I ran into a tree feller I know at a local bar on my friday motorcycle ride, asked him what hardwoods he has been getting (he also has a portable mill). He said he just put in bids to take down a large black walnut (which I’ll definitely take) and a black locust.
Never having worked with black locust before, I wanted to do a little research before committing to taking any boards. From what I gather it appears that the primary uses for black locust are boat building and firewood, can someone who has worked with it before give me some pointers that would be helpful in my decision making (it is a 24″ tree so if I take it I’ll have a lot of stock to work through).
Replies
I ran into a tree feller I know at a local bar ..
I hope one of you had a designated driver. Never used it..
See this, for one..
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Black_locust_uses.html
And another
http://www.woodmagazine.com/materials-guide/lumber/wood-species-1/black-locust/
Edited 2/22/2009 11:47 am by WillGeorge
yeah thanks, I know how to use google as well :)I was hoping someone with firsthand experience could chime in. The Woodweb comment thread actually has a lot of good feedback and I have found some images of finished pieces but I still don't know why I would want this wood if I were not building a boat... actually I think I just talked myself out of this tree, am going to buy just the walnut.
The wood (as you probably know) is extremely rot resistant and only has a couple of growth rings of sapwood. Makes great fence posts and is good for outdoor use. Large trees tend to get heart rot and become hollow. I know the tree as a forester, not as a wood worker as I have never used any, so I am interested in the comments that others might have.
Many, many years ago I helped my uncle build a table saw cabinet out of black locust and it was very difficult to cut with an old fashion 8" steel circular saw and to our surprise we had to drill holes for nails as they would bend rather than penetrate the wood. A couple of years ago I inherited the saw and table and reworked the table for a disc sander, I had no trouble cutting the wood with a carbide blade and no problems drilling holes for screws. The wood looks nice, but I have never seen it in a large piece of furniture. It machined well with carbide bits and sanded well, very heavy compared to oak or cherry
I live in IL and have been working with Black and Honey Locust for the last three summers, it is tough stuff, hard on saw and planer blades. We have made 11 decks in that time frame and they have turned out beautiful. Locust is very dense and heavy, one guy tried to use his air gun to shoot some nails in a board and the gun shoot right back at him. If you have the money get some and see what you think, it would be ashame to see it go to waste. Buy the way, I pay $1.00 a board foot straight from the mill, just to give you a idea.
Black locust is a very, very, very hard and dense hardwood. It's much harder than oak. It will dull your tools quickly, and you will need sharp, sharp planer and jointer knives. It can handplane difficultly, but with very beautiful results.
I built a table with the stuff a few years ago. It is extremely heavy, and can be difficult to dry with good results. (I airdry). Once dry, though, it can be used to make some very beautiful furniture.
I would not want to have to make a living working with this wood all the time, but you can have a very good learning experience by working with it, and also make some beautiful stuff.
Incidentally, I have a 12' log of honey locust, which is a bit softer, waiting for me to mill up. Gorgeous wood.
Go for it, but make sure you are prepared for the extra work.
Jeff
I have and do use it as firewood, burning some right now. What I have made is small jewelry boxes from it. It was air dried and sat in a barn for 5 years before I got it, some knarly crotch wood with great grain. It was extremely hard, and harder to cut without burning, and equally hard on the sanding and planing. It will splinter easily so you have to watch the direction of grain when working it.
Even though it is so dense, when it is dried properly, it hand splits very easily. Here is a box I made for my daughter. It was made three years ago and is pretty stable. I say buy some and see try it out.
Steve
I used on piece years ago to rebuild an old wooden boat. Tough as heck
Do any of you know of a Canadian supplier? the fellow I got mine from closed a few years back.
I built a covered portch out of black locust. The guys who machined the wood for me weren't too happy. It is very hard and contains minerals that dull blades. It tends to be a bit stringy. The trees have dead spots and shakes in them and getting nice wide boards is unusual. It does not move much. The farmers joke that you should put a fist sizedrock on the ground next to a new locust fencepost. When the rock falls apart it is time to replace the post. It is great firewood. I have heard it called "Appalacian Antracite".
I used some to make a painting box for my mother. It polishes beautifully. The wood glows under an oil finish. The grain pattern is lovely.
I think it would definitely be worth buying.
Frank
Thanks for all the feedback, exactly what I was looking for. Steve, that's a really nice jewelry box, great proportions and beautiful details.
