Just got a great deal on a new Steel City 3 horsepower table saw from a freight company. The saw had been damaged during shipping and had some paint scratched off of the side as well as a bent motor cover. Got the saw home and spent 30 seconds pounding out the cover. Have checked blade run-out and blade alignment and both are right on the money. Not a bad purchase for $525! The saw did not come with a fence. I have set it up initially with my 30″ Vega fence form my old table saw. I would like to add a fence with a 50″ cutting capacity and thought I would ask for some opinions on the best fence for the money. Have only really used the Vega style fence before. Open to any of the makes and models as long as they are accurate and remain parallel to the blade. Thanks in advance for the help.
Mark
Replies
If you simply want to extend the capacity and are happy with the Vega I would just get another tube. I replaced my 30" tube on my Vega and now have somewhere around a 55" rip capacity. You can buy adhesive backed scales and round steel tubing from outfits like McMaster Carr or MSC. If you can drill and tap a hole it should be an easy upgrade. Just make sure whatever tube you buy has enough meat in the wall to accept around 2-3 threads. The tube that I used had a wall thickness of .065 and I used 1/4-28 hardware to attach it. I did have to make a few more mounting brackets to attach the tube to my extended table. Luckily I have access to a machine shop but with a little ingenuity you should be able to come up with something in your shop.
Good luck,
Tom
The Steel City Industrial fence is the best I have ever used and that includes the Biesemeyer.. Uni-fence.. Shop-fox Classic and Jet. The main reason why is it is designed like the original Biesemeyer which has a bolt on the back coming off the fence. It extends down and has a nylon runner that touches the rail
Hence the fence never touches the table and it will glide like a rocket. I also has 4 teflon adjusters and the two metal and teflon which makes it about as easily adjustable as it gets. I used to think the Biesemeyer was the class of the league.. until I got to use the Steel City which I now have on my SC 5 HP TS.
Good luck...
Sarge..
Do you have an idea what the SC fence would cost?
I believe around $200 (give or take which includes rails) as the fence generally comes with a saw and you don't think much about isolating the cost. But.. I will find out tomorrow and get back to you.
Regards...
Sarge..
$429 plus $38 shipping from Denver to Atlanta from Tool-King. Cheaper than a Biesemeyer but more expensive than a Vega. The best bet would be to purchase from a local Woodcraft or other SC distributor to avoid shipping. In this case maybe too much for the OP as he only paid $540 for the saw.
And now we know why it is best to get a TS with a fence.. :>)
Sarge..
I personally would stick with the Vega and get new 50" tubes. As much as I like the SC fence (best of that type I have ever seen) I really liked the Vega I had (the old Pro model) The micro adjustment was the best thing around IMHO.
And it should be the cheapest way of dealing with this also.
Man I miss my old Vega. Now if SC had a micro adjustment I would be on the other side of this one as it is a nice Fence.
Doug M
If he is trying to keep the cost down as he only paid $540 for the saw, that would be probably the best ticket if.. if.. if you can get the 50" rails for the fence separate? Some manufacturers won't break the fence assembly. I suppose he could just Google or call around to those selling Vega and see.
I haven't used a Vega Doug but... I doubt I would try to upgrade my SC to a fence with micro adjustment as it just is not that important in the way I use a TS. I rip 1/8" wider to be able to take it too my jointer and take 1/16" off each side. To be exact... I like to use a framing square on those precision cuts that has a Starrett tape over the normal marking. I measure from front to blade outside tooth to mid-blade outside tooth and lock it in. I can do that pretty easily considering it seems I have done it a zillion times. Just my preference and approach.
Regards...
Sarge..
Are you saying that you would be on the other side of the fence?
I have looked at Steel City and Tool King and can't find just the fence. You seemed to have found it. Would you post a link to it? Thanks.
First I called Mike Box at Steel City to get the part number and the suggested list which is normally ir-relevant as the distributor will normally go below that. That is true with about all tool manufacturers.. golf clubs.. etc. etc...
