Hi everyone,
I am a brand new woodworker, I took my first ever class 2 weeks ago. I am now looking to start accumulating some tools so I can keep practicing the skill I learned in my class. However, I’m also still a newlywed with very little money to spend on such tools. I am looking for suggestions, on what the most important tools are, so I know what to buy first. I’m a bit overwhelmed at the moment because it appears that I’m going to have to spend several thousand dollars just to get started, and I don’t have that.
Also if you could recommend places to buy discount or used tools, that would help me immensely. Thank you in advance for your help!
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Replies
You might consider starting with hand tools suited to the type of projects you'll be doing about the house. I'd start with a good square, a marking knife, a decent crosscut saw, a couple of decent chisels, clamps, etc. (You get the drift.) Add tools as the budget allows, or the project justifies.
Welcome to the woodworking community.
Try craigslist.com for your area. You can generally get a fairly good price on used tools.
Good luck and enjoy.
Edited 7/24/2009 11:08 am by Boogalee
In addition to what Ralph said,
Welcome,
You ask much. Too much for one post perhaps so this is just a hint.
Before you buy tools, think about that you want to do with them...what kind of projects.
Also be aware that not all home owner tools (especially those recommended by the Borge or Television shows) translate to woodworking caliber tools and not everything must be powered and nothing requires you to do all by hand although once or twice is a good learning experience...enough to know that you may want to go that route.
Many here use power tools at the initial stages and then finish with hand tools.
The first and foremost tool that I would recommend is a sturdy solid work bench with one or more vises. This can be cheap, out of doug fir. In the process of building it you will learn much. You will need this more than any other tool no matter which route you go -- Power or hand. As to the rest..don't look to global, keep focus on your current needs. You don't have to understand it all or how it all interacts - all at once.
One of the first things you will need to work on are methods and tools that can reduce raw goods to the sizes and thickness you need for a project.
A fine hand saw, in untrained hand, tedious but good. A circular saw with clamps and a straight edge, A table saw for many, many things. A band saw for the same reason and many believe safer. Stick to the major brands of both for these and ask here. A way to flatten your stock. Until you can afford it a jointer, a good #7 or #6 hand plane plane. There are excellent cheap chisels - LV, Narex etc. Until you know what your doing, watch our for buying used equipment. Re fitting it takes time away from your woodworking and can become more expensive that a new piece.
Concentrate first on tools that will help you "4-square" your stock and then only buy the tools that you will need to complete a given project and then make sure that they will have further use down the line. Buy the best tool you can afford but don't overbuy. Bright and shiny is nice but spendy and white pot metal gives a lot of grief. There are some discount tool places but usual you would reserve such buys for replaceable items or tools that don't reflect in the final look of the piece. Buy your real tools slowly from good sources.
Unless you inherit, you will not be able to get all you need and still you will need more.
At this stage, also make plans on ways of keeping your tools safe - rust/ storage etc. You will have them for life.
Learn all about everything about every tool you buy. Safety, it's use, real cost, and it's care. On the "real" cost of a table saw for example, it will also include, blades, fences, miter gauges, sliding tables, dust collection. and more...)
Many here will give you much information. Get a sense of what most say about a given tool and you will usually have gotten good information.
Buy real wood, as much as you can and start. Have patience and enjoy the journey.
Ask questions.
And always keep your eyes, and lungs safe and hands behind the business end of any tool.
Good luck.
Boiler
Well said, Boiler. Amen to all of that.
Jimhttp://www.jimreedy.com
This is usually a can of worms from what I have seen on several forums. The tools depend on what you want to build. I started with a good contractors saw, a bench top router table, a scroll saw, and a bench top disk/belt sander as my power tools. This was rather limiting but I only had the budget at the time to do small projects, i.e. boxes, picture frames,etc... Space is also a big consideration. The best advice I can give both hearing from others and personal experience is, don't buy junk tools. Get the best you can afford at the time. Harbor Freight is not the place to buy power tools, or hand tools that have more then 1 working part hehe. Anyway good luck, have fun and stay safe.
Shane
P.S. I must have been posting at the same time as boilerbay so +1 to all he said. He said it much better then I.
Edited 7/24/2009 11:25 am ET by SRogers93
It really depends what type of work you see yourself doing, and how production-minded you are. I have a shop with the big power tools that I need, but just as much, if not moreso, I enjoy working in my benchroom, working quietly with hand tools only. Often, when winding down for the evening, I don't sit down in front of the TV or computer - I go down to the workshop and build something quietly. A few of the tools I use most for this are chisels, a block plane, sqaure, marking gauge, pencil and marking knife, and a Japanese handsaw. Carving is also a lot of fun and doesn't require much space or a large initial investment, though carving tools generally run from $20-30 each.
and www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
k,
You already have two of the best tools one could have and both are free! Please, please fill out some info. in your Profile - don't have to be specific but at least a general idea where you are. Who knows, someone here who's familiar with your neck of the woods might be able to help you more. Folks in here are from all over the world.
The second freebie is Knots. I think you'll find many knowledgeable people here and offer their help freely. If we don't know the answer you can bet we know someone who does.
I do think deciding what kinds of projects you see yourself doing in the near future is the best place to start.
