I am making a mission style bed. The plans I used specify the length of the headboard and footboard rails “between the tenons.” I goofed and cut them the specified length before cutting the tenons. Needless to say, they are now 3 inches too short. I’ve already cut mortises for 37 slats in each of the four boards so I don’t really want to start over. I’m using quarter sawn white oak.
Is there any way I can “add” to my rails without sacrificing strength. I’m so fed up with the whole project now that aesthetics is not as important as it once was.
Thanks for any ideas or suggestions.
Replies
Put a mortice at each end of each rail and make up a double length tenon. They're known as slip tenons or loose tenons. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Put a mortice at each end of each rail and make up a double length tenon. They're known as slip tenons or loose tenons. Slainte.
I'm new to this so bear with me. If I do what you say, won't I have a gap between the rail and the mortise on the leg. In other words, the shoulder of the rail won't touch the leg.
I hope I am explaing this correctly.
I think you cut the tenon already, corect?
Edited 3/28/2008 6:47 pm ET by gofigure57
I think you were, and are, trying to say the rails are the right length between the cut ends. In other words the length you've got is the length the rails should be between the shoulder lines, and that the tenons should extend beyond the shoulder line into the bed post.
If that's the case, then doing as I suggested is one very workable solution. If the rails are altogether too short, just abandon them and make new rails the correct length and use the wasted wood elsewhere. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Use bed hardware, it's available in several catalogs, in several styles. You are better off using the hardware anyway because it allows you to disassemble the frame which makes it much easier to move the bed.
If you still want to use a tenon make a floating tenon, cut a mortise in the end of the rail and glue in a tenon, it will be nearly as strong as a conventional tenon.
John White
My message was not clear. My problem is with the rails that make up the headboard and footboard. Because of my error, they are three inches too short so the mattress will not fit if I ever complete the darn thing.
I already have the hardwear to attach the side rails to the headboard and footboard.
Got it now. 1. Look at adding a block to the side of each post where the rail comes in. Make it look like it was an intentional part of the design.2. Shorter mattress.John W.
John took my idea. Are the rails too short even for loose tenons to fix the problem? Add some sort of a shaped block to the posts (large glue surface), then mortise into that.On the other hand, these are the shorter rails of the project. I think if it were me I'd just buy more wood. The last time I hurried through a bed I ended up really not liking the design in the end and it gets me every time I think about it. What wasted potential!Brian.
I am amazed by the wealth of advice everyone has offered in such a short time.
Since I already cut the tenons on the rails, loose tenons are not an option. I have enough wood to make new rails, but the prospect of cutting mortises for the 37 slats in the mission style bed makes my head spin.
I think I will try to add blocks to the legs and re-cut the mortises. One more question, though. Will glue be sufficient or should I use screws too. I know there will be a lot of glue surface, but I would sure hate for one or more of the blocks to come loose while the wife and I (and the dogs) are sleeping. I think I can position the screws so that they will be hidden by the shoulder of the rails, at least on the bottom rails which are six inches wide.
Thanks for all your advice.
If I truly understand your problem, I am not comfortable with your proposed solution: adding blocks to the LEGS. Assuming 1 1/2" tenons, already cut, i would propose a 3" mortised block, fitting over the tenon on the RAIL, and then a loose tenon between the block and the leg. This assumes that the rails are 1 1/2" short. If they are 3" short, I would follow the same procedure but I would "sister" a reinforcement on the inside of the rail.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Frosty,
Assuming that blocks are added to the legs: How about loose tenons that are long enough to go thru the blocks and into the mortises in the leg?
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/31/2008 1:06 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Hot damn! We're on a roll. I like it.Let's build a bed with "too short rails" and try these ideas out.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Tomster ,
One more option , it sounds like your main objection to making new rails is all the mortises for the 37 slats have already been made and you would rather not make them again in new rails .