Then I called Tool-King and gave them the part # which is: 35767 for the 50" Industrial as the 30" carries a different # obviously.... An individual fence is not a stocking item as they come with the saw so.. Rick at Tool-King had to call Steel City to get their cost to figure customer cost. Margie in Sales called me with the price and $38 shipping from Denver to Atlanta.
Tool-King really didn't discount it from suggested list (?).. probably as it was a special order. So... you could call your local Wood-craft that carries SC and see what they can do. You might also call Woodworker Supply in N.M. to see what they can do as they are also a SC distributor and ship all over the states.
Just give the the parts # and ask them to call SC to get their price and give you one shipped or pick up local......
BTW... if the Austin in Tom is Austin, Tx. ... there are two distributors in town. Wood-craft Supply #328 and The Weatherford Company. If the Austin is not related to Long-horns ( :>) go to the Steel City web-site and look down right side for list of distributors. Chose the state and see if you have one within driving distance.
http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com
Any other questions.. feel free to ask here on the forum or e-mail me from the forum. I work cheap! ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Sarge..
Yes, the Austin in AustinTom is for Austin, TX. I am so used to just finding things online that I never think of actually calling somebody. Thanks for all the help.
You're welcome and good luck...
Sarge..
If anybody is about to make a SC purchase, double check the part number. I downloaded the Users Manual and it says the part number is 35627. Sarge is probably right but it doesn't hurt to double check.
Edited 10/15/2008 12:29 pm ET by AustinTom
I could have crossed the number at my age Tom. But.. your user's manual may be listing the 30" also. Be sure it says 50" a the 30" carries a similar but different number. And be sure to have your dealer confirm the number for 50" before they special order.
Or you can just call Steel City Customer Serview @ 1-877-724-8647 and have them confirm the part # for the 50". Just tell them Sarge sent ya and they will know who I am.
Good luck and sorry if I transposed a number there?
Sarge..
Well, it is probably too much for this fella too. I have a PM 66 which has the Biese clone. It works fairly well. I've often thought it would be nice to have and extra Tee for it that I could somehow mount a feather board. I think that would be much easier to negotiate that the feather I now have to fit in the miter slot. Would that work? That SC sounds nice though. Good fences make good neighbors, you know. I need to do some work on the pawls, shield and splitter more than the fence itself.
Edited 10/14/2008 6:38 pm ET by Tinkerer3
I'm kind of confused on needing another Tee to mount feather boards on as opposed to current feather in the miter slot. A feather on the fence would be for hold-down support.. a feather mounted in the miter would be for left lateral support.... ?? Clarify for me if you would...
BTW... a Biese (even a clone as most all T fences are clones of the Biese) is a great fence. The SC just has the rear bolt with Teflon runner that keeps the fence off the table as the Biese drags the table rear. The original Biese had that feature which is where the Old Dogs at SC got the idea. But Biese dropped the feature for whatever reason? And the SC has 4 additional Teflon adjuster nuts in front.
So... at the price of fences I was shocked as I have always gotten one with the saw and never knew they cost so much. I have bought used TS's for less. Used cars for that matter. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
But then again.. I've been bitching' ever since 6 oz bottle Cokes went from $.05 to $.06 cents and then $.10 a year or so latter. What is the world coming too? :>)
Sarge..
Edited 10/14/2008 7:59 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
"I've been bitching ever since 5¢ to 6¢...."
I think what you are describing is called "inflation" How much have your wages gone up in that time? Disgusting, Isn't it? I mean, I mean........
This would take a little fabrication but my idea would be to possibly have both vertical and lateral support but especially lateral. This would be on the other side of the board being cut so the real fence would hold the workpiece solidly but the feather board would hold the workpiece with its spring action. I think it would be easier to adjust the (fence with the feather) to the board being cut than readjusting the feather in the miter slot for each board you cut. Wait till I patent the thing and then get the government to demand all saws be sold that way. Then you can call me Mr. Stop. Ha, Ha. I'm still probably not to clear on the explanation. It might need to have the end fastened down to really hold enough vertically.