Welcome to Knots,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 7/24/2009 5:11 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Thanks so much for all your help and advice. I went ahead and updated my profile. I'll be taking everyone's advice, and hope to become more involved in the forums here. Thanks again, and if you have any more tips or advice for me it will always be appreciated!Kyle
Here is a good article / e-book on this subject:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/icandothat/
Start with some basics, add new things as your project needs (and justifies) them.
The best advice I ever got was to buy quality tools. Cheap ones don't last and don't work well. You do not need to buy premium tools, just aim for a step above the Joe Garage DIY'er quality.
Welcome to the world of woodworking, and to Knots. I will second the suggestion of Craig's List, and caution that you be selective. When you decide you need a certain tool, research which brand will work for you given your budget -- the one that will perform the best and last the longest at your price point. Feel free to start a thread any time you want some input on a particular tool, being sure to give us a price range and what kind of work you might be doing.
I think it would be good if you gave more details, which may result in better advice.
What sort of class did you attend ie was it based on hand tool use or machines, or a combination? I think that one needs to learn basic hand tool use first, but that is another question.
What sort of woodworking do you want to do eg are you wanting to make your own furniture?
Do you have a budget?
By "tools" do you mean hand tools or machines?
If I were you, I would follow the casket thread and see if you can get written into the will... Some generous folks around here with their time and thoughts, you might get lucky!
Seriously though, I got my first power tool at 17. A Jen-u-ine Sears and Robuck table saw. It still works for a friend of mine 40 years later, and served me well. I also used the community college system and kept flunking classes so I could retake the woodworking class. Worked out well, 2 nights a week in class building an entertainment center and a chest of drawers. I had a few hand tools and could do some work at home, cutting dovetails etc, and use the power machines at the school.
Glad to see you here, and we will all look forward to seeing pictures of your work.
AZMO
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
"I got my first power tool at 17. A Jen-u-ine Sears and Robuck table saw. It still works for a friend of mine 40 years later, and served me well."Bet you're kicking yourself for "upgrading" to that hybrid of yours!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
>Bet you're kicking yourselfYes but for a different reason. I tried to do the math on that one and failed.>still works for a friend of mine 40 years laterI had to look up your profile to be sure I read it right that you are twenty something now. Yep. nice pic by the way !I am going to give up on the math. Jim Kingshot said "woodworkers can't do math anyway that is why they became woodworkers; just use a story stick".I would put a pic in my profile but not sure the world is ready for something that awful. I am mulling.PS: never mind. I read the post from AZMO. Now I get it. You were putting in what he said before. The computer forum I used to hang out in had a feature that put the text to be referred to in a blue rectangle so it was clear. I skipped around and missed AZMO's post so I was lost. Well I may still be lost but I get this small thing now. Never mind. Carry on. Don't mind me.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 7/26/2009 12:40 am by roc
Oh, yeah. Almost forgot about that pic. How a bout a pic of your legendary 54-degree blade doing it's thing?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Oh hi Chris,Well this is going to sound like a big giant back pedal but my sole camera to my name and in this house hold is my iPhone. First gen = no focus or zoom to speak of. There is no way I could show hair on my arm or other wise. I might get a zoom thing but only vaguely aware of what is out there.I will try latter to pic. a pile of hair but to be honest, or dishonest, I could easily fake it by shaving with a less formidable weapon and putting the hair on the mighty 54. Come to think of it I will have to shave most of the hair off one of my legs to get enough to show up in the photo.: )So what I recommend, since you can do anything I can do, is to flatten all of your stones and using the veritas jig carefully work through all the stone grits using my method of meticulously cleaning off the last grit from the blade and roller etc.stones: 700, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000When on the 8000 don't press too hard and work both back and front until the wire edge starts to let go; may need magnification to see this. Keep rinsing metal chips (wire edge swarf ) off the stone and repeat a few times until no wire edge and viola you are the proud father of a shaving 54. Kind of like I sent it to you via e-mail.The back of the blade must be flat clear to the edge; no cheating with ruler though ruler useful for less critical work. Then make the back a mirror CLEAR TO THE EDGE.It can take a long time to cut the back flat. Use magnification to verify via the scratch pattern/lack of.I know I shouldn't be taking this too seriously but hey, I'm a nerd.
: )
Hope all is going well with you and your travel was all you hoped it would be.PS: MAN I FEEL SO STUPID ! ! ! I AM JUST WAKING UP. YOU MENT FOR MY PROFILE PHOTO
Ha, ha, ha, aaahhhh, Ha, ha, ha, haIf somebody had a bet you could get me to talk about sharpening looks like they won.all I can say is what Church Lady used to say " Neeevvver Miiiinnnnd ".
