he sells, the better prices he gets from companies and the better service he gets also. You can't do that at home centers !
Best,
Serge
- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
I can't speak to the Festool distribution system for Canada except to note that the Canadian distributor's site (Hafele) doesn't make it easy to find specific information or pricing.
Grizzly is unavailable in Canada because the owner of Grizzly and the owner of Busy Bee Tools in Canada are related. Rumour has it that there has been a long-term non-compete agreement between the two companies. FWIW, a non-compete agreement between companies in different countries does not violate any law in either the US or Canada. Busy Bee does NOT carry Grizzly tools but bring in their own from China. Grizzly tools (at least the stationary ones) are better designed and the fit and finish is also better, IMHO. I have been to the showroom in Pennsylvania and personally looked over the tools I intend to buy. They should issue those disposable lobster bibs at the door!
Grizzly will usually ship to the closest FedEx or UPS warehouse or distribution centre but NOT across the border. It's up to the buyer to cross the border and pick up the order. Shipping rates seem completely reasonable for the items I plan to purchase... the 513X2 bandsaw and the 634 combination planer/jointer.
Regards,
Ron
It is a sad fact that protectionism is rife where there is a limited market, either by non-availability or price control. Here in the UK the price of some desirable Canadian products is difficult to understand, apart from the desire to rip off Britain.
Which Canadian products are you desirous of acquiring? I can probably get you a good deal on cold fronts, hockey pucks and maple syrup but I'm afraid all our oil and gas are destined for the U.S. :<))Ron
Daft as it seems, I was swamped with ice hockey pucks as a young boy. My mother had lived in Tilsonburg? from the age of five to adulthood, my grandfather being employed in the fitting out of railcars, and her brothers had been keen players. Ever drawer in the house seemed to contain a battered puck!
I'm in Calgary, and I'm surprised with the amount of Grizzly I see up here... Even Festool... but I'm sure those guys are paying the Canadian premium.
I doubt you'd have any problem with either of those brands. I assume that Grizzly parts are fairly standard. Besides it's not that often that anything breaks. Even if it did, the worst case scenario is that you ship it to a US friend.
As for Festool, given that there is a Canadian distributor, I doubt you'd have a problem. The only real issue I can see is getting a reasonable price for the Festool disposable (sandpaper, dominoes... etc).
Given that we are connected, it really surprises me how difficult it is to get some of the tools up here. Powermatic, Jet, Laguna... all tools I rarely see up here. They're available, but barely. I think someone has to be really dedicated if they wanted to buy one. We are lucky that General is still around I guess.
Yes, it's supplies like Dominoes that are a large concern to me. I don't suppose the sets I can buy at Walmart work. Ah, if only.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
PLEASE NOTE that the following is said with my tongue planted FIRMLY in my cheek......
Is there a higher import duty for new machinery vs. used machinery?? If so, perhaps a 'Knott-head' who lives south of the border would be willing to put a 'few hours' on a machine and then you bring in a 'used' machine at a lower tax rate. Or... you could just buy good used machinery and end the whole problem.
SawdustSteve
I have thought of that - bringing a bag of sawdust down and sprinkling it over the new tools and simulating wear. However, duty is not my greatest concern - it's warranty service and parts, though as I now realize the latter is pretty universal.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Parts are a problem. I needed some plastic bushings for a Jet Sharpener. The bushings fall out after a few months and wear so they need to be replaced. Jet only wants $1.80 each and $18.50 to ship them in an envelope. I thought I had visit my Car Dealer for OEM parts. Signs of the times. <!----><!----><!---->
-----------_o
---------_'-,>
-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
There are no duties for tools coming into Canada for home use that I have had to pay. They just charge both Provincial and Federal taxes. If you have been in the states for the weekend there is a $400.00 exemption and a once a year $700.00 if you're away for a week.Bought a small wood lathe from Grizzly a month ago. The drive belt is a multi grove type and had a slight misalignment in the splice and would lightly chafe the pulley and make a little noise. I went down 2 weeks ago to pick up and order of a metal lathe and milling machine. When I mentioned that I wanted to get a spare belt in case the origional let go someday the salesman said he would give me one on warranty. He checked and there wasn't another in the country so he said he would give me the one from the floor model and proceeded to remove it for me.
Then Quality control didn't want to give me the milling machine until they had opened the crate and checked the table. They had some in Pennsylvania that had some rust on them and they wanted to make sure mine was free of it.To me that's pretty good customer service and I'll put them at the top of my list when comparing future tools.As for Busy Bee. They seem to be at the level that Grizzly and all the early importers started at years ago and never really improved the quality of their products. Too bad. They would do a whole lot better if they partnered up with Grizzly and sold those tools here. Their profits would go up selling better quality tools because of the higher volume.
There is a rumor that Hafele is going to lose the exclusive Canadian rights to distribute Festool. Not heard who yet. I have not had a problem dealing with Hafele, but I know you pay a few extra sheckles to do so.
I repsect the choice of the brother that owns Grizzly not to compete with Busy Bee, but I do think they are in different markets. I have not seen any Busy Bee products that I would use.
You should ask on the Canadian woodwork site. Lots of fellows from Vancouver own Grizzly products and this topic came up a while back.
Brad
I find the Busy Bee Grizzly thing a bit odd. They are non-competetive, but don't sell the same products or quality.
I've avoided Busy Bee 'Craftex' products entirely. A buddy went through three 6" jointers before he got one that worked! I don't know why Grizzly would want to be associated with that type of product.
I totally agree. It is a bit odd. A nice idea for brothers not to compete with one another, but they sell way different stuff. I checked one day when I was looking at a 15" open end wide belt from grizzly to see where they might have market overlaps and I could only find a very few low end items that both offered. I shake my head in dismay when I hear others buying Busy Bee. BB looks like the cheapest import stuff one can find.
Chris, is that a trick question? Having been tempted to "hop across and buy Pestool and Frizzly products" in the first place you merely go in the reverse direction when you need parts or service.(;)
Same here as QCInspector (1 post previous to yours). I have not had to pay duty on home use tools I bring in. They charge you GST/PST and that's it. Do keep that paperwork in case you have to go back for service.
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
The only time I ever get hit is when I drive. If I fly it's no problem. Last time the guy wanted to charge me duty on a Lie Nielsen plane... which is duty free since it's made in the US.
I didn't know you got charge PST I would have assumed it was just GST. But thenagain I don't pay PST in Alberta...
I do a LOT of shopping in the US. I found out long ago that if one is armed with rate of duty (or none as the case may be) there are no hassles. You can find this info on their web site.Tool wise, I have never been charged duty (even on Festool and Grizzly) on a personal use item. I drive there once or twice a week.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Philip,
No it wasn't a trick question. My head is spinning, though. By "go in the reverse direction when you need parts or service", are you referring to getting parts not from the OEM?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris, well maybe (;).
What I was saying was that you can nip back across the border when you need parts or service.Philip Marcou
Laguna tools ships to Vancouver and Toronto every month. You pick up at the truck depot or they can arrange forwarding to your address.
Here's a thought that just poped-up in my mind: 100 years ago there was not such delemma; just hand tools !
Best,
Serge
- Learn from yesterday, work today, and enjoy success tomorrow -
http://www.atelierdubricoleur.org
Simple. Buy something else or take the risk.
I doubt that there is anything sold buy Grizzly that is going to be a problem within the warranty period.
Don
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled