I am just getting into using hand planes and read about using bee’s wax on the sole to reduce friction. It works amazingly well. However, does the wax leave a residue that would interfere with glue ups or finish?
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As the wax works off the plane, it has to end up on the wood so if I am planning a tenon could the bee’s wax keep the glue from grabbing. Similarly, if you leave some of the wax on the surface could it cause a problem with the finish? I realize sanding would remove any residual wax so do you always sand or scrape after planning to remove any wax or is there just not enough wax left to matter.
Replies
How are you using the wax? If you are putting a whisper light coat on, letting it dry and buffing it, there isn't any wax to be worried about. If you are slathering fresh wax on the sole and going at the wood, you are going to have a contamination problem. The key to using wax is going light. Whether you are polishing a fine motorcar or reducing friction on a plane. If a week or so after you have waxed your car you see dried white wax in some of the nooks and crannies you are using way too much wax.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I have just been taking the stick of wax and rubbing some on. Hadn’t tried to wax it like I a car. The bee’s wax stick I have is hard is there softer wax that would work like a past wax?
Bob T.
I use the same stuff on my planes as on my power tool table tops - Boeshield. I follow that with a coat of paste wax if I want a really slick surface - so slick that my planes will almost run themselves over the work. Apply the paste wax, let dry until hazy, then buff out just like waxing your car. Lots of guys just take a candles and make a little scribble on the plane sole. Quick and easy.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
So far I have just put a little scribble on the plane sole using a stick of Bee's wax. Ill try buffing it out or perhaps a little past wax.
Is it truly bee's wax or parafin? I had some bee's wax I purchased several years ago that was way to sticky to be of assistance. Also, don't ever try to use the wax ring from a toilet as there are other additives in the ring.
I find my best results are achieved simply by using Johnson's furniture paste wax. Seems far better to me to reduce friction and aids in rust protection (in both cases, far better than camellia oil).
T.Z.
What I am using is a stick or purified Bee’s was I picked up at Woodcraft. It does seem sticky but it reduces friction quite well.
Bob t.
I've used that same beeswax on the sole of my planes without a problem. In fact, Rob Cosman shows the technique in one of his videos. Since I sand the surface after I plane, the small abount of wax that may have accumulated on the wood is gone before I start finishing.
Jim
Sticks of caning wax from the grocery store are likely less expensive.
That said, one of the issues with Bee's wax being thicker is that it is just sticker is all. A good practice is that shellac will seal any issues with wax and any desired topcoat can be applied with zero issues.
Other film finishes used solely on a surface that may still have residual wax can develop fisheyes.
Take care, Mike
I'm guess ing it depends upon what youa re going to use for the finish. If you are using an oil or oil based varnish, the wax is not going to be a problem. If you are using shellac, again I don't imagine there would be a problem. If you are using a water based acrylic poly, though, the wax might be an issue.
I wax my planes same as you and I've never encountered a problem with any finish. If you are worried though, why not just wax the toe of the plane? That way you get some lubricity and each shaving will remove surface wax.
Worst case, you might have to scrape an area that was "contaminated" with beeswax. It's never happened to me. I say wax away.
Adam
paraffin wax works really well.
Don’t all commercial waxes contain silicone? Bee’s wax doesn’t.
I’m worried far more about silicone contamination than I am with a little pure wax, although I can’t say I’ve noticed a problem with finishing.
Why would silicone contamination be more of a problem than wax?
Bob T.
Y,Don't worry about wax contaminating your woodwork.
Alcohol dissolves wax.
If you keep a large vat of alcohol around, you can just soak each piece of furniture before you finish it. A few hours should do it.Some people will criticize my suggestion as being too expensive. But you only have to buy the vat and the alcohol once. But remember to seal the vat well because the alcohol will evaporate if you don't.:-)Have fun. Don't take everything you read here too seriously.