Woodman, You don't have any information in your profile giving any idea where you are located, which might make a difference. I grew up with lots of them in my yard, which I harvested a few of back in the early seventies. Those were more dense than one which I got after the tornado of 99 in the next block over. This one was really large for around here, and very nice to work. When I drive across the state of TN, I see lots of them that get a lot larger than what is normal around here in AR. I have my own mill, and I would not hesitate jumping on a BL, as quickly as I would the walnut. Dang my luck. I had the trailer hitched up to the truck today to go get a nice but free walnut log. However, the transmission wouldn't shift out of 2nd. I pulled into a parts store, and opened the hood. When I pulled the transmission dip-stick, half of the tube going down to the transmission came away with the dip-stick. ARRRRRGh. I know that is going to cost some money. I would not pass up the locust. It is really nice wood. It has a nice medullary ray fleck that really shines if it is QS. I wish it would retain the yellow color that it has when freshly cut, but it still turns a nice medium brown a bit lighter than walnut over time. Nothing wrong with using a wood that will last fifty years sticking out of the ground as a fence post when you want to build things to last. Of course if you subscribe to the notion of the throw away society, you can save a lot of money just using mdf. ha
I'm in Northern California. These logs aren't free to me, I have to pay for the bd ft they yield but I like buying the whole log because it ensure consistency. The walnut is a given, I will definitely use that but the BL is a question mark because I haven't used it before. Based on the feedback I will pick up a few boards and see how I like it, which if I do I can quickly turn around and buy the tree in question.
I am not sure, but I think your location is out of the native range for black locust. This may be a good thing, when you consider something that an earlier poster mentioned about the heart rot. It always seemed odd to me that a wood which would last so long after cut here in the mid-south, where rot conditions are much worse than most places across the country, the same wood would get heart decay while it was alive. I think what is happening, is that there is a relationship with ants, and fungus at work together. The pith of these trees is pretty large, and as is the case with most fast growing, yet decay resistant trees, is that the juvenile wood is less resistant than normal heart-wood. When the tree is large enough, then looses a limb, this allows an entry point for the ants to get into the pith. They don't eat the wood like termites, but rather like to excavate chambers for living and raising the young. They make the work easier by bringing in their own fungus to help with the hard work, and maybe they eat it too, but I don't know. You may be outside of the zone where this is likely to happen, which may allow for different growing characteristics. I have seen some pretty large turned pieces from burls which grew out there somewhere. i don't see many burls on them around here. It does tend to be lobed, which would capture bark between the lobes as the tree gets larger.
Thanks for the reply, I rather liked the design myself, it is off the internet, I copied it best as I could, so cudo's go to others on design.
Just curious, I am a native Californian, grew up in the Bay Area and my family still lives in Santa Rosa, where are you from? I never saw any Black Locust when I lived there, so where was this milled at? That may make a difference in the wood itself, but it would still be worth you trying it out, just to get a feel for it, if it is decent enough price.
There are a lot of trees outside of the West Coast that are worth making things out of if you get a chance, look into them, my next try is some Hedge, Bois de Arc, Osage Orange.. all the same tree just different names. Hard as Hell, but might make some cool looking things, inside is yellowish green, like Mulberry, but truns orange as the wood is exposed to sunlight.
Steve
I'm down on the Peninsula in the town of Woodside. As I mentioned in my original post, this is a tree that is being taken down by a local guy I know and because he has a portable mill I can get the tree rough sawn and just dry it myself. Black Locust certainly isn't native to California but it's been a tree species that has been widely planted in the lower 48 so finding the odd tree in CA is not uncommon. This is a tree from a home in Palo Alto, don't know the height but the part I care about is 24" in diameter so it's a pretty good sized tree.I like trying new species, if for no other reason than the creative stimulation a new wood brings. However, I have also come to appreciate how wonderful walnut, cherry, oak, and mahogany are to work with :)
That box is beautiful!
Thanks, I copied from a picture on the internet, I really liked the box myself, but cannot take credit for it.
I see you are in Georgia and a Sawyer, do you have a band mill? I have always wanted to have a portable bandmill. I cut firewood from time to time and have a place where I can air dry some wood, so can you tell me if from a hobbyist standpoint are they worth buying for that, or would I be better off getting an Alaskan Mill (chainsaw with guide) for the small stuff that I would do?
Thanks again for your comments, I enjoyed building that piece.
Steve
Yes, I have a small portable bandmill, a Woodmizeer LT15. Buying that mill was the best woodworking decision that I have ever made. I have sawn 30,000 board feet with it with about 16,000 feet currently in storage. I guess that I hoard wood!
A chainsaw mill is pretty primitive and a wood hog. If you saw any amount at all and like it, you will not be happy with the chainsaw mill. A small bandmill can be bought for $4000- $5000. My LT15 has a 15 Hsp engine and can saw a log up to 27" in diameter. The sawing quality is as good as any mill, large or small, in the Industry. You can get a LT15 for just under $7000. Not much if you use a lot of wood over a number of years. Plus, once people know that you have it, they will want you to saw some logs for them too, plus you can sell some lumber to woodworkers for a decent price, helping you pay for the mill and giving them access to good wood.
Heck, a few nice walnuts logs or cherry logs will pay for the mill.
Edited 2/24/2009 8:35 am ET by DHAM
Do you mean Perry, GA? If not, where is "Pery"? I live in Camden Co., so not a long trek for some air dried wood.
Pete
PCM,
Yes, 10 miles SE of Perry, GA. What wood are you looking for?
Edited 2/24/2009 9:42 am ET by DHAM
The old Chinese used locust (huaimu) for all sorts of furniture. I guess they somehow figured out how to deal with the hardness, in fact there were harder types of wood around that were used in furniture making on a regular basis (Google "huaimu furniture" for a bunch of pictures).
Chris Scholz
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX
Galoot-Tools
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