Good idea though.I would delete but all that drivel of mine may help Kyle.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 7/28/2009 12:00 am by roc
You must be tired. In your last two posts to me, you ended up going the wrong way. Not that there is a wrong way, though. I think that my lack ability to shave with my blades is attributed to my incompetence in shaving, rather than sharpening.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
>You must be tired. . . you ended up going the wrong way. Not that there is a wrong way, though. <Yes I am sure you are correct sir. (?) There is something to be said for very brief responses on knots. Most of what I can say for them is not positive. I hope that makes sense. I am going for brevity for a change.I am sure all your blades shave when you want to make'm do that. It was just that last we 54ed together that was the only one that wasn't. I never heard back that it came together for you . I hadn't made the connection about blade pic and the profile.I just figured you were funning me about whether it actually was possible to shave with a 54 and wanted a pic. I know there are many that doubt there is a 54 promised land.As I said I had just woke up. Before rolling out of bed I looked at the weather on line and my e-mails. Being heavily addicted t Knots I must have a look and a type before starting my day. You know. Some people have a cig. I have a type.I am trying to quit. I have given up the computer chat room entirely so that is a start.>your last two posts to me, you ended up going the wrong way<Chris do you see that I put the little magic arrows at the beginning and at the end of the sentence above ? And included a bit of dialog from your post to me. I am not sure what the totally cool guy thing to do to indicate what the heck I am referring to from a previous post is but if you would use these little magic arrows this would be a good start toward keeping me from being tired.Being such an "Old Guy" I loose track of what I may have said a day or two ago to one of the veritable plethora of friendly and fascinating chaps and chapets ( can't think of the female of chap other than " birds " and I don't think that is smart to use here ) here on Knots so I need reminded of just what the heck we are homing in on.Fascinating how that works isn't it ? A pair of these "><" and I am less tired.So much for brevity. I hope I didn't wear you out with this long post old chap.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )Edited 7/27/2009 9:42 pm by rocEdited 7/27/2009 9:44 pm by roc
Edited 7/28/2009 12:12 am by roc
roc,
How is Queenmasteroftheuniversebunnytrainer doing? Are you buried in hares?
I remember riding in the pickup with Uncle Stewart and we went past a field and we counted 23 bunnies in it. A month later we counted 72 in the same field. I too chased them whilst flapping my arms, but I guess to no avail.
I am concerned you might be uh, under the gun so to speak.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 7/27/2009 10:14 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
>Queenmasteroftheuniversebunnytrainer<She is doing good. May have found a new gallery to show her paintings.She was emphatic that I be specific that it is "BABY" bunnytrainer. Doesn't want anyone getting the wrong idea.: )All end of winter/spring we had a family of three or four. Big buck, momma and two littl'ns.These days all we ever see is the one baby. Haven't seen him for days. It has been raining with lightening two or three times a day . . . every day so I would hole up to. It's weird weather though. Once a day and hard used to be the norm back in the eighties. Nothing has been right for a long time. Droughts for a decade. Now this. I love rain though so I am not complaining. I got to ride home in it on my bike and I still love it. I have nerd fenders so no prob.Don't forget the eagles and hawks. Never seen'em take one but must be part of the menu.>chased them whilst flapping my arms, but I guess to no avail.<Yep that is what my parents used to do when I was a kid when I got together with my girl friends. Oops I shouldn't have said that.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Roc,Back at 54, I established that I would first have to learn to shave with a low-angle blade before attempting a high-angle. It's just not a test I am used to. Nor do I feel that it is necessary, save for the visual reassurance. If you look at my profile pic, you can tell that I have not shaved for a while. (I'll blame it on not enough time!) I do believe what you say about the abilitities of a 54."I put the little magic arrows at the beginning and at the end"You use magic arrows, I use two pairs of enchanted, dancing lines before and after the quote with a space before and after.>Coffee<You awake now, fully completely?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
The closer you get to your nose the better you will become.....
<!----><!----><!---->
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
Yo daddyo and welcome,
I am going to come from a bit of a different angle and say your book shelf and this magazine especially the old back issues; get the latest computer disc,
http://store.taunton.com/onlinestore/item/fine-wood-archive-dvd-011302.html
are going to be very important. That disc is bucks but a full set of this FWW mag can be five or six hundred dollars ( get the mags too when you can ) Books and mags may be theee most important tools. Here are some top shelf recommendations from one who reads too much but still can cut to the line occasionally:
These two books will be very enlightening as to what can be accomplished with almost nothing but a few fine hand tools. ( yes I use some power tools. I recommend you get a band saw as soon as possible or sooner but until then ) These books will put you in the right frame of mind and create a reverence for fore thought, details in HOW you do things and skill building.
http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Woodworking-Tools-Tradition-Spirit/dp/0941936465/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=booksqid=1248496959&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Shoji-Toshio-Odate/dp/0941936473/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=booksqid=1248497007&sr=1-2
I am not saying you should buy Japanese tools. It is just that Mr Odate has a lot to teach about hand tool work and the reverence and mindset to do great work.
The following is THEEE BEST modern PRACTICAL 'what is wood working about' books
http://www.amazon.com/Nick-englers-woodworking-wisdom-Engler/dp/0762101792/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=booksqid=1248497045&sr=1-1
Sharpening stuff will be a biggy also. The Toshio books will help with that some.
Good luck ! You have noooo idea the depth of the well you are about to jump into ! There is sooo much more to fine woodworking than . . . I just don't have the words . . .
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 7/25/2009 1:07 am by roc
Edited 7/25/2009 1:08 am by roc
Edited 7/25/2009 1:11 am by roc
Edited 7/25/2009 1:22 am by roc
Don't forget the library. My local one has dozens of books on woodworking and related topics.