How high is the end of the SC fence held off the table. I was once trying to cut some Formica and was dismayed to find the stuff slid under the fence even with the fence resting directly on the table and damaging my finished product.
Edited 10/14/2008 11:38 pm ET by Tinkerer3
How high?.... You simply turn the bolt in the rear which is threaded into the bottom of the main fence and you can raise it about 1/2" off the table top or... lower it so it touches. With the various adjustments on the front and rear... you are in control of how you want to set it.
Yeah.. I am still a bit confused over the vertical.. lateral issue but await pictures when you take the concept to the assembly line. I have lateral to the left and use a crown guard over-head... I can use a clamp on piece of scrap on the fence to mesh the actual top of the stock if I wish. I sometimes do and almost always with thin plywood on the rare occasions I cut some down for chest backs and drawer bottoms. That is the extent I use ply with an occasional home utility job being the exception.
Regards...
Sarge..
Hi Sarge. Cleanest saw I've ever seen -- thought you were making a coffee table? ;^)
I see you've stopped the crown guard just shy of the centre of the sawblade. Is there a reason for that, or would it hurt to bring it forward a couple of inches towards the operator? The splitter on my TS comes over the blade, so it's possible to have the guard further forward and still be supported.
Cheers, Jim.
The reason stems from the fact that my 2 1/2" dust port on the shield starts where the front of the crown gaurd stops currently. Any more forward and it would obstruct the direct air from a 6.5 HP Shop Vac under the right wing that services the over-head. I have a 6" direct pipe straight to the lower dust port as I en-larged the port from 4" to 6" to avoid a down-size.
But... nothing wrong with going more forward with the crown otherwise even though anything that gets kicked up is going to happen from the rear rising teeth and the forward is not totally necessary IMO, especially since I also use a plastic shield.
***
Hi Sarge. Cleanest saw I've ever seen -- thought you were making a coffee table"? ;^)
Started Oct. 1st.. built it in 5 week-days of 4-6 hours. Another few days of laying finish and dry times. It's sitting on my work-bench curing waiting for wax at this moment. About 38 hours including finishing but not cure times. Hope to post a picture in a few days, maybe even tomorrow as I am taking the day off today to change over phone and internet to one carrier that does my cable.
Here's what it looked like several days ago before applying finish...
Sarge..
Yeah, If I had a SC I would not upgrade either (Heck I have a Biesemeyer and I am not upgrading) it is not worth the cost, and the SC has some very nice features to it, and works very nicely. As for the tube it used to be sold separate a few years back. I happened to be thinking of getting a larger tube and looked into it at the time. I have NO idea what it cost but I have to think it would be a LOT less then a whole new fence.
I can live with out the micro, but it was nice, also the way the Vega is mounted at the front you did not get the saw dust building up in-between the rail and the table, like I get on my Biesemeyer.
One nice thing for me is by taking off the letters for the Biese part I have a "personalized" fence! Ok so that wont apply to most of you. :)
Doug M
Sounds like one of those customized PM's that guy does. I saw a few at IWF and some are just wild with modification. You needs flames to give it a finishing touch. :>)
Sarge..
Several questions or replies --- Those clamps that hold the auxiliary fence. Do you need three? I notice Rockler has a pair on sale so one would have to get two or four. Second: what is a good material for the aux fence. Third: Crown guard has been mentioned several times and I'm not to sure what it is. Fourth: I notice that GM is cutting down on car production so has a factory for sale. I thought before I bought it and started mass producing the fence-feather boards, I had better get your approval and advice. I don't know how to use the camera or even form a good picture from my mind so will try to explain once again. Never was any good at explaining either. My only thought was to somehow mount the feather board on an extra fence instead of trying to mount it in the miter slot or somehow clamp it on the saws table top. Seems it would be much easier to move around. I've never had a kick back so am inexperienced, but I would think the vertical feather board would be better mounted on the fence that you are using as a guide to cut from.
