Replies

1. 
   Eef | Jan 14, 2010 04:27pm | #1

   hi phil,

   in the early days getting a very simple rabbeted box made was high achievement for me. much about basic cabinetry is common to how boxes are joined and assembled. there's much good literature on line and in books. don't know about others, but taking the occasional class is most helpful. what sorts of cabinets are you looking to make?

   eef

1. 
   PSM | Jan 14, 2010 04:42pm | #2

   Due to a garage reorganization effort, I need to get the cabinets done fairly promptly, so not sure a class is doable. Will check...the local store does have classes.

   I will look some more on cabinet construction on-line. Wish the Taunton educational series of videos had one on making a basic cabinet.

   The cabinets I need are for the garage and will be hung from the rafters, and sit against a wall. Nothing fancy at all, just about 30" wide, 24 - 30" tall, and maybe 18" deep. Two shelves, but I can use pin holes to adjust shelves or cut a dado for a fixed shelf. Just not sure about how to construct the box. Two cabinet doors on external hinges.

   - Phil

   Is the rabbet w/screws and glue the best option for a cabinet? Screws vertical or horizontal into the rabbet joint?

1. 
   JeffHeath | Jan 14, 2010 05:02pm | #3

   Your best bet is to build them out of plywood. You'll want to investigate simple carcass construction. The back, top, and bottom should be housed in rabbets along the top, bottom, and rear edges of both sides. If you want the bottom shelf 4" to 6" off the ground, then house the bottom shelf in a dado. The adjustable shelf pins are a good idea, and are easy to make. Make sure the front holes are level to the rear holes, or your shelves will rock. You can make the rabbets and dado with your router, a straight edge guide, and the proper bits. Go slow, and go 1/4" deep, using two passes.

   You should be able to pick up a half way decent book on carcass construction, as it is a pretty basic and simple task. Once you have the first one done, you'll know what I mean.

   I would recommend a 2" solid wood face frame, and you can build simple cabinet doors with a router bit set. It's hard to cover all in one post, so I'll wait until you ask more questions. If you get stuck, or are unsure, just ask. There are several here who can help you.

   Jeff

2. 
   DonStephan | Jan 14, 2010 09:13pm | #6

   If the cabinets are only attached through the top, into ceiling rafters, there'll be a lot of weight on just a few joints. Glue might be important in that case.

   The typical cabinet, if using say 3/4" sheet stock for the sides, top and bottom; and 1/2: sheet stock for the back:

   - 3/4" wide x 3/8" deep rabbet at top and bottom of sides where they meet the top and bottom

   - 1/2" wide by 3/8" deep rabbet along back edge of sides, top and bottom to receive back (kitchen cabinets may have the rabbet to receive the back 5/8" or even 3/4" wide by 3/8" deep, so back recessed slightly in case of high spots on wall).

   When cabinet screwed through back into wall, entire perimeter of back is glue line supporting weight of cabinet and contents, plus friction of cabinet against the wall. Can a cleat be attached to the wall flush against bottoms of cabinets, to help carry the weight?

   Just a thought.

1. 
   PSM | Jan 14, 2010 10:13pm | #7

   Don,

   I like your suggestions. Quite helpful, as are others here. Given the weight from the rafters, I can screw to wall as well, and a cleat can definitely be used (I like that idea).

   I am not sure I fully understand mounting the back. Rabbet along all two sides, top, and bottom, but cut far enough in so sides, top, and bottom sit a bit proud of the back. Screw through the back of the cabinet pull cabinet to wall, until sides, top, and bottom hit. Back may not be flat against wall, but this is OK since wall may not be flat, but all edges of cabinet are tight against wall. Correct?

   - Phil

1. 
   DonStephan | Jan 15, 2010 09:03pm | #13

   You hit the head right on the nail with your analysis.

2. 
   Westchester | Jan 14, 2010 05:53pm | #4

   you could just cut all the pieces to size and attach with nails or screws. Nothing wrong with working your way up from there to the more traditional joinery described by the other cabinet makers posting here - plywood is fine - you can purchase wood tape for the edges - iron on type -

   SA

3. 
   RalphBarker | Jan 14, 2010 06:22pm | #5

   My materials preference would also be plywood - either shop-grade with exterior glue, or pre-finished, depending on budget and how fancy you want to be.

   For plans and instructions, take a look at the Kitchen Project at The New Yankee Workshop, parts of which you might have seen on TV. Not much difference between kitchen cabinets and shop cabinets in my opinion, other than materials selection and appearance.

   http://www.newyankee.com/byCategory.php?Kitchen%20Project

   A couple of things to be wary of in the garage, however, are walls and floor, both of which are more likely to be off plumb/level than in the kitchen. You'll likely need to make adjustments accordingly.

1. 
   PSM | Jan 14, 2010 10:14pm | #8

   Ralph,

   The newyankee link was very helpful...thank you. The tip on how far off the walls may be regarding plumb and level is good, and will be mindful of that.

2. 
   PSM | Jan 14, 2010 10:15pm | #9

   Duplicate.