>Don't forget the librarySo true. That is where I used to go to read and reread the James Krenov books. That was before much was happening on the internet. Local book shops never got them in used. We have two of the three in our local Library. I a few years ago I finally ordered all three for my shelf.Sounds like I better get busy and explore Charles Hayward's Cabinet Making for Beginners.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Welcome to the hobby!
Building up a shop full of tools is a major problem for all but the very few with an unlimited budget. I have been at this well over 30 years and hope to have my shop complete sometime in the next 20 years or so.
Exactly what you need to buy first is largely up to you and based on what you want to do in woodworking. But, keep in mind that the project list often changes dramatically as your inventory of tools and skills grows. For most, the table saw is the heart of the shop. But, even that can change depending on what you want to build.
One thing that remains a constant is to get the best machines and tools you can afford. The process of buying cheap and then working your way up to the one you really wanted is by far the most expensive way of doing it. I have proved that theory several times in my quest for good machines. See the link below for a story I wrote on that point. I also have lots of tool reviews that give you details about specific tools that might give you some more informatoin on which to base future decisions.
Have fun but be safe first!
http://www.newwoodworker.com/buytools.html
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
Enthusiasm is a marvellous motivator - welcome to woodworking, it will be with you for life.
While I might sound like a killjoy, I strongly encourage you to think of yourself as an apprentice. The best tutor you can have is your determination to learn. Learn by doing things again and again - always improving technique and accuracy (like learning to drive a stick shift auto), whether measuring, planing, sawing.
To do this all you need are a few second-hand hand tools - stay away from power tools, you learn little that way. And practice on packing case timber until you are blue in the face. But you will become confident and proud of your new-found skills,and you will know when you are ready to tackle a project.
You will be amazed at what you can do with those old hand tools.
Fulfilling times ahead.
Lapun.
>(like learning to drive a stick shift auto),I have a sort of interesting or at least instructive NERD MOMENT to relate around that.I had just got out of high school. Was dying to move out of the parent's house. Great people but you know. Any way . . . I had taken driver's ed. and all the cars we drove including my parents 442 olds two door which practically idled at 90 mph when my Dad got to talking to visitin family over his shoulder . . . oops that is another story . . .Any way all the cars I had ever driven were automatics.I took a job where we did alot of landscape work and also worked in an attached business that pored concrete in a casting plant. One of the first things I was asked to do was "take this dump truck down to so and so and have him load it with concrete casting plant floor scrapings then take them to the dump.I had never driven a clutch. ( : {However I had grown up around hot rodders, lots of car people and had studied clutch assemblies out of curiosity as part of my various magazines about hot rods. When I was about twelve.( most all of the people I could approach had floor stick automatics though ) dohh !OK. Deep breath time. Shaking; afraid I was about to loose the job that was going to get me out of the house and into the "real world" that I craved I imagined my magazines, I imagined how the parts worked, I very slowly began to work the throttle and clutch as I imagined that they must be worked to get the truck to move. Lucky the truck was powerful and empty.And away we went no problem. No body the wiser.Magazines and books bail out the nerd once again !WhewhrocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
I love it... REALLY!
One of the first things I was asked to do was "take this dump truck down to so and so and have him load it with concrete casting plant floor scrapings then take them to the dump.
.. My story
When I went into the Army at Fort Hood.. Just out of Basic Training at Fort Hood.. Maybe it was a test?.. I have no idea.
I was told to get my 'New out of the factory' Tank Retriever.. M88? number something...
It was on a flat bed RR car and hung off the sides. Just the RR car was left there by a 'drive off?' with a ramp... I had no idea what a Tank Retriever was!
Somehow I figured out how to start it and sort of drove it off the RR car without tipping it over and killing me.. I sure sweated alot in the process...
After it was on EARTH! I looked around and found some automatic weapons inside..
I got the box and jumped into my Jeep that I got there with and went back to tell the Captain what I found.. I thought a Quarter Master handed out these things..
Ya know what? The FBI was in his office! Smartest thing I ever did outside of marring my wife.... Army never tells you anything but I was told that there were thefts from trains going to Fort Hood.. FBI tracking the shipment..
My Captain and this young whippersnapper grunt got along after.... Probably made HIM look good! Not me...
I sure loved machine guns... And a new .45 Thomson in there with a .50 and two .30 Browning... I DID want to keep it ALL!
Best thing I ever did for my Military experiences,,,, Was a good grunt....
K,
Welcome to the craft!
You have already gotten a lot of good advice here - not the least of which is that KNOTS is a great tool. Consider a subscription to the FWW magazine online too. The ability to access the .pdf copies of past articles is worth the price. When I'm about to embark on a project, I always come here to FWW online, type in some key words and print 6 or 8 related articles. Then I go get a cup of coffee, sit down and get ready to move into my project with the collective insight of the likes of Mario Rodriguez, Phil Lowe, Garret Hack, Steve Latta, etc...
OK, so here's my hunk of advise on setting up shop.
#1 Space - go claim some hunk of space that is going to be yours. The usual suspects are the corner of a basement or garage.