Universal Rockler clamps.... I only used two on the set-up I had before with the Uni-saw half fence which was the same but... I made this fence about 6"-8" longer to give more reference support all the way back to the front rail where the fence has the lever clamp. I probably could have gotten away with 2 as before but... I added one I had left over in a set I broke to use 1 of on something else. It just assures me with the additional length that the false face is butted tightly on the main long fence for the entire length. Again... may not be necessary but the UHMW I work with will flex slightly as opposed to using ply.. phenolic.. etc.
Material...?.... I use UHMV as it if flat.. easy to cut and relatively cheap. Phenolic is even more stable as extremely dense but is hard to cut... use a junk blade as it will eat carbide teeth up. And it's not cheap! A good grade birch or any type veneer ply would work. Take note I said good grade as I am not referring to the import ply that has as many variations and curves as Heidi Klume.
Crown guard.. ? .. Crown means basically top without going to Webster. Notice the red block of hard-wood attached to the top of my splitter. If a kick-back sends stock left my spring-board blocks it. If a KB sends it right the fence blocks.. if a KB sends it directly up the Crown guard blocks. With just a pure riving knife or splitter a piece hurled violently straight up as the rear teeth of the blade tend to do.. it just rides up the riving knife or splitter and continues it's launch. You can make one from anything hard as wood.. phenolic.. plastic.. etc.
I think I get the picture of your feather-board left to block lateral. Simply mounting a feather on a second fence and attaching to the rail on the left of blade. Slide it where you need it as I do with my spring-board held by two T bolts and knobs and ride in an additional miter track on the left side of the saw I added.
Good idea but.. I think it would not be readily accepted because of the high cost of an additional fence. There are other ways that would be much easier as I have done. With T-bolts.. knobs.. track and scrap ply my addition cost about $20 not counting my labor.
Regards...
Sarge..
"Good idea but I think it would not be readily accepted...."
Wow Sarge, Got that discouraging message just in time to stop the transaction of that GM factory. I haven't understood your method using T-bolts knobs etc. Do you have a pic or otherwise can you explain. $20 isn't much if it will avoid a kickback.
Crown guard. Did you remove the original guard and replace the block of wood for the crown guard? What is wrong with the original guard? The thing I don't like is the time it requires to extract and replace it when necessary. But that would be required for the crown guard also.
Thanks, you are helping me to be a safer woodworker.
Tink (Paul Lundberg)
I sort of modified so my plastic shield comes off in about 10 seconds, Tink. The crown guard has two T bolts that go through holes drilled in the side of the crown guard (which is nothing more in this case than a block of shaped, scrap hard-wood) and are attached on the other side by through threaded star knobs. So.. the plastic shield comes off in about 10 seconds but most cases you take it off with the crown guard which takes about 20 seconds to remove or replace.
I can take the whole splitter off in under a minute also as I kind of did some simple modification there with cam lever bolts in lieu of the original hex nuts which require a wrench. So.. not any trouble at all and in a normal shop day that gets done once or twice and blades get changed an average of 4 times for various set-ups.
I won't attempt to explain in detail as pictures would be the simple way to show you. But.. my chief photo developer had to make an emergency trip to the hospital with pneumonia Friday around noon. I hope to spring her tomorrow with any luck but won't ask her to do pictures for me for a few days when she gets her strength back.
Sometime in the near future I will go back to this thread after I take some detail pictures and post them to you here. OK?....
Sarge..
Edited 10/19/2008 12:01 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge,I shifted out of mdf for a secondary short fence and tried your uhmw strip. Milled it back to precise 3/4 thickness and drilled out for two Rock clamps. All good until I snugged up the clamps on the fence. The less than perfect right angles of the clamp bars toward on the plastic side push it out from the fence but worse, for me, the inboard pressure of the clamp bar insert against UHMW toward the fence results in a out bow on the outboard side resulting in an jut out at front of short UHMW and at the back.