I believe you are worrying too much about the bit of wax on the sole of your plane.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
A large cold container with alcohol in it may be a good idea but wouldn’t soaking wood in it make it taste funny?
Bob T
Bob,
"but wouldn't soaking wood in it make it taste funny? "Naw, the wood tastes funny already.
The alcohol kills the germs, and makes a nice sauce for the wood.I am pushing "wood sushi" as a new idea for restaurants. The pieces are very small. Just slivers, actually. THis increases the fiber in your diet. I got this idea from my father. I guess I am just a chip off the old block.You got a good sense of humor. Keep it up. You'll live longer.
Enjoy.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
What kind of a wood sushi epicure are you? You know the best wood sushi must be sliced from a live tree. :>)
Herr Doktor Professor Herzig,
From your wise response to me, I would guess you are a scientist and a researcher.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
"The alcohol kills the germs"
Aw, come on now. It's the germs that made the alcohol in the first place. Alcohol is their waste product. Do you suppose the germs die by drowning in their own waste?
Definitely. That is why it is not possible to get wine or beer beyond about 15%, depending on the yeast. Any higher proof requires distillation. That is also why waterless hand cleaners are mostly alcohol.
Tink
"It's the germs that made the alcohol in the first place."
I was just trying to make him feel good about spending all that money on building the big tank.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I know.
If you were over your head in your own waste you would wish you were dead.But that is not what I came to say. I am here to tell a tale:At a AA meeting a group leader had a demonstration all set up. He had two beakers full of clear liquid. He had some earth worms in a jar with some dirt.He said to his bored audience "In this first beaker I have pure water and in this second beaker I have grain alcohol. I will now drop a worm in each beaker and I want you to observe the reaction of these worms".He dropped the worms in.The worm in the beaker filled with water just wriggled around and was fine. The worm dropped into the beaker filled with the alcohol began to wreath in torment and finally was still.He said "Well people? Can you tell me the lesson from what we have seen here today?"Some old crusty guy in the back said "Well the way it looks to me, if you drink alcohol regularly you will never have worms".
Edited 11/8/2008 3:26 am by roc
Mel' that's what I told the revenooers when they come to bust my still. Now I have to build another vat to clean the wax on my furniture.
mike
Mike,
Them damn revenooers are always giving trouble to woodworkers who are only interested in soaking their furniture to get the wax off before putting the finish on.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Y1RET silicone contamination will cause finishes to repel those areas of the piece that are contaminated, some call this action cissing, because the finish actually moves away from these areas, basically it doesn't adhere and just rolls off sort of like water on a waxed car just in smaller areas. It leaves little circular spots where the finish will not adhere, usually referred to as fish eyes.Ron BreseIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
Thanks, that is good to know. I was thinking of trying one of the paste wax’s we use for cars but I believe most auto waxes have silicone in them. Ill have to read the label to be sure.
Bob T.
Lie Nielsen sells paraffin wax for lubricating planes, so I figure if that's good enough for them to recommend then it's good enough for me.
There is an old time British wood worker who has videos on using hand planes. I would mention his name but Ed H. says that is not allowed here. : )
He has a big block of wood with a rolled up cloth in it soaked with oil. Seems like he said unboiled linseed oil but I would recommend camillia oil. Boiled is a bad idea: might harden but more importantly might spontaneously combust.
He just drags his plane sole across the block with the roll projecting above it and he starts planing. He says he saves time and effort by not having to turn the plane over every little bit and rub something on it.
I have not made one of these yet so here is what I am currently using. I have a chunk of glider wax for skis that I scrub on like a crayon. It has caused no finish problems with shellac or oil/poly finishes.
If you like the paste wax idea the micro-crsystallin Renaissance wax:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1304
works very well. Mine cost less because I bought it years ago. This is good stuff to have around to wax furniture and the little bit on the plane soles does not use it up fast so once you buy it isn't expensive 'cause it lasts for a long time.