#2 Bench - In two years you won't have this bench any more or it will be moved to some other function so don't go crazy with it. Build a sturdy base from construction grade lumber (look for KD or kiln dried when you buy it; they sell a lot of green stuff that will twist up on you as it dries in your shop.# Make the top from an old solid core door or a couple thicknesses of plywood. Leave overhang all around for clamping. You might slap a vice on this thing after a while, but good vises will come with your second workbench.
#3 A triangle of power tools for dimensioning stock. These include a table saw, a jointer and a thickness planer. Here's my reasoning. Unless your stock is accurately sized, with crisp edges and ends square to the face of the board and unless both faces of that board are parallel to each other, learning good joinery will be next to impossible. Without this fundamental skill, your carcass parts won't come together square and won't take a drawer or door properly; not to mention you won't be able to make a good drawer or door without properly prepared stock. There are plenty of good articles here on FWW on how to dimension or ' four square' your stock using these three machines.
#And no, pre-dimensioned or S4S stock is not ready to go. It, too, will need some work on the jointer, table saw and planer for making furniture.#
Table Saw - Find a good used one. To keep the cost down look for a Contractors Saw #open stand, motor hangs below and to the rear with a belt driven arbor.# Go for a cast iron table #the wings might be stamped steel, open grid or melamine - just make sure the central table secretion is cast iron. Avoid bench top saws and saws that are not belt driven. You can probably find a good used contractor's saw for around $200. Don't shy away from Craftsman at this level if it has the cast iron top.
Jointer - You can probably find a good used 6" short bed, open stand jointer out there for $100 - $150.
Planer - A good used 12 inch lunchbox planer can probably be found in the area of $100 - $150.
You're going to want better tools and you will be upgrading over the years. If I thought you were ready to spend $6 or $7k I'd make different recommendations. But I take myself back to your situation and figure you want to get started under $1000 or so and will need some cash for glue, clamps and other essentials.
I have not mentioned any hand tools. Here's why. Foursquaring stock is the essential, fundamental platform on which almost everything else depends. While doing this with hand tools is considerably more satisfying, it also takes much much more practice to build the necessary skills. Unless you're working alongside an experienced woodworker as you learn, this is just going to take too much time and cause frustration. Back in the day, people apprenticed for years alongside experienced craftsmen learning these skills.
I have a hunch that after you build your basic shop and get a little experience, you will better understand the benefits of a hand cut joint; of finishing the machined surface of a board with a hand plane and scraper; of tweaking your fits and joints with chisels, shoulder, router and rabbeting planes. I think, in today's world, where we hobbiest tend to work solo, hand tool work is best incorporated gradually into a shop where we use power and hand tools together for the best results.
Good luck with the shop!
Come back often and keep us posted.
Frank
Welcome welcome! I can only give you how I've done it but note I started years ago(I'm talkin years). Set a budget that you negotiated with your better half. I would put a bit away of each paycheck and when I had enough I would get one tool. Also you will have to consider your space. How much space do you have to dedicate to your hobby. I started in a one bedroom apartment and put a tarp down on the living room floor and cut the boards with a cheapo Lowes table top table saw and some hand tools that my dad left me. Was it as nice as I have now with a big TS, no, but it got the job done. Consider hand tools. A couple good hand planes and knowledge can do what any power tool can. To me the basics is start with flat square stock. If you don't frustration will rule the day. Craigslist is a good place for used tools but be careful buying used could be buying troubles as well. Get some good books as well. Taunton and others make some good ones. You asked for some other links here are a few of my favorites
http://www.irsauctions.com/?flash=9 (used tools)
http://www.antiquesbuiltdaily.com/ (Charles is great and His vids are fantastic for easy learning)
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/ (good vids)
http://barbomachinery.com/default.asp (used tools)
http://www.woodweb.com/ (great source for tools wood advice)
http://www.woodfinder.com/marketplace.php (wood)
http://www.woodworkweb.com/ (multiple topics)
I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.
George Burns
Waco, TX !!
WOW.. I was in Fort Hood Texas about 1960.
No, I was not a beer drinking kind. I loved Jack Daniels.. I loved Waco texas! And I never started a fight. Finished a few.. And lost more of them.. I just love the old road houses they had then. And I had my first Black Cow I drank was in Killeen? Texas... And my first boiled peanuts in a bottle of Dr. Pepper! LOL..
Anyway... Do not do anything at the moment.. Do not buy any tools.. Think of something you want to make for whatever project... Think about want you want to make and draw/sketch it out... Get some scrap wood to make it! Watch out for hidden nails!
OK, so get a bottle of glue, a cheep saw (Bear Saw) A Bear saw is a PULL saw. Works great.. and go for it! I forgot about clamps you will need MANY OF! And you go from there.. Have fun with scrap wood first! And Learn!
http://hammernet.com/vaughan/pages/products/bear-saw-hand-saws.php
Yes it is a pull saw...
Try to make it!!! It does not matter how it turns out.. Just remember what happened with the wood and how 'you' think of what you would need to correct it!
I was allowed to live OFF Base.. Nollanville? Long ago and sort of a dream!
kmausmus,
Watch me get banned for this reply.