Put another way, a scoop inboard on the short fence. 16th or better.
Net result is the work piece is being artificially thrust into the back of the blade at the very point when it should be glancing away from the blade. Have you noticed this? Is that the reason you put a third clamp in the UHMW? May have to go to Phenolic or back to MDF.Hope you had a good Gwinnett Bird day.Doc
If you go to a longer face (still a half fence but extends further toward the front rails) you will probably have to go with 3 as I did. And if you have one shorter as I now have I placed them close to front and rear of the UHMW to avoid exactly what you mentioned.
If you have a piece of UHMW that is cupped to begin with as the material will flex and I have seen some that just develops a bow... then do as you stated and go to MDF.. phenolic.. baltic ply.. etc. etc. Again to answer the original question... yes, it is the reason I used 3 and you must align the clamps as close to square as possible. But.. I find that an eye-balling them I have no problem.
Regards...
Sarge..
if you ever have to cut laminate, just take a piece of 1/8 or even 1/4 mdf .maybe a foot by two.set the fence to an inch and make a cut along the 2 foot length, stopping short an inch.stop the saw and remove the piece.score the attached strip with a knife and snap it off.you are left with a tab.set your fence to your laminate(oversize) dimensions and slide the mdf into the blade ,riding the fence of coarse until the tab stops on the end of the fence.then you can cut your laminate against the fence,as it is raised up to a level where it gets solid contact.since you cut oversize and trim after, this works great.i work in a huge shop and we do all laminate.we cut 10 foot sheets and always use a riser.it works even if you are set far from the fence, say 3 or 4 feet or 1/2 inch away.either it's engaged in the blade or away from it.the tab keeps it stable.if you think it's not safe, well it's alot safer than getting your formica jammed mid cut.if all you lose is your laminate, consider yourself lucky.my 2 cents
as he only paid $540 for the saw. AMEN AMEN.. Lets alls sing... as he only paid $540 for the saw.
Good one Sarge.. If you are my old Army Drill Master.. We have some issuses to resolve!
I have my doubts about being your Drill Master, Will. The only training I ever did was OJT to replacements on my Hunter Killer Team in VN. Some listened... some didn't. You can't win em all, unfortunately. :>)
Sarge..
Vega would have been one of my top suggestions for bang for the buck....very nice fence with a great microadjust system.
If you want simple and reasonable, check out mulecab.com. Canadian firm, very nice fence; I particularly like the way you can attach "stuff" to the sides and top easily. I got the 50" a few years back for under $200 delivered to our PO Box in WA. Just a thought.
You got a killer deal on the saw, you could afford to go nuts on the fence if you wanted to (INCRA: super-micronic, aerospace design, capable of exponential division of gnats butt hair). Then again maybe you just want a decent fence at decent price.
Best of luck on your decision and enjoy the h*** out of whatever you get!
Regards,
Mack
"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
Get the longer rails for the Vega. I've used most of the aftermarket fences,Vega is as accurate as any of them.
mike
Does anybody have any experience with the ShopFox fence, (not the ShopFox Classic fence)? How does it compare to the SC Industrial fence? (The ShopFox fence locks on both ends and rides on rollers. The Classic locks on one end and slides on glides.) I have been using the ShopFox fence for about 10 years and am considering switching for a variety of reasons.
Take a look at the Redline fence
http://store.thesawshop.com/catalogue/default.php
Don
I designed and built a fence just like this using simular materials. I have it on an old Craftman contractor saw.
It is dead accurate and holds real well. I can easily tweak a setting using the hold down bolt.
I love it.
Edited 12/10/2008 5:04 pm ET by RonT
Ron,
I love mine to. Dave has added some slick attachments which utilize the channels in the tubing. I bought the bandsaw version also. the attachments work with it. I lost a few inches of throat depth, but gained a very robust high fence for resawing.
Don
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