hi all;
I am having a problem turning bowls less than 5 inches in diameter.
To turn the bowls I have an Elsworth bowl gouge with a fingernail grind that I am doing myself on a One Way grinding set up for bowl gouges.
My problem is the gouge catches and drives the gouge to the the outside of the bowl causing damage. The gouge measures 5/8 outside diameter and 7/16 inside diameter. I am guessing I need either a different tool or a thinner gouge. Since I have only turned four bowls I figure there is a learning curve on perfecting the grind as the tool tends to either not cut or dig in……I am working on that!
I also found that a V shaped tool tends to do a better job of cutting the inside of a small bowl than the bowl gouge.
Please give me suggestions, I know my technique or tool choice is at fault, what you would recommend!!!
Best,
Jim
Replies
The size of the gouge is not of that much significance on the outside.Digs there point to technique.You are most likely presenting at the wrong angle ..Try raising the toolrest a touch so the cuttiing edge is slightly above centre and try gettig the bevel to rub.Start with the bevel rubbing then slowly raise the handle till it starts to cut.I would suggest that you try to contact wood turners near by and get a demo.Failing that read Richard Raffan etc .However, I have found that the easyest way to learn to turn is with someone guiding your cuts.I have taught several people, kids, even a woman who totally doubted her motor skills to turn bowls by demonstration very sucessfully.Turning is all about lightness of touch.With practise you can hold the gouge at the tip of the handle with a finger and thumband turn with the other hand behind your back not on the toolrest.The equivalent in spindle turning is to use a sharp axe as a skew. Have fun turning is addictive Jako
Jako;
Sorry I was talking about trying to clear out the inside of the 5" bowl, not the outside.I think I have to big a gouge as the turning space is less than 2.5
( half or 5")inches and the gouge, when rolled over is about that size. Either nothing cuts or everything cuts or catches! So I think I need advice on a smaller tool.Jim
It is still possible but a bit tight .I tend to use a 3/8 gouge and I put on a steep grind to give as much bevel contact as possible then finish the bottom with a scraper.I find that 1/4 gouges chatter with small diameter work as I often have a big overhang on the rest.
Jacko:
Tell me about your grind.I follow the One Way Wolverine grind , which is 60 degrees on the tip and I don't remember the side grind , but it is steeper.My tool, with this grind lays flat on the4 inside of a small bowl. When I try to widen the bowl, the gouge grabs , digs and screws up my party! How do you get away with opening up the inside with a half inch bowl gouge with out screwing the pig? I screw it every time!!Jim
You may be trying to use the wings. Try right close to the tip
Jacko,
maby a tighter curve on the tip with a 65% angle ---I 'll try it!
Jim
JACKO;3/8" is that the diameter of the bar or the inside of the blade.....English and American measures different things!
Jim
my gouges are henry taylor and crown 3/8"but I am travelling at present so cannot measure them for you
JAKO;You are right - after spending hours with good equipment I don't know how to use a bowl gouge with out it grabbing violently ( by violently I mean that I lose control to the degree that I damage the turning)I am surprised that after all the wood working that I have done I can't figure this damn thing out!
Best,
Jim
I am a new turner as well and I also have that gouge. One thing that I have found a lot of success with is using a round scraper. It is easier to shape the inside as you are hollowing as well. I recently bought the Sorby Bowl Scaper as well, although I have not put it to wood yet. Though I still use the gouge quite a bit the scraper allowed me to get productive (rather than destructive) a lot quicker. I think you would find a great deal of success with a scraper, especially with smaller work. If you don't already own a scraper you are going to want to pick one up soon. BTW, the surface that a scraper leaves requires a TON less sanding than a gouge...especially for us beginners. Did I mention that you should try a scraper?