Start by investing a couple dollars in a good book. There isn't anything out there that can compare with Charles Hayward's Cabinet Making for Beginners. It's out of print but you can get it here cheap. Use this forum for amusement, if read and understand Hayward's book you'll know more than an overwhelming majority of people here.
For some hands-on fun while you read get yourself a cheap 1" chisel, a cheap grinder, a single point dressing wheel, a medium India sharpening stone, a hard Arkansas sharpening stone, an extra coarse diamond stone and teach yourself to sharpen. Use the diamond stone only to maintain your oil stones.
Start to seriously accumulate tools and subscribe to magazines only after you understand Hayward's book because you need to be able to separate the BS from information you might be able to use. There are a lot more professional writers writing books and articles on woodworking than professional woodworkers writing woodworking books and articles. This leads to a lack of trade practices showing up in articles and those trade practices provide simple, direct and easy techniques to dependable results. Those reinventing the wheel will lead you down a lot of blind alleys.
Use this forum for amusement, if read and understand Hayward's book you'll know more than an overwhelming majority of people here.
ME? in them words!
Sir you are mistaken.. Many very smart folks in here.. We all have opinions!
And I would say.. Get the book By Stephen Hawking.. The Universe in a Nut Shell.
After reading book you will learn that a human can do anything if they try on their own..
And I agree with you post.. Just seemed a bit harsh to us 'common folks'..
Edited 7/25/2009 9:14 pm by WillGeorge
Sorry Will. My frame of mind while posting that was very much set by a link in bones' post. I wasn't familiar with the site and went to his link at http://www.woodworkweb.com/ . There I scrolled down until something peaked my interest. I clicked on the scraper video. I don't have a clue who that guy is but anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of woodworking history knows his "history of the scraper" is pure fantasy and I'll bet the guy can't cite a source for any of his information. There's way too much of this BS out there--so much the web is becoming pretty useless because it's nearly impossible for anyone without a pretty good knowledge base to find anything useful in all the noise.
Sir.. I have no idea how to respond. I think a bit different. I can find something useful to me even in all the noise. To me learning is both.. Good and bad experiences. To me, even if I do not like something I will watch/listen to it's finish.. Sometimes I never learn a thing but very often I do! Maybe just from a word said like in the video.. 'scraper', 'clicker' .. I may have fun today researching 'scraper' and 'clicker'.. I'd bet IU'd find something that supports his words.
I watched the video and found nothing objectionable about it. I have seen better videos on sharpening a scraper but still useable in a general sort of way. Not sure I like him using a screwdriver for a burnisher or the way the file was was not lifted off the surface between strokes.
I use my scrapers ALOT! More that sandpaper, but I am not above using sandpaper either. And I usually use my scraper 'flat' as in just filed at 90 degrees and I have a few at approximately 45 degrees. I for one, only bother to put a 'hook' on when the wood refuses to work with my shortcut finished scrapers. I guess that make me a nut...
I have to admit the 'clicker' part I never have heard of. Not sure I could hear it 'click' anyway. Old Armored Artillery mechanic here.. We had 8 and 5 inch guns... And some 155's. My ears are shot!
Yes, much 'noise' out there.. And the local public library is also full of noise... Even noise has it's merits.. Like many old records my mother has from the WWII years. They are thick and made of Bakelite? They are worn out and full of hiss and rumbles.. I love them! All Big Band songs....
I would say using things found in books or the Web has to be viewed in context of what your mind believes or does not believe. We are all different in our judgements on what we see, hear.. or better yet.. experience in real life!
Just like your bad thoughts on the scraper video. It may not be to your standards or mine.. BUT I'd bet you could do a pretty good job of finishing some wood anyway just doing what he did in the video...
And I have no problem with your post either..
I have no proof... BUT I would think woodworkers 3000 years ago used clam shells or a hunk of Flint to scrape wood. Maybe even sanded wood with sandstone or shark skin!
Yeah the library has "noise," it's called the fiction section. The guy in the video says sand paper has only become popular in the last 50 or 60 years. Where did he get that? There are a lot of old inventories out there if one only looks. For instance the 1800 Christopher Gabriel inventory lists 11 reams and six quire of emery paper plus one ream of sand paper. That's a lot of sand paper! Find that much in your local lumber yard or hardware store today. Maybe Christopher Gabriel didn't get that video presenter's memo or maybe he got a bargain on it and thought he'd keep it in his inventory for a couple hundred years?Did you find anything on the "clicker?" On the face of it, that's pure nonsense. How long do your scraper edges last? How many scrapers do you have? Do you suppose they stopped production when all their scrapers were dull? What did they call the guy who came around and sharpened their pencils?I prefer it to tickle when someone blows smoke up my rear end. That guy's BS didn't tickle and I never made it past his fictional version of history. Why do you think it's okay to make this cr@p up?
... Why do you think it's okay to make this cr@p up...
Because I do not think he did. Maybe something he remembered from something he read? Who knows?
... And.. Yeah the library has "noise," it's called the fiction section.
I would add most novels and the like are 'noise' to me. Yes I am strange. I now only read History, Science, Astronomy and Woodworking books. OK, so I love poetry and things from old newspaper writers also... I will read anything as long as I do not fall asleep after page 10....
