Replies

1. 
   roc | Jun 16, 2009 08:12am | #1

   Regular block plane has better balance; less fatiguing to your pinch fingers. A low angle used a whole lot would make my fingers lock after a while. Veritas has better blade advance mechanism than others of similar price range.

   http://www.veritastools.com/Products/Page.aspx?p=109

   I like and recommend the axillary handles and other blades ( toothed ) also.

   http://www.veritastools.com/Products/Page.aspx?p=392

   for the low angle.

   roc

   Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

2. 
   hammer1 | Jun 16, 2009 01:57pm | #2

   A low angle block plane works much better than a standard angle one on end grain, miter cuts, chamfering and general fitting. Many finish carpenters carry one. I own quite a few. My favorite is a new Stanley. It's the only one I have with a lateral adjustment. With others, you have to pry the blade left or right. I like the size, weight, rounded front, adjustable throat, depth mechanism and the price.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

3. 
   derekcohen | Jun 16, 2009 03:13pm | #3

   The usual recommendation for a block plane is to get a low angle type (12 degree bed) over a standard angle type (20 degree bed). The argument for this is that a low cutting angle, typically 37 degrees, is the better choice for planing end grain.

   I have block planes with both bed angles. A favourite is the bronze LN #103, a standard angle. With a 25 degree bevel one creates a common cutting angle of 45 degrees, which is the same as the average bench plane. Another is the vintage Stanley #18 Knucklejoint, which is used with a replacement Japanese laminated blade.

   These standard angle blockplanes have no difficulty cutting end grain and, although not quite as good in this regard as a good LA block plane.

   Standard angle block planes have other advantages that may make them the better choice in the end.

   A standard angle block plane is a more appropriate choice if much of the time the block plane is used for trimming edge and face grain, and not end grain. Think about this - planing a chamfer, cleaning up a little saw mark, etc., - just how often do you use it to plane end grain? While I do use it in this way, I am more likely to turn to a shooting board to trim and square end grain. Further, the disadvantage of a low cutting angle is that it is more at risk to cause tear out in face grain than a common cutting angle.

   Some woodworkers argue that they do not even own a block plane and instead simply use a bench plane.

   Since most block planes have the blade bevel up, the cutting angle is easily altered with a higher secondary bevel. Noting this point, it is not the bed angle of the plane that is all-important, but rather the cutting angle that is used.

   But wait .. the higher bedding of a Standard Angle block plane creates a higher handhold and this is not as comfortable in the hand as that of a Low Angle block plane. With the LA you get closer to the work, and this also translates into better "feel".

   Answer: get a LA block plane (for comfort) and hone a higher bevel angle (say 30-35 degrees) for improved performance.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/16/2009 8:16 am ET by derekcohen

4. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jun 17, 2009 06:23pm | #4

   You said for general purpose.. I would say the standard. Low-angle gets the call for end grain trimming. I used a standard twice yesterday and a low-angle once. So.. I simply want both.

   You didn't mention what kind of budget you are on. The LV and LN are great tools but.. with that said I have a standard and low-angle Stanley I've used for 38 years I in-herited from my father who passed in 1959 when I was 12.

   I have found no task I couldn't perform with either that could be performed any better IMO with a higher grade plane. So.. if on a budget the new Stanley's (they supposely have been upgraded but I cannot attest to that personally) are at Woodcraft for $44 each.

   Good luck with your decision...

   Sarge..

1. 
   DonC | Jun 17, 2009 11:30pm | #5

   Hey Sarge,

   I hear alot of flowers for the replacement /aftermarket Hock blade at $44.00.

   You have "been there and done that"....is it a good idea to buy one of these expensive replacement irons????

    

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jun 18, 2009 12:34am | #6

   I think it might come down to how often you use the plane. If you are not using it everyday.. I would not buy a replacement blade in advance. How do you (not what others say is their experience) what the blade will do until you try it? You don't really.

   If you go with the new Stanley.. I am not sure how thick or what grade the blade is on them. I'm still using both stock blades on both my Stanleys and don't have one problem. I use at least one daily for small task. And that may be a key.. small task. Most things you do with a block or LA block are small task compared to a bench plane. With that said.. I have changed blades on an Anant #4 and an Anant #5 with a Hock and do see a difference but the planes take on larger task.

   But.. if you have a $45 plane with a blade and then you purchase a Hock.. you now have a $89 block plane. The Wood River cost $69 and again.. I cannot say how the blade is on the WR. But... both Stanley's with Hocks if you really need them are $178. Compare both LN's or LV's price and how much you will use them.

   That should give you an idea of where to hang your hat...

   Regards...

   Sarge..

   who has to get back down to the shop to trim some frame panels with a well... block plane. And BTW.. if you get a medium shoulder plane eventually.. I personally wouldn't consider anything but the LV. I won't compromise on that one. 