Three:
Thanks for your comment. One of the guys told I should buy a 3/8" bowl gouge and a heavy duty scraper (like yours). I bought them both this weekend. By far the scraper was EXCELLENT, the smaller bowl gouge still digs like the larger bowl gouge.Thanks 3,
Jim
Jim,
I have two bowl gouges - a 3/8" and a 1/2". If I owned a big lathe and turned big bowls, I'd own a 5/8" bowl gouge too. I use the 1/2" gouge for most of the bowl gouges, but the 3/8" size really helps on bowls under 4" diameter. Make sure that the cutting edge of the tool is directly above where the tool contacts the tool rest. Otherwise, the tool will have a tendency to rotate. Hope that makes sense.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Advise much appreciated....I saw a demonstration by a pro who did great work with e 5/8th - did the whole dama thing with this gouge.. I figure he could have turned the inside of pencils with at at dam thing. So I got a too big bowl gouge, happay, happh , happy!Hay but I am learning from advise from folks like you ---- thanks,Best, Jim
Flair,
Ya, I am like you.
I saw a demonstration by a pro that turned a green bowl with the bowl gouge that I bought. It unfortunately is like the old demonstration of a HOVER vacuum cleaner salesman where the guy demoing it could pick up bowling balls, but after I bought it I cant pick up lint!
Best,
Jim
Jim,
How have you ground your bowl gouge? Try sharpening it to a "fingernail grind". When I started, I used the tool ground the the shape supplied (square to the shank) and it worked fine, no grabs either. But upon recommendations to grind the wings back, I've come to like that shape better.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris - you said: Make sure that the cutting edge of the tool is directly above where the tool contacts the tool rest. Otherwise, the tool will have a tendency to rotate. Hope that makes sense. Chris,
I have a 10 inch tool rest - what do you suggest in trying to cut a five inch hole six inches deep?
Jim
Jim,
When hollowing out a bowl, especially the deeper ones, I like to angle my tool rest into the bowl for support closer to the wood. Your 10" tool rest is probably fairly beefy, making it harder to get into a small bowl. You might look at a smaller tool rest. You can also get special curved tool rests that mimic the shape of the bowl.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris;
Your right - the tool rest is to large to enter the cavity I am cutting.
Jim
Get Raffan's DVD on wood turning and watch the bowl section several times. I found that incredibly helpful. I turned my first small bowl the other day and was able to achieve a very thin rim. The up close shots are excellent and well worth the DVD's price. I will watch again from time to time until his techniques become my own.
All,
If you really want to learn the precise mechanism for how to blow up a bowl on a lathe, I will make a video the next time I turn something.You can study it extensively to learn how to wreck a really expensive blank. So far I have blown up 4/5 bowls on the lathe. I am really getting the hang of it. The last one was really impressive- pieces flying everywhere. I have named the lathe "Clusterbomb". My son cowers in a far corner of the shop when I turn.
I am temporarily going back to spindles for a while to make a 4 poster.
Frank
Rule number one is rubbing the bevel all the time, (unless you are using the wings of a side ground gouge as a shear scraper but that is another story for the outside of the bowl). I prefer an “Irish” or long fingernail grind with the tip at a fairly blunt angle. I would also recommend that you learn to freehand grind your tools for a couple reasons. Your turning style may not match the set profile of the jig, and freehand is far faster. Turning requires very frequent grinding and the jig just breaks the rhythm. Also the motor skills required to turn (we do that freehand, right?) are the same as grinding the tool. And you can experiment with different grind profiles. If you do a lot of turning you must be ready to use up a gouge per year.
As to tool size the 3/8 gouge is the most useful generally although a 1/2 and a 5/8 are very nice to have if your lathe has the power.
The other thing is to turn A LOT! I have, at last count, 540 roughed out bowls in the loft of my shop drying away (there is a new box elder log to cut up out in the yard too…). Making shavings is the best way to get good at it. Dig through the firewood pile and chuck some on the lathe and cut. I taught myself along with Richard Raffen’s videos which are very good so just keep at it. Once you find that sweet spot where the tool cuts like butter and the shavings peel off in ribbons you’ll be hooked, but it take practice.
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