>>>>>
I was trying to find something in a reprint of a Sears 1902 catalogue. (The spelling on the books cover)..
Anyway, the index stated page 515 for sandpaper and scrapers. I do not have that page. In fact, the book I have, has many missing pages. I think it was printed that way. My best guess (yes, just a guess I repeat.... I am full of 'noise') would be that the steel scraper was very inexpensive compared to sheets/rolls of sandpaper. I'd bet sandpaper was not readily available until some years after 3M was founded. 1900? Maybe 10/20 years after? I have no idea...
And I would think something as specialized as sandpaper in 1900 (before and for 20 years after) would be very expensive compared to metal tools.
And I'd bet the wood worker was saving up for a Winchester Model 1894 30-30 caliber. That rifle cost $15.00! Plus shipping? What did he care about sandpaper?Yes, sandpaper has been around awhile. I believe the first recorded record is 13th century China. (More noise) I recall reading something that the Egyptians used copper scrapers for working wood. And I would not be surprised if they did not use shaped sandstone.They had mountains of it.
My grandfather was a cabinet maker. WW1 artillery officer. NO, not WWII.. He and his friends took care of Chicago's,, WOODEN ...Street Cars..
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/woods02.html
He lived to be very old... 95 plus... I know for a fact that he never used sandpaper. He used hand scrapers and files. I have watched him (and his many wood friends) work in his shop (with my brother) for many, many hours. No, he never told me he did not use sandpaper. I just never saw him use it. I did see him and his friends use scrapers. Some, I would bet, were made from old files and saw blades...
I will leave it at that because you seem to hate others for no logical reason!.. Almost anybody on Earth can be a true friend.. You scare them off in the second sentence!
Edited 7/28/2009 12:11 pm by WillGeorge
Hi Will,I am catching heck my self. Seems to be the way it is.Scrapers from files. Thick. Philip was talking about those quite a while ago. First I had heard of one.Sounds like they were used back in your grandfather's time. Thanks for the History lesson.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
47481.48 in reply to 47481.47
Hi Will,
I am catching heck my self. Seems to be the way it is. And it IS what makes life worth living!
My grandfather was a mean old cuss~ As were his friends... They were WWI vets that survived sort of with liveable wounds..
As long as I was very quiet when grandfather said to me.. To be.. We got along..
Never understood how he switched from one moment to another.. From Jekyll or Hide... And he never hurt me much.. OK.. so I screamed as he pulled my ear to get me to go out to play OUTDOORS!
I understand now... He was not a mean man.. Maybe just frustrated with life he had to live alone with some child that made his life with ripples in there.. I understand now......
>Start by investing a couple dollars in a good bookSee there ? We think a like. Scary isn't it ?rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Larry, you do make a fair point regarding the credentials of some writers and the veracity of their take on woodworking subjects. I do see quite an amount of words produced in printed form and on the internet from authors of dubious credibility, and their output is sometimes less than useful.
There is now the capability to spread both good and bad information widely and quite quickly through the medium of the internet. And, as you hint, it's hard to sift through the mass of information to get to the good stuff and dismiss that of poor quality.
Even respected authors on the subject, any subject for that matter, get things wrong. Hayward himself provided less than stellar guidance on some subjects: some of his polish reviver recipes in his book Staining and Polishing cause darkening problems for example. Ernest Joyce's veritable tome The Technique (aka Dictionary) of Furniture Making includes dovetail layout errors, and other errors that I can't recall just off the top of my head.
Anyway, you are correct in saying it can be difficult for a researcher to sift through all the information out there and decide which is good and which is poor. Generally speaking I'd say the best authors on any topic have serious credentials of one sort or another behind their name. That doesn't mean, in the woodworking field for example, they have to be in the trade, nor necessarily qualified in the field, but it's their credentials and standing gained through the validity of their written output over a decent period of time that counts.
It's also the case that excellent and extremely knowledgeable workers or professionals in their field don't necessarily have a capacity to write and communicate their information, nor even teach what they know one-on-one. Some do, but some don't, and there's everything in between. Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com
Richard,I didn't say Hayward was perfect. I did recommend his book which is the very best general woodworking book I'm aware of. If you know of a better one or even one that approaches the depth and completeness of Hayward's, I'd like to know about it. I don't think Joyce's book is as good, especially when it comes to hand tool woodworking.
I'll have to refresh my memory of the contents of Hayward's book in the library in the next few days. I haven't looked at it for perhaps twenty five or thirty years, but it might be a good ifea to do a bit of side to side comparison between that and Joyce.
Joyce's tome is a difficult book from which to extract the information. There's a mass of information in it, but it's not really laid out in a reader friendly format. I've been consulting it on and off since the early 1970s and I guess I've got used to the format now and pretty much know where to go without consulting the index or chapter headings.
As to recommending a better book than Hayward I can't say that I can, particularly, to reiterate, as I don't recall all the contents of Hayward's. There are certainly useful books that provide good information for beginners such as Jackson and Day's The Collins Complete Woodworker, but that book title mention doesn't mean it's better, but it's still a good one. Slainte. richardjonesfurniture.com
Larry, since my last post I've had chance to go and look at a copy of Hayward's Cabinet Making for Beginners to refresh my memory on its contents. I agree, it is a very good introduction to the essentials of basic woodworking techniques. Its appearance, layout and format are quaint compared with today's preferences for great use of colour and photographs, but the information is, on the whole, very good. Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com
> Unless you're working alongside an experienced woodworker as you learn, this is just going to take too much time and cause frustration. Back in the day, people apprenticed for years alongside experienced craftsmen learning these skills.