Why not slice off the part of the rails that has the mortises with enough extra to make a good seam and solid glue joint to new rail material the correct length ?
good luck dusty
"how good we are is how good we fix our mistakes"
Dusty, thanks for the advice. I will prove that your motto is correct one way or the other. :)
Tom ,
I re read your posts and realized you had already cut the tenons , so to add to my suggestion you will need to splice an 1 1/2" to each end , perhaps you could make a clean little miter and hide the seam with the same color and grained wood or go 180 ° off and use a piece of contrasting colored wood .
may the wood lords be with you
dusty
I think the glue would be plenty strong provided you orient the grain of the block the same as the leg and the block is oversized. Stub mortising the block into the leg would be a good option, too. Is there already a mortise in the leg? If so I think you must fill it in, maybe with a new tenon from the block. Brian
Tomster--If you have cut the mortise, but have not cut the tenon, then the suggestion of a loose tenon seems like a good idea. My apologies if you know more about loose tenons than I will ever know, but in case the term "loose tenon" isn't conveying what is meant, there is a very short QuickTime video showing how a loose tenon fits together here:http://www.whitanderson.com/wood/loosetenon/If you have cut the tenon, then the solution is harder. Adding a piece to the post might solve your problem if you can make it look good.--WhitIf you have money, buy wood and tools. If you have money left over, buy food and clothing.
Got to the 4th post before some wiseguy mentioned using the board stretcher.
You've already got good suggestions.
This happens to me from time to time. What I do is...
1) Order wood to replace what I screwed up.
2) set the project aside for a week or so, so that I want to work on it when I get back to it.
3) make a "to do" list that includes checking all the other measurements, so that I don't do it again on THIS project.
Good luck - we ALL make some variation of this mistake from time to time.
Mike D
I'd have to agree that loose tenons would be the way to go in this situation. Gary Rogowski uses them in his greene and greene style bed I'll attach a link to it below. Good luck!!!
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ProjectsAndDesign/ProjectsAndDesignPDF.aspx?id=2787
Russ.
I recently completed a kind size bed. The issue I faced was stiffness. Though this or that design may be strong enough, you may want something stiff enough so that you don't feel that you and your wife are sleeping in a ditch. Richard's floating tenons would be okay. Otherwise, you want a nice long grain piece. I say scrap it and move on. Don't beat yourself up about it either. Painters waste paint. Woodworkers need to burn through wood to learn.
Adam
What about making blocks w/ mortise on one side and tenons on the other...glue the exst tenons into the new mortise and then glue the whole stretcher w/ new blocks & tenons into the old mortise. Make the blocks look like they belonged by chamfering the edges and give it a beefier looking connection.
Yes, I understand. I can't just leave a mistake without trying to fix it. Or have the money to just buy more wood. I would cut off the tenon and glue on the length I need using dowels. Three or four dowels 1/2" dia. Cut the new tenons before glue up.
Why not just leave the tenened ends and add another tenend piece (contrasting wood?) over them this way it'll look like you just added a contrasting wood as part of the design and you still have the larger surface area for gluing as aposed to dowels which can be a pain to align?
ChaimMake your own mistakes not someone elses, this is a good way to be original !
Why don't you just add thrid leg to your Head and Footboard that would make up the difference that you cut short. I think it might add a little character as well.
Tomster,
The suggestion you got from old dusty (41056.16) was quite good. If you have the time before moving forward with your project, you might check out Beds by Jeff Miller, p. 97. (Taunton Press). This might give you an additional slant (not slat) on how to apply dusty's sage advice.
Best!
-nazard
In all honesty Tom, I know this may be unpopular with you but I think when it's all said and done, if you have the material then re-make the rail. I've had a few instances of catastrophic nincompoopery in my career, some have had solutions that were viable and some I just had to bite the bullet and re-make the piece. I remember one time making a very beautiful base for this bookcase that was complete with hand cut half blind dovetails, I went to put the case on it and it was an inch to small. I had measured using the one inch mark to get a more accurate reading and I forgot to make the necessary adjustment. I think when it's all said and done and you look at your bed completed the way it was intended you'll hopefully agree that it was the right thing to do.
Good luck in whatever direction you decide to take. Cheers.
Russ.
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