I just built a set of maple kitchen cabinets with raised panel doors. The raised panel doors were built w/hard maple and had a bit of figure. I have stained the carcass and face frames with Olympic oil based stain (the product my wife wanted to use) with no problems. The stain worked fine on the hard maple face frames but it’s not working well on the drawer faces or doors. I wood conditioner prior to staining the doors and drawers but it’s looking pretty blotchy.
Does anyone have any advice, I’ve spent many hours on the doors and can’t figure out what to do to get the wood to accept the stain evenly?
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Do you know about Zinnser Seal Coat -- a dewaxed shellac?
I have used it to hide stains prior to painting, does it work well prior to staining too? Does it need to be thinned or can you use it straight out of the can?
Finishers have been using Shellac (that they dewaxed themselves) for this purpose for years. But now Zinsser has done it for you.Seal Coat has already been thinned down (compared to regular canned shellac), but prior to staining, I thin it down even more -- about 1/3 alcohol to 2/3 Seal Coat, but you don't have to be too fastidious about the mix. Brush it on, then sand lightly after it has dried (usually 20-30 minutes). I generally use 220 grit.If you have some around, try it on a scrap. To avoid blotchiness, I like this technique way better than wood conditioners. If you mix your own shellac, the Super Blond flakes are also dewaxed. BTW, Seal Coat is also terrific as a sealer whenever you are using water based finishes -- since it doesn't raise the grain (as WB polys will do).
Thanks for taking the time to help me out, I really appreciate it! I've tried your solution and it's working great.
There's a number of ways to get even coloring on maple (and other woods), and different finishers have a variety of favorite techniques. For me, applying the color in layers has produced the best results and makes it possible to get any color, no matter how dark. For lighter colors, there are three ways that I often use to get the color; spraying dye, a dilute wiping stain, or toner. For medium colors I'll usually use two steps; either spraying dye followed by toner or wiping stain followed by toner. For darker colors, it usually takes three or more coloring steps. In some cases, I will use other approaches, like spray only pigmented stains or glazing; it just depends on the easiest way to get the finish that's required. Usually, the only time I use a washcoat is before a wiping glaze.
To get the most even color from dye, spraying a light, even wet coat without any wiping works best for me. The brand of dye isn't that important as long as it's fade resistant. One of my suppliers has their own label and can mix any color I need or I may use a pre-mixed color from companies like ILVA, Behlen, Mohawk Ultra Penetrating, ML Campbell microton, Sherwin Williams Dye Concentrates, Homestead Finishing (.com) Transtints, or Wood Finishing Supplies (.com) Color FX . To make life easier, I use whichever brand has the closest color pre-mixed to the color I want most of the time. By intermixing and adjusting how much you thin dye concentrates you can get an infinite range of colors.
Some problems that come with spraying dye are oversaturation, flooding, bleeding, striping, and poor coloring in corners. Unlike wiping a dye, where the color reaches a limit, with spraying you can oversaturate the wood with color and it gets darker and darker. I usually like to spray the dye in one even wet coat though some finishers prefer to mist on multiple coats to build the color. The problem I have with multiple coats is maintaining the same color intensity and consistency over numerous surfaces. Applying the dye too heavy, flooding the surface, causes blotching, bleeding, and/or color pooling. A light coat that wets the wood and flashes off quickly keeps the color even. I have to pay close attention when spraying dye to make sure it's heavy enough to wet the wood and overlap the passes enough to avoid spraying stripes. If it's not wet enough, it produces a "hungry" look where the grain and figure are muted. When you spray into corners and recesses, the turbulence from the air the spray gun uses keeps the dye from wetting the wood evenly. Keeping the air as low as possible and good spray technique will minimize the effect.
Some wiping stains work a lot better than others. Several good brands of stain include Chemcraft, Valspar, Triclad, ICA, ML Campbell, Behlen, etc. The various brands have different versions of the same color as well. Like dyes, by intermixing colors (stick with the same brand for compatibility) and varying the thinning ratios you can get a huge range of colors. When you thin these stains, use the stain base instead of the solvent. The stain base has the right blend of solvent, binder, and additives to maintain the stain's working properties. Before you use a wiping stain, make sure to do a large sample to see how that color works. While one color will work well, another color from the same brand can look horrible. If the stain is made with both pigment and dye, it'll usually cause blotching on maple.
In this picture, the cabinet on the left was stained and the cabinet on the right was stained and toned. They were part of a large maple kitchen job. Starting with a wiping stain that colors the wood evenly, I thinned it down with the stain base until I got the shade I needed. Then I mixed up a toner to go over the stain. The toner added more color, made the overall color more even, and added a look of depth to the finish.
The doors for the kitchen had an added glazing step to highlight the profiles and contours in the design. The door on the left is stain only with a coat of finish to seal it and the door on the right is stained, toned, and glazed. To do the glazing on this job I used a spray only glaze instead of a slow drying wiping glaze since it dries so fast and does a good job of accentuating shapes. I have a description of the way I use the spray glaze at this link - Fast Dry Glaze.
The first thing I always do when before I start a new finish is to work out the steps on scrap or cut-offs (the larger the better!). I also experiment with different colors at times to work out new finish samples for customers to choose from as well as just to see how they look. I keep all the good samples and use them over and over. The sample below is not one that I would ever show a customer... I made it just as an experiment to show the effect of a colored finish (toner).
I wouldn't ever put this much toner on a real job. I made the toner with dye, so it is transparent and the wood grain is clearly visible but its too much color IN the finish and it looks weird. Besides, if the finish is ever damaged it'll be a pain to repair and it's a pain to spray that much color and keep it the same on multiple pieces.
To get a lot of color on maple, I build it up in steps. In this sample, the bottom section ("A") just has a clear finish on it, section "B" shows the dye (first color step), section "C" has a wiping stain over the dye, section "D" has a toner over the dye and stain, and section "E" has an extra coat of toner (stick with a single coat of toner whenever possible).
The dye starts the coloring process and establishes a base color for the rest of the finish. It does a nice job of popping any figure in the wood and develops highlights that are visible even after the rest of the coloring steps. Sometimes I'll use a pretty brightly colored dye that compliments the stain color to take advantage of the highlights it produces. Once the dye dries, I apply a wiping stain over it to add more color and accentuate the grain in the wood. Usually I spray a light wet coat of the stain, let it flash off, and wipe away the excess. After the stain dries, seal it with a coat of sealer or finish, let it dry, sand it smooth, and remove the sanding dust. Next comes a coat of toner. To make a toner, I'll usually mix up 4 ounces finish to 28 ounces of thinner and add 1 1/2 ounces of dye concentrate. Sometimes I'll use the stain instead of dye (as long as it's compatible with the finish) or for some finishes I'll use 1/4 ounce or less of pigment. Sometimes I'll use two coats of toner, but it's rare. Follow the toner coat(s) with a coat or two of clear.
Note - I deleted the previous post because I couldn't edit it.
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Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my question. I learned a lot from your posting.
Paul,
I just had to take a moment to tell you, your answer was awesome. I feel as if I just got a lesson on how to be a finishing professional and it didn't cost me a thing but a few moments of my time to read your post and print it for future reference.
I never cease to be amazed at how much people are willing to share on this site! Arno would be proud.
Many Thanks!
Kell
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