This is very, very accurate info.
Unless you are going to get set up with A FEW power tools right off all I can say is Pain is your friend.
Get away from it when you get frustrated. A day or two and some sleep and the next session will be easier and click faster than if you stayed up all night until you "get it right". Get away from it but always show up for the next battle.
Soon you will be " strong like bull ". Simian grip, eagle sight and cat box reflexes help too.
PS: be careful of the packing case wood. The pallets are full of grit and dirt that is going to eat your nice sharp tools for breakfast and you will be until dinner time getting them sharp again. Unless they are sharp you might as well chuck them in a river.
Do some searches here on Knots for sharpening. To learn what sharp means. The discussions are entertaining as Larry said. I will refrain from going on about sharpening to everyones relief. Lets just say brand new exacto blades are not particularly well sharpened from a woodworkers perspective.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 7/26/2009 1:24 am by roc
Edited 7/26/2009 1:28 am by roc
Just when I was sure I couldn't hog this thread any longer I got to thinking of the books Larry spoke of written by people who primarily write rather than by people who primarily work wood.
What a mess of wasted publications. I have some idea of what he is referring to, thinking back over a few of the books I have on the shelf. Nice thick well bound hard backs from the fifties, sixties and seventies. And later in paper backs.
How to know when you finish the book if it is the real thing.
Here is a suggestion as an acid test:
• A basic wood working book should recommend for best accuracy the use of " story sticks " rather than just the use of tape measures and an arsenal of rulers.
• There should be some mention of wetting the wood with water or paint thinner for planing end grain and for other instances.
If these are not in the book chances are the rest of the info is crap or they are with holding key info to get you to buy their NEXT book. Maybe that is too harsh. It eliminates most of the books. I am standing by it and standing down now.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 7/26/2009 2:14 am by roc
Edited 7/26/2009 2:31 am by roc
Congrats, on both you do not neeed to spendthousands on new tools buy only the best you can afford and buy used or borrow and get to know other wood workers and share tools and ideas.
Thanks again everyone for your help and advice. To answer a couple of previous questions: My woodworking class was with hand tools, I really enjoyed this kind of work so I will probably try to stick to hand tools as much as I can. As for what kind of projects, I'd love to be able to do furniture at some point, but I realize it's going to take me quite a bit of practice to get there. Thanks again for all the help!Kyle
Failry new myself @ 10 or so years. Hand tools are my new love. When purchsing, make sure the tool fits your needs as well as your new wifes? Kids on the way? Noise/music/dust/space. TIME!
If I was starting again I would start with 3 tools ( all the best $ can buy ) # 1 Table saw # 2 Router # 3 flatworkbench w/ vise and clamps
Easiest avenue is to begin is with outdoor furniture. Learn your tools and begin to understand some of what you like as well as some dimensioning.
Patience & Passion!!!
"If I was starting again I would start with 3 tools ( all the best $ can buy ) # 1 Table saw # 2 Router # 3 flatworkbench w/ vise and clamps"
I have come to the conclusion that the American Brethren are obsessed with TABLE SAWS. Sorry about that, but there it is. (;)
Philip Marcou
Table Saw Obsession.... The new perfume by Laurial, sure to attract the rugged man that is missing in your life.... The alluring fragrence of packing grease, wood dust and the electron essence. Made to make all difference in obtaining that special guy. Yours today for 199.95 a half once, Send you mail orders today to Phillip, customs and packages will be billed additionally.
Sorry, could not help it.... but I am a victim of TS envey as well. Seems to be pretty essential machine for me as well.
Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
>American Brethren are obsessed with TABLE SAWS<I just gotta be cantankerous. Here is one not obsessed with TABLE SAWSThere's mine buried under all that crap. Well not crap but that is sort of my I don't use this much pile. The saw works great. All fettled to the max. I cut the dog holes in my bench ( 2° or 3° don't remember ) with it using a big wide dado stack. Noisy, dusty . . . yuck. Throws spears at your belly . . . True if I had a nice quiet one with dust collector I might use it more but you know my rant about wanting better micrometer style fence/stops and this one isn't that one.Not getting obsessed until I can get that built in stock from maker in an Inca size machine.rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 7/31/2009 2:07 am by roc
Well, if you got very little money to spend and want to learn woodworking, I'd suggest turning your computer off and work some wood! Reading computer forums and woodworking magazines will just confuse you into thinking you need every little doo-dad out there!
You ought to pick up one or two good books to study & practice from. I liked Tag Frid's, but there are many more out there, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of suggestions.
Pick up some basic tools: a couple of chisels, handsaw, some sharpening stones, etc. and spend your time using them. It will also help to search out someone nearby that you can visit from time to time with questions. I'd would also see if your local PBS station broadcasts "The Woodwright's Shop". If so, it's a great, live demonstration of traditional techniques.
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