In the past I was using a rag with camillia oil in a little tuper ware container to lube my planes. I just got lazy with the ski wax and will probably make the Kingshott oil block.
Edited 10/31/2008 2:05 am by roc
Edited 10/31/2008 2:18 am by roc
Edited 10/31/2008 2:20 am by roc
I just carry a candle in my pinny pocket roc. It comes in for all sorts of lubricating jobs. A quick squiggle does it on a hand plane; the same applies for lubricating the tables and fence of a surface planer, and it does a fine job on the bed of a thickness planer too.
A box of five candles something like 3/4" in diameter from a grocery shop or hardware store costs perhaps 60 or 70 pence-- less than a pound or so anyway. I lose the box before I get to them all worn out in their role as lubricants. I've never experienced any problems later with glueing up jobs or applying a finish of any sort.
The motto is, I suppose, the simpler and cheaper the better in my experience. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
I'm cheaper, er, more frugal, yet. I use the burnt-down stubs out of the wife's candlesticks. She likes to replace them when they get down to 3" or so, just the right size to lay across the bed of a plane. Good to reach into a case and give a swipe along drawer runners, too.
Ray
PS I used to salvage the stubs of those great big candles that are in front of the church sancuary, when they get replaced. I figured since they came from church, they would be blessed. But, since they still have that piece of string running down the middle, they are in fact, wicked...
And I thought I was cheap Ray, but ... well, I guess you take the candle.
You mentioned church and 'acquiring' the old candle stubs; did those trips to church include a bit of singin', 'n kneelin', 'n prayin', 'n happy clappin', 'n rhythmic swayin' and, crucially, shoving $10 bills on to the collection plate? If your candle stub hunting church tripsdid involve any of those actions (or similar) then my trips to the grocery shop are probably cheaper still, ha, ha. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
Of late, my churchgoing experiences are like those of Paddy, who came home from pub one evening after winning that nite's competition in reciting the best toast:"Here's to the best times I've had in me life--lyin' in bed, 'tween the legs of me wife!"
Arriving home, the little woman, Kathleen, asked how he'd come by the new loving cup? "Well me pet, 'twas I, 'twas, that thought up the best toast." "And, what might that have been, Paddy?"
Thinking quickly, Paddy recited a slight modification:"Here's to the best times I've had in me life...Sittin' in church next to me wife."
Next Saturday on her way to market, Kathleen runs into Paddy's best mate, Michael, and says to him,"Ah, Michael, were ye at pub t'other evenin' when me Paddy won the cup for best toast?" "Indeed I was, Kate, an' did he happen to share wi' ye, what the winnin' toast was?"
"Aye, that he did, Michael, that he did. But truth to tell, I must admit he did exaggerate a bit." "Oh, pray tell, Kate, whaddya mean?"
"To be pairfectly honest, he's only been there twice. First time, he fell asleep. And the second time, I had to pull him by his ear, to get him to come!"
Ray
I do like that tall story. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
joinerswork,
I used to use my wife's stubby end candle stick end but found too much precious time was being lost trying to find the darn thing in the tool drawer. My new solution is to stick the eraser end of a pencil in my ear and smear it on the plane...it's very fast cause I usually find my ears under my bucken hat.
Ah BG, now we are getting into the truly cheap and cheerful means of lubricating plane soles. Two I've seen people do are as follows:
Draw the tip of your index finger down the side of your nose, then rub it from back to front on the sole of the plane.
This works best I guess if you're not a regular with shampoo and showers-- drag the plane backwards over the hair on your head. The guy I saw do this held the plane by the rear handle and dragged it backwards over his hair sideways from the top of the head towards his left ear.
