Hi. I’m building a fireplace surround/ mantle in red oak and red oak ply. The client wants the finish to match that of a piece she already owns, also in red oak. I called the cabinet maker to ask about what they used, and was given a stain product name but they were pretty tight with info as far as application techniques and their topcoat (sealer). I’ve got the stain they mentioned -it’s called “cherry” – but so far can’t get it to look right.
The finished piece is reddish but has a deep black color in the grain, even in the tiny striations of the softer wood. This makes the grain distinct and adds a depth to the piece. My samples so far yield no such color in the grain, which makes me think that theirs was either wiped with a darker color, heated/burned, or chemically treated. I’ve tried using a torch to darken the grain and this seems to work but it’s hard to control. I’ve also tried putting a black stain on first, then wiping/sanding, but this seems to mess with the cherry stain (BTW, I’m working with oil based products) Does anyone have any thoughts on how blacken the grain? Am I on the right track?
Replies
This is actually pretty easy Saul. Go ahead and stain the oak with the 'cherry' stain and let it dry. Then apply a coat of 1# cut shellac to seal the stain. After the shellac dries, sand very lightly with 320 grit paper to smooth. Then apply a dark colored gel stain over the shellac and rub it in well (spread it as far as it will go and quickly wipe the excess). You should now have the cherry colored background with the dark grain. Let the gel stain dry completely, then apply your coats of clear finish to complete the job.
Paul
http://www.finishwiz.com
Paul, two more questions:
How does 1# cut shellac compare with pre mixed Bullseye clear shellac (and can bullseye be substituted if thinned)?
Also. when using the gel stain is it neccessary to wipe with thinner, or will a dry rag work to remove the excess stain?
Thank you, saul
All of Zinsser's shellac finish products include the Bulls Eye brand. The best choice among the pre-mixed shellacs is Seal Coat. This is dewaxed shellac, and presents the least risk of adhesion problems with top coats. Clear and Amber both contain wax and differ largely in whether the shellac resin is bleached or not.
Seal Coat is a 2 lb. cut in the can. To get to one pound cut add two parts of denatured alcohol to three parts of Seal Coat.
You want to wipe off excess stain with a dry rag--wet with thinner it is likely to do too good a job. However, don't wait until the stain gets cured to do the wiping.
Edited 11/22/2005 9:30 am ET by SteveSchoene
Zinsser Clear and Amber Shellac are a 3# cut straight from the can Saul. Zinsser also has a dewaxed shellac that's designed for use as a universal sanding sealer. It's called Seal Coat and comes as a 2# cut. Another option, Zinsser Spray Shellac, is also dewaxed and comes mixed at just under a 1# cut. It's very handy for smaller items but can get pretty expensive on a larger scale like your fireplace surround/mantle. (you can click on the links to read the technical data sheets for the Zinsser products)
If you plan to use oil-base polyurethane or a water-base finish for your clear coats, the dewaxed Seal Coat is your better option. Manufacturers warn of possible adhesion problems if shellac that contains wax is used as a sealer. To reduce the Seal Coat from a 2# cut to a 1# cut, you can mix 1 part denatured alcohol with 2 parts of the shellac. Mixing the alcohol and shellac 1:1 works well also and will give you slightly under a 1# cut.
It's a good idea to have some mineral spirits (paint thinner) and a clean cloth handy when you're using oil-base gel stain Saul. The stain can get tacky really fast if you're not used to working with it, especially on larger surfaces, and a cloth dampened with mineral spirits will clean it up nicely if you have trouble. But, if you work quickly and don't try to do too much at a time, a clean cloth works fine to wipe the excess. If you don't like anything about the way it's looking, wet the cloth with mineral spirits and clean the stain off before it starts to dry.
As always, do a sample, the larger the better, before trying a new finish or technique on a real project.
Paulhttp://www.finishwiz.com
Thanks, fellas,
I'll go get the sealer and denatured alcohol . I've got one more question, and I posted it elsewhere but as long as I've got your attention...
For the solid red oak faceframes and plywood, what's a good sanding schedule to prep for staining? The 4/4 boards are slightly rippled from the tablesaw, but it seems to sand out pretty fast with 80 grit. I've got hand planes, orbital sander, belt sander and could (but prefer not to bother) go borrow a jointer or surface planer. Just wondering what you think, saul
Avoiding the planer and jointer, use the highest grit that removes the machine marks quickly and easily Saul. If the marks are slight, I'd start with 120 grit and if that was too slow I'd move down to 100 grit. If that's too slow go down to 80. Once the marks are removed, work your way back up to 150 grit. If you're using a good random orbit, you can go from 80 to 100 and then skip 120 and go to 150. I almost always sand to 150 before finishing.
Paulhttp://www.finishwiz.com
Thanks alot, paul. I love these forums.
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