Replies

1. 
   AlanTurner | Feb 26, 2003 09:55pm | #1

   On beds I have made or repaired, the rail is tenoned, and a shallow blind mortise is cut in the post.  The only purpose of the bolt is to hold the two together, with the bottom of the tenon and mortise carrying the weight.  I don't think 2 bolts would be an advantage.

2. 
   Sprucegum | Feb 26, 2003 10:56pm | #2

   I also believe 2 bolts would be overkill, the load-bearing is done by the tenon.

   On a 7" wide side rail I went with 2 tenons with the bolt in the middle. It seems to be very strong in the scrap piece test that I did.

   Good luck

   It's not what you chew, it's how you chew it
3. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 26, 2003 11:01pm | #3

   Besides the load, there's also the issue of resistance to racking. I think two bolts might be useful on that account, expecially if the mortise and tenon fit is less than perfect.

1. 
   KevinLBS | Feb 27, 2003 12:18am | #4

   Uncle Dunc-  You know, you've touched on something which a lot of people mention briefly in bed making, but no one really addresses it fully.

   Racking.

   In the real world, this is what I call "A bed's ability to hold up while making love to your spouse/girlfriend/whatever". I think 95% of all beds I've ever slept in sway and creak to a certain extent.  I've seen so many posts from new woodworkers (including myself) trying to be sly when asking about joinery and hardware for bed rails.  I know I would love to build a bed for my wife and I, but what if it's wobbly after spending hundreds on good wood (no pun intended)? I know a good joint with a bed bolt will keep the bed from falling completely apart, but what about stability (and lack of swaying & creaking) under "racking" conditions?

   I suspect the originating post might just have this in mind...

   I always see these posts that basically say "a bed bolt and a mortise and tenon joint will be all you need", but I'm still doubtful.  Maybe the question should be "How can I make a bed rock-solid and immobile?" instead of "What's the best hardware to use?"

   My goodness, I hope I'm not being too frank :)

   Kevin

1. 
   oxmach | Feb 27, 2003 12:45am | #6

   Kevin,

   I've built a few beds with bed bolts and MT joinery.  If you can make these creak with your ahem; action, then although I don't know your line of work, but I suspect you may have a future in the movies.  Seriously, this is a method that produces rock solid results.  Nothing like the hook arrangement used in todays knock down (mobile) beds.  You do have to see it to believe it.

   Greg

2. 
   MHargrove | Feb 27, 2003 05:36am | #7

   Sorry for the dumb newbie question, but what does "racking" mean?

   -M.

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 27, 2003 05:43am | #8

   Racking is where a rectangle gets distorted into a parallelogram. In the case of a bed, the rails remain parallel to the floor, and the headboard and footboard both lean in the same direction, remaining parallel to each other but no longer perpendicular to the floor.

1. 
   Biscardi | Feb 27, 2003 06:09am | #9

   I just made a bed with 8/4 cherry rails. The tenon  is 1 1/2 inch x  5 inches x 3/4 inch. There is a 1/4 inch bolt going through the joint in the usual arrangment with the nut accessed through the inside of the rail from a bored out hole. You'd have to eat a case of oysters followed by a dozen Viagra to make it even squeak.

   Overbuilt? Yeah, why not!

   Frank

2. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 27, 2003 06:34am | #10

   Well, I'd have used a 5/16" bolt, but other than that ...

   ;)

   Have you seen the detail where the nut is a piece of round steel stock with a tapped hole through it sideways? That way you don't even need clearance for a wrench, just drill a blind hole from the inside of the rail and slip the thing in. Of course the bolt hole and the nut hole do have to be correctly aligned, but hey.

3. 
   Biscardi | Feb 27, 2003 08:19pm | #11

   That sounds like a much easier fastner to use.

   Frank

4. 
   tailsorpins | Mar 13, 2003 09:30pm | #13

   Hello to all!

   I really wasn't planning to post again in the FWW forum, however...

   In my experience, the hidden nut in the inside of the rail is stationary.  It does not/is not turned.  The lengthy bolt passes through the post, the tenon, and into the rail, and is tightened within it's counterbore using a socket wrench from outside the frame.  The clearance hole is covered with a decorative, pivoting plate, which you do not buy from Woodcraft Supply at ten times the usual price!  Shop around.  Also, do not waste your good money on specialty bed bolts, with the miniscule head and the matching wrench.  For the price of one specialty bolt, you can instead buy four 5/16" x 7" or 8" hex head bolts with square nuts, and size the clearance hole to suit the matching mechanic's socket.  Generally, a quality USA made heat treated socket will have thinner walls and require a smaller clearance hole than the imported Asian copy.  Size it for the larger, as you never know who has to take it apart.  The counterbore for the nut should have the bearing surface chiseled flat to distribute the force across a large area, perpendicular to the force.  Due to the wedging action of the circular shape, the circle-nut mentioned in another post has the bad habit of trying to spread/split the bedrail if overtightened.  I've seen this on some commercial furniture.

   Good luck with this conventional construction,

   John in middle Tennessee

5. 
   TomMGTC | Mar 14, 2003 04:53am | #14

   I prefer to use specialty bed bolt hardware, especially if it is for a client. It looks more professional and the cost is minimal in the overall scheme of things. Tom

3. 
   Shaker | Feb 28, 2003 12:28am | #12

   Hey Kevin,

   You get to go to the head of the class. I guess all newbies want to biuld the indestructable bed that kids down the hall can't hear.

   I can't see how two bolts would do any harm. I give it a wirl and see.

   Shaker

4. 
   Kell | Feb 27, 2003 12:41am | #5

   shaker,

   If you use mortise and tenon joinery with a good fit and the tenon doesn't bottom out in the mortise, one bed bolt in the middle will hold it just fine.  My experience has been, having made about a half dozen beds over the years, that this joint won't rack if pulled tight by the single bolt.  It also won't squeak or groan provided you make the tenon at least as long as 3/4 the thickness of the end post.  In this case, length, girth and fit all matter.

   Good luck,

   Kell