Both methods seem to have a lubricant effect. I'll admit to trying the side of the nose and index finger trick; it seemed to work pretty well when I lived in Texas and I spent my whole day in the workshop sweating buckets. However, it was not necessary to do any work to sweat like a dog in Texas; it, to me, is a natural climatic hell-hole that any sane person would want to leave at the first opportunity. I don't even really know why I agreed to move there in the first place, apart from the fact that the nagging queen I'm married to is a Texan! And now that we live in the balmy and pleasant climate we experience in the UK she's always cold. I guess we'll never find a climate that suits both of us, ha, ha Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 10/31/2008 4:27 pm by SgianDubh
Sgian,As usual, your sage advice deserves careful consideration and I'm going to think about incorporating the hair trick technique into my work processes. To be honest, I'd probably prefer pulling the plane backwards from hindquarter to hindquarter but there might be other contaminates to deal with....I'm sorry to hear your wife is frigid. If you had married an Irish Catholic girl you would have seen it's part of the boiler plate in all pre-nup contracts. Also, you would have a clearer idea of what all the kneeling, praying, singing on Sunday morning is really all about.
Richard,
I've seen the finger along the nose trick used in another context. Saw a fellow at a party run his nose-oily fingertip round the rim of his beer mug. The oil keeps the beer's head from overflowing as it is poured--the foam just melts away as it contacts the oil on the rim of the glass. Disgusting, but it works. Criminal to waste beer by leaving a ring on the bar...
Ray
That is disgusting. I guess prefer to guzzle a bit, and then top up the glass again, hence no rings on the bar. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
I guess prefer to guzzle a bit..
My Doctor told me I had to give up DRINKING.. I now sip all day long...
Edited 11/2/2008 1:24 pm by WillGeorge
My doctor told me to drink two glasses of red wine per day. He didn't specify glass size though!
T.Z.
"PS I used to salvage the stubs of those great big candles that are in front of the church sancuary, when they get replaced. I figured since they came from church, they would be blessed."
Excellent,can't fault the logic there, and no doubt you also took a nip of altar wine to keep the woodworms out...
Here's great tip for Old Chinas like you and Richard: use red or yellow candles rather than ordinary white ones- these are more easily seen amongst the general workshop detritus....(;)Philip Marcou
philip,
You got so close.
I thought you were gonna critique my blessed/wicked/church/candle pun. I thought it was quite clever. Sigh.
But I digress. I don't need to keep candle stubs visible in all the detritus. Not because I keep a clean shop (I don't). But I have candle stubs like I have pencil stubs--all over the place. When I look, I can usually find one; maybe not the one I was looking for...
Ray
I just carry a candle in my pinny pocket ..
Just a thought I had.. As I recall, 'real' Church candles are made of 100% Bees Wax..
"'real' Church candles are made of 100% Bees Wax"
They might be Will, but I don't know; I'm not religious and only go to places of worship for the sake of other people, eg, weddings, funerals and the like. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
HAY! Not pushing anything on you! Just the wax!
..........Church candles are made of 100% Beeswax. Just a thought/question. Is this what makes them dripless?
I have no idea but I believe it is because every part of the wax is consumed by the fire. I believe that the ratio of wick to candle thickness plays a part. I have seen 100% beeswax candles drip but I think it is only when they burn in a draft. Maybe lowers the flame/wax temperature so not all of the wax is consumed?
Just a guess on my part.
SgianDubh,: ) The glider ski wax is probably made in the same manufacturing plant out of the same stuff as your candles but when they sell it as ski wax they mark it up ten times more : )It was just laying close at hand so I grabbed it when I did not feel like messing with the camillia oil rag container.Cheers
": ) The glider ski wax is probably made in the same manufacturing plant out of the same stuff as your candles but when they sell it as ski wax they mark it up ten times more : )"
As someone that skis, I should mention that most ski waxes contain silicone. I don't finish my pieces with laquer, but that might casue a problem for those that do. I use beeswax cones from http://www.thebestthings.com They're dirt cheap, and last a very long time. I find the cone shape to be very convenient for waxing the inner recesses of molding planes.
dkellernc...
I think we all do this so no hate here.. Post a link to the general subject and not the exact post intended!