1. 
   Jer | Jun 19, 2009 04:36am | #13

   You make a good point.
   I love my old Stanley low angle and it has served me well for about 3 decades. But I also have the low angle Veritas and LN apron block plane and have to say that if you're getting near their price range with buying replacement blades etc, then it's worth every cent to make the jump to buy them. LN still takes the cake for me when it comes to planes that I use.

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jun 19, 2009 05:59am | #15

   The trick is.. I didn't replace the blade on either of the blocks. I have a LV LA smoother and love the way LV designs.. especially the two side in-set screws that act as blade stops to keep it from shifting. I had a LV 4 1/2 and #6 but... sold them and replaced with cheaper planes. If I did all hand planing frankly.. I would have kept them as they are most definitely nice. But.. I used the money to get well.. more tools I really came up short on and the cheapies work fine actually after replacing the blade on them which was more cost effective to do with the larger price difference.

   So... I love the LV' Veritas's period. I have not used the LN except on test runs at Highland Hardware (WW now) and they were great also but I prefer the LV design over the the old Bedrock design. Both shave beautifully but I just like the way LV handled the design.

   Regards...

   Sarge..

2. 
   Jer | Jun 19, 2009 01:19pm | #17

   Well that's a plus for the LV. Truthfully the only LV plane I have tried is the one I own, the block plane. It cuts beautifully and yes, I love the adjustments on the sides. The only thing is ergonomically it's a little boxy & big.
   I really don't need any more planes (he said foolishly), but I am tempted to try the LV smoother and now the new kid on the block (to make a pun), WoodRiver.

3. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jun 19, 2009 06:46pm | #20

   I didn't mention I have a LV medium shoulder also. That's another one I wouldn't consider getting rid of and it gets used often. Not as oftne as the block planes but.. every project (average every two months) sees a few task performed with it. Excellent attack weapon. ha.. ha...

   Sarge..

5. 
   woodchez | Jun 18, 2009 10:41am | #7

   Thanks everyone for all the great input! It's a lot to consider and I appreciate all of it.

   I'm weighing my options, needs, budget, and thoughts, but I know I'll definitely eventually want one of each. I'm definitely thinking about end grain use with shooting boards for straight and mitered cuts. I also see myself wanting to use it for chamfering, general fitting (like fine-tuning widths of smallish sized boards) (edge grain). I think I'm leaning towards a LA first, quickly (hopefully) followed by a standard.

   Now, the question is all about budget. I've had past opportunities to work with a few LN planes, including block (tho forget whether standard or LA), and I loved those tools. Being on a budget tho, I think I need to consider something lower on the $ scale, especially if I go for both standard and LA purchased close together. I'm considering Stanley (old or new?), and trying to see if I like it right off the bat (w/o replacement blades), but if I then think I want to get Hock blades, I'll start to think I should've gone with LN or LV.... I've heard the Footprint brand mentioned before, but know nothing about it... is it worth any consideration...?

   Thanks again everyone,
   woodcheese

   So many tools and not enough money...!

1. 
   BG | Jun 18, 2009 11:27am | #8

   woodcheese,You don't want to hear this, but you need to be at least aware of another alternative..an expensive alternative, but cheaper in the long run. The Rabbit Block plane. Because the blade is flush to the outside wall of the plane, it allows you to get into the nooks on tenons and such, thereby eliminating the need for a shoulder plane. As importantly, it is a fabulous LA black plane too.

2. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jun 18, 2009 03:13pm | #9

   This conundrum seems to be on everyones mind contemplating the purchase of a plane, or any tool for that matter - money.   Whether you choose to fettle an old plane or purchase a new one, that essentially performs out of the box so to speak, it basically works out about the same. 

   Do ye spend the time (=money) to make an old tool work or do you pay someone else to do the fettling for ye (=higher initial price).  In most cases it seems to all work out to be about the same money.

   I think the real question is what do you want the tool to do or how do you envision using it to your best advantage?  In that regard it would seem the low angle plane is the best alternative.  You have the best of both worlds in that you can put a high angle on a blade for those times when you're not dealing with end grain.

   If ye don't want to have to swap blades then git two planes.  Uh oh, here comes that money thang agin. 

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

3. 
   furndr | Jun 18, 2009 03:29pm | #10

   One of my favorite planes that stays on my bench  constantly is an old Stanley 9 1/2 that I picked up at an estate sale for $8. After spending a couple of hours flattening the sole and sharpening the blade it cuts every bit as well as my L/N which cost $75 quite a few years ago.

   Although I like the look and feel of the high end planes (I have several LNs that I have accumulated over the years) I'm beginning to really question whether they are worth the extra cost for the average guy on a budget. One of my all-time favorite utility planes is a Stanley Bailey #5 that I also picked up for under $20. It will often do a better job  on difficult wood than my LN #4.  (The Stanley still has the original iron also, not a Hock or LN replacement.)   

   You really don't have to spend a lot of money to get the job done!

   furndr  

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jun 18, 2009 04:42pm | #11

   "You really don't have to spend a lot of money to get the job done"!

   furndr 

   Now that sounds like something someone from Ringgold would say but come to think of it... I've been saying the same thing for years down in Lawrenceville. :>)

   Regards from down the road a piece...

