Replies

1. 
   Elcoholic | Sep 18, 2003 06:20pm | #1

   Dovetails! :)

   I can't recall ever seeing a hand tool method for box joints.  I believe the box joint (tightly spaced square pins and slots 1/8", 1/4" ...) was a machine joint from inception as mass production alternative to dovetails.  This is sort of like doing hand cut biscuit joints.  The French Finger joint (say 1-2" wide pins) could be done with a back saw and a bow saw and cleaned up with a chisel.

   John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

2. 
   JohnWW | Sep 18, 2003 07:28pm | #2

   Brian,

   I'm inclined to back the opinion of the first respose, that box joints are always a machine made joint, but you could make them with hand tools if you wanted to.  To make them by hand, the tools and techniques would be pretty much the same as used for dovetailing.

   John W.

3. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Sep 19, 2003 03:25am | #3

   Brian,

   Box joints (comb joints) are a hand-cut joint.  Don't know whether they've ever been made by hand in 1/8" or 1/4" widths on a commercial basis, but (ie:  I'm agreeing with John on this point).

   Here's the procedure to make them by hand.

   • Get your stock flat and square, cut to final dimension
   • Nominate a face side and face edge.
   • Determine pin location and mark one complete row of pins out by pencil
   • Use a sharp marking gauge to scribe an exact (stress, exact) cheek line onto each piece, using the pin layout from the above step to set the marking gauge.  Go over the master row of pins as well with the marking gauge
   • Use a sharp cutting guage to establish the shoulder/bottom of pin of each joint
   • Mark the waste with a pencil
   • Cut out each cheek accurately with a tenon saw, leaving the saw kerf just 'kissing' the centre of the marking gauge scribe line.
   • Cut out bottom of pin/shoulder with a chisel, chopping out as you do a dovetail and chopping from both sides
   • Test fit when finished, pare to fit with sharp chisel.

   Have to run.  Hope this helps,

   eddie

   edit:  (forgot something inground from training, but not explicit here:  When using the marking gauge, always use the face edge as reference, never use both sides of the board)

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/19/2003 5:04:13 PM ET by eddie (aust)

1. 
   bwatkins | Sep 19, 2003 05:15pm | #4

   Thanks for the tips. 

   ...Brian

4. 
   CharlieD | Sep 19, 2003 07:05pm | #5

   I have seen yet another way explained, but never tried it.

   Layout a baseline on two adjacent workpieces, same as with hand-cut dovetails.

   Clamp the workpieces together vertically, and offset by exactly the same amount as the kerf of the saw you're using. (How you'll figure THAT out was not explained.)

   Lay out the fingers across the top of both workpieces with a marking knife and square, then down the sides with a square to the baseline.

   Mark alternating fingers, first one side then the other across the top as waste. Hard to desribe without a picture. The lower right corner of any given finger on the farthest workpiece touches the upper left corner of the finger to it's right on the closest workpiece (whew...)

   Leaving the workpieces as they are, cut to the baselines.

   Chisel the fingers marked as waste, same as with dovetails, pare to fit with a sharp chisel.

   No idea how well this works.

   Good luck,

   Charlie

5. 
   JeffSnell | Nov 08, 2003 03:43pm | #6

   Gidday Brian,

                      Try the AngleMag. http://www.anglemag.com

   from jeff

1. 
   forestgirl | Nov 08, 2003 07:47pm | #7

   Jeff, it's customary when making a recommendation of a product that you're commercially "attached" to, to make that known in the post.  Seems like a safe bet that your name is Jeff Snell of anglemag.com.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   JeffSnell | Nov 10, 2003 12:58am | #9

   Hello Forestgirl,

   I had no intention of hiding the fact that I was the Jeff Snell of the AngleMag website. However, if I have stepped on sense & sensivity, I offer my apologies.

   Yes, I did want it generally known about the the AngleMag. So, how do I get the word out quite apart from advertising. Could you tell me if I could link my website to a useful American woodworking website, please.

   Thanks again from Jeff Snell 

1. 
   forestgirl | Nov 10, 2003 08:00pm | #10

   You could contact that following organization:

   http://www.woodworking.org/

   which is the only forum I participate in that's not associated with a specific magazine.  There are also sites for Woodsmith, ShopNotes and Workbench (woodnet.net), Wood Magazine and Just Woodworking (a new magazine), and probably most others also.

   BTW, I don't know if it was just a temporary glitch, but when I tried to get to the Purchase or Order link to see the price on the unit, the page did not come up.

   If you want to post the AngleMag link in the various forums, you'll be walking a tight-rope.  IMO, you don't want to give the appearance of just lurking for the purposes of free advertising.  The forums are community organizations that serve as a place for WWers to help other WWers in a variety of ways, from learning to do dovetail joints to keeping out of trouble with our spouses!  My humble suggestion would be to save your recommendation for the most needed and most appropriate instances, and make it clear that you are the inventor or president or whatever.  Also, that you participate in many other ways on the forum so that you are contributing in the ways others do, not just being there for the advertising.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   alanplanesaw | Nov 11, 2003 02:19am | #11

   Joseph/Jeff,

   I agree with forestgirl's followup post.   First, if you are going to in anyway refer to your product, be up front and inform the reader as to who you are and your relationship to the product.

   Second.  A forum like Knots Forum, is generally not the place to even do that.  If readers begin to recognize that you are there to sell, they will begin to avoid you. 

   People go to forums like these to share advice and techniques and even recommend or critique tools that they have used -- but have no relationship to the manufacturer or seller.

   Someone with the probability of your knowledge and experience is welcome.  Just avoid coming across as the only reason you are in the forum is to sell.  That is not its purpose.

   Alan - planesaw

6. 
   SgianDubh | Nov 08, 2003 10:39pm | #8

   Brian, box lock joints, corner lock joints, or finger joints have been around for several centuries as a hand cut joint, but they are most commonly known as hinge knuckle joints or hinge joints. The modern machine made version is just an adaptation of an old technique. Typical use of the old hand cut version are seen in gate-leg tables.

   There are two ways to cut it by hand. The first is to treat it as a dovetail (missing a rake) where you cut the first set of fingers, transfer the marks to the mating piece and cut the other set of fingers to match.

   The second method is to cut the two parts with joining ends clamped together in two set-ups. You line the parts up and offset all the back set of fingers from the front set by the thickness of the saw kerf, and make all the cuts to the right hand side of each finger. Then you realign the front and back piece and offset the cut  lines by the thickness of the saw kerf again to the left side of each cut line, and cut away.

   In theory, and in practice, if your skills are well developed, both methods work well. I'm feeling a wee bit lazy and haven't included full instructions for cutting the joint, but an excellently clear and detailed description of the methodology can be found in Ernest Joyce's definitive tome, The Technique of Furniture Making. Slainte.

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