Hard to think of what YOU are seeing at the time!
dkellernc,>Dangers of glider ski wax to finishes.Thanks for the friendly warning !Of course I like to verify everything. I proof read carbon copies : )
Did a search for silicone in glider ski wax. Nada.Chemistry is one of my big blind spots so if any one sees what I missed chime in.Do you have any sites I can look at ?This is what I found:Ski lubricant comprising paraffinic wax and a hydrocarbon compound containing a perfluoro segment
Document Type and Number:
United States Patent 5202041Abstract:
Compounds which can be defined by the formula (I): CF3 --Cn F2n --Cm H2m --CH3 (I)
wherein:
n is a numeral comprised within the range of from 1 to 21;
m is a numeral comprised within the range of from 3 to 25;
n+m is a numeral equal to, or higher than, 18;
with the chain of carbon atoms being either linear or branched
are used as agents affording sliding characteristics (ski-waxes) for skis, to be applied onto the ski sole, and/or to be incorporated inside the ski sole. A sliding composition is also disclosed, which contains a paraffinic wax and at least one compound with formula (I).*****************
Wiki entry for Silicone:
More precisely called polymerized siloxanes or polysiloxanes, silicones are mixed inorganic-organic polymers with the chemical formula [R2SiO]n, where R = organic groups such as methyl, ethyl, and phenyl. These materials consist of an inorganic silicon-oxygen backbone (…-Si-O-Si-O-Si-O-…) with organic side groups attached to the silicon atoms, which are four-coordinate.At:http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/Tyler_Freeman/waxing.htmI found:
The 4 traditional materials combined to make ski wax are:
• petroleum jelly are constituted by light branched hydrocarbon molecules like that shown below on the right. These make a softer wax with a oily feel.
• paraffin are constituted by long, straight hydrocarbon molecules like that shown below on the left. These can be both heavy and light but the lighter paraffins are used because of their lower melting point.. Paraffins make a hard wax more suitable to cold conditions.
• microwax: are constituted by heavy, branched hydrocarbon molecules. Microwax is harder than both paraffins and petroleum jelly.
• Fischer Tropsch wax is derived from coal tar and is the hardest and heaviest of all the waxes.For petroleum jelly I found:
Active Ingredients: Petrolatum. Other Ingredients: Water, Aluminum Starch Octenylsuccinate, C12-15 Alkyl Lactate, Myreth-3 Myristate, Glycerin, Cetearyl Alcohol, Microcrystalline Wax, Tocopheryl Acetate Ceteareth-20, Carbomer, Tea, Ethylene Brassylate, Methylparaben, DMDM Hydantoin, Disodium EDTA, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate. I searched for allergy to ski wax because of silicone content and found nothing.So my jury is still out but thanks for the warning ! ! !
rocPS: makes sense that there would be none. You wouldn't want it coming off your tips and mixing with your kicker wax.
Edited 11/5/2008 9:55 pm by roc
>I would mention his name but Ed H. says that is not allowed here.<Ha ha ha. Drop as many names as you wish, roc, don't mind me. I'm getting to the time of year where I can only give knots a cursory glance from time to time and I think I've already read books by those people whose thoughts you're trying to regurgitate so I'm not worth making allowances for. Take care, EdEdit to add: Pure paraffin wax where you buy canning supplies. Like a candle without the dye or scent additives. $1.69 for a lifetime supply. Considering that a block will fit right into your tool box and a swipe on the sole of a plane improves performance by about 375% (scientifically measured), a worthwhile investment. Good luck."Yes, but what's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded." - Augustus McCrae, Lonesome Dove
Edited 10/31/2008 11:57 am by EdHarrison
I have seen words like 'a container filled with cotton and vegetable oil to lubricate the chisel or plane'
I have no idea what kind of vegetable. I won't say where because it is not allowed? and besides I forget the exact book I read it in. Book my a master Shoji maker and a few others books from Japanese woodworkers. Maybe the rice glue makes a difference?
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