   Sarge. 

   Edited 6/18/2009 9:43 am ET by SARGEgrinder47

1. 
   furndr | Jun 19, 2009 02:43am | #12

   Sarge,

   Good to hear from you! I always enjoy and appreciate your very practical observations and comments.

   I have a daughter and son-in-law who live down your way in Suwanee.   If you're interested, relay your address and I'll drop by sometime when I visiting the grandchildren. 

   furndr

1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Jun 19, 2009 05:51am | #14

   I'll send you a PM with the telephone number but.. better yet... I'll meet you at my hardwood supplier of 30+ years... Suwanee Lumber. :>)

   It's about two blocks from the City Hall and Police station. And that new open area shopping center around City Hall is nice. When I was growing up Suwanee was considered the intersection of Lawrenceville-Suwanee Rd. and Hwy 23. Nothing... I mean basically nothing but one little filling station and store. Things have changed.

   BTW.. I grew up in Lawrenceville about 13 miles down L'ville-Suwanee Rd. That is where I hang my hat also.

   Regards...

   Sarge..

   Edited 6/18/2009 11:00 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47

4. 
   davcefai | Jun 19, 2009 07:09pm | #21

   I suspect that a block plane would not be very satisfactory on a shooting board. You may find it to be too light and you need some momentum in this situation.Also check that the sides are perpendicular to the sole. On my Groz they are not. However I have tuned an old Clifton #4 for sole use on the shooting board and it works a treat.

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Jun 20, 2009 05:31pm | #22

   I have lots of planes around . garage sales. Never paid more that ten bucks. Stanley 110 is the go to. I got a stanley 180 shoulder plane in really good shape. It is now getting used more often.
   in a pinch a few years ago I made a shoulder plane from wood and snapped an old blade in half. Crude but effective. I have a Veritis block plane from a nieghbours widow and haven't even tried it

6. 
   philip | Jun 19, 2009 12:22pm | #16

   Woody,
   Serious question here: assuming you do cabinet making, why do you want to get a block plane?

   Philip Marcou
1. 
   9619 | Jun 19, 2009 02:27pm | #18

   Mook,
   You asked "Serious question here: assuming you do cabinet making, why do you want to get a block plane?"I seriously suggest you read a FWW article by Chris Gochnour. He is a pretty good woodworker, and worth paying attention to. The article is called:
   Users Guide to Block Planes: Five common tasks for the handiest plane in the shop."It is in the July/Aug. 2003 issue of FWW. EXCELLENT ARTICLE. GREAT AUTHOR. The five tasks he lists are:
   1) removing mill marks.
   2) chamfering and rounding edges
   3)cleaning up joinery
   4)fine tuning miter joints
   5)fitting a doorThere are very few incontrovertable facts in woodworking, but one of them is "A block plane is a good thing to have."Have fun. Glad to help.
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   EdHarrison | Jun 20, 2009 08:06pm | #23

   >There are very few incontrovertable facts in woodworking, but one of them is "A block plane is a good thing to have."<Mel, If you subscribe to the theory that "Using a Smooth Plane is a Religious Experience" and thus I need to spend thousands of $ on mine, then block planes aren't as important. Personally I can't imagine woodworking life without my Stanley knuckle joint block plane and an oilstone, but that's just me, known to be wrong and known not to really care, other than a passing curiosity while my breakfast digests.

1. 
   9619 | Jun 20, 2009 08:22pm | #24

   Ed,

   I don't get a religious experience from using a smoothing plane, or anything else in woodworking.  Of course, being on Knots is very close to a religious experience.  :-)

   Have fun.

   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

2. 
   lwj2 | Jun 21, 2009 01:28am | #25

   "There are very few incontrovertable facts in woodworking, but one of them is "A block plane is a good thing to have."Mel, If you subscribe to the theory that "Using a Smooth Plane is a Religious Experience" and thus I need to spend thousands of $ on mine, then block planes aren't as important.Personally I can't imagine woodworking life without my Stanley knuckle joint block plane and an oilstone, but that's just me, known to be wrong and known not to really care, other than a passing curiosity while my breakfast digests.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++I dunno, Ed. Chamfering with a #3 can be a religious experience.I tried it once, lost most of my religion for a bit. Kids learned some new words, too.I've used my Stanley 9-1/2 for over 20 years and I wouldn't trade it for anything.Leon

7. 
   Bill_Anderson | Jun 19, 2009 05:39pm | #19

   I would suggest a low angle rabbet block plane.  This has all of the advantages of the block plane, the low angle, and in addition, if you ever need to clean up a tenon, etc, you can plane right into the corner.  Lie Nielsen has a square (sort of standard) version, plus they have a pair of skewed right and left rabbet block planes.  However, I am referring to the square version.  I personlly have a wide variety of block planes, but if you are looking to do as much as you can with only one, then this is a good bet.