4. 
   WillGeorge | Jan 14, 2010 11:14pm | #10

   Not for totaly unskilled but one of my daughters made one like this. Never made anything from wood before. It is not simple but most of the parts fit and it actually turned out very nice.

   http://www.minwax.com/projects/pdfs/2000_Storage_Cabinet.pdf

   The plan is a floor cabinet but is very useable on a wall. Just make it without the leg extensions. If you take your time and know how to do common joints, it is possible to do. My daughter was not sure how to turn on the tablesaw. I stood guard to stop her for safety issues but I gave her very little help otherwise. She was afraid of the router but got use to the noise and she used the router to make most of the joints. I did have to show her how to set up the tools to do a particular joint. I chose this plan because you said you wanted to use boards. The plan in the link uses boards and plywood.

   I do have to state, in my opinion, if you need to hurrry! Just go out and buy some cabinets and hang them. Sorry, when learning, or an expert, rushing things is not the way to safely work wood OR learn.

   You can find many free plans out on the net for basic woodworking projects. The joints are shown.. How to make them fit is the hard part.

   Good luck and please do NOT rush your 'first real job'...

   Even purchasing a cabinet and looking at how it was made may give you ideas. The cabinet in the link is NOT a simple task to do. However, if you take your time and practice on scrap wood to make and fit the joints used.. You may suprise yourself on the outcome. I have been working with wood since a young child making stuff from orange crates and nails and I still, on occasion, make mistakes.. Usually when I got in a hurry!

   And see:

   http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/resources/index.php?cat=102

   For just cabinets:

   http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/resources/index.php?cat=417

1. 
   PSM | Jan 15, 2010 05:01pm | #11

   I believe I pretty much know how I will construct the cabinets themselves. The doors are another matter. The front edges of the cabinet will be 3/4" plywood. I could use iron on edging or install facing. I like the facing better, but how does one attach this to plywood. I do not have a biscuit joiner, but if really required, will get. Can I screw the facing into the edge of plywood? For a garage cabinet, exposed screw are not a big deal, but if the fastening is done in an invisible way, so much the better. A solid door is fine...is sheet stock with iron-on edging the best way, or...?

   Thanks.

   - Phil

1. 
   Westchester | Jan 15, 2010 05:15pm | #12

   if you use facing you can nail and glue it on.

   a 4 penny nail is a tiny hole to fill and hide.

   Don't buy a biscuit joiner - not worth the cost to you right now,

   SA

2. 
   DonStephan | Jan 15, 2010 09:07pm | #14

   Iron on edging can last for years, but especially in unheated environment it can start to fail in 5-6 years. Not sure if that timeline is a problem. Also, it can catch and tear/pull loose if not relived just below edges of plywood. I only use it for my own workshop applications, not for customers. Many however are successful with it.

   There's been several people in the last year who have found that big box plywood not really flat and uniform thickness. The problems may be less noticeable with full overlay doors rather than full inset.

3. 
   RalphBarker | Jan 18, 2010 07:59pm | #15

   Installing biscuits into the edges of the cabinet and cutting a corresponding full-length slot into the back side of the face frame is just a quick/easy way to align things. The biscuits don't add any real strength - it's the glue surface between the face frame and cabinet edge that does the work.

   I'd suggest that the choice for doors is partly a matter of where you muy the materials. I wouldn't, for example, make doors out of just "big-box" plywood, since it's almost guaranteed to warp. Real Baltic birch ply, or cabinet-grade ply would be another matter, since both are well-made and stable. I wouldn't worry about edging the doors. a Simple round-over and a bit of edge filling should be fine. (Note that neither real Baltic birch ply nor cabinet-grade will have edge voids like construction-grade ply.

   Another approach, however, would be to use the shop cabinets as a skill-building opportunity. You might, for example, try your hand at making rail/stile (cope/stick) doors with center panels, either flat or raised. Once you have the basic cabinets built, and the face frames attached, you can always mount them and add the doors later.

1. 
   PSM | Jan 27, 2010 01:49am | #16

   Couple of other questions before I build my first woodworking anything (garage cabinets). Plywood was recommended. At the local Home Depot, what grade am I looking for? Do I really need 3/4" for the carcass and shelves. Cabinet width is expected to be 30" or so.

   - Phil

1. 
   RalphBarker | Jan 27, 2010 10:06am | #17

   For something that is intended to be relatively permanent, I'd avoid the "imported" ply at home centers, and buy domestic plywood from a reputable lumber dealer. If home-center ply isn't already warped at the store, it may well be by the time you get it home or put it to use.

   I might even order pre-finished cabinet-grade from such a dealer. While you might get by with 1/2", I'd go for 3/4", so there is something left after cutting rabbets and dados for joinery. Considering the weight that may be placed on the shelves, I'd also design the cabinets such that the 30" overall width of shelves is supported in the center - e.g. a stile in the middle where the two doors meet.

2. 
   Eef | Jan 28, 2010 11:48am | #22

   ralph,

   very good advice. avoid the imported plywood from the big box places. i had many years experience by the time that crap showed on the market. the first stuff i used was the doug fir-like looking stuff. did all the ripping to width on day one, ready to crosscut day two. all of my 23 1/4"x8' lengths were warped beyond belief which made the crosscutting operation difficult and quite dangerous. of course the trouble we had assembling was the worst thing about my money-saving venture. all that AND my partner was pissed at me.

   eef

5. 
   bduffin104 | Jan 27, 2010 11:29pm | #18

   That'll teach ya, asking a
   That'll teach ya, asking a bunch of cabinetmakers a cabinetmaking question.

   Best advice for beginner: use plywood, keep it simple.

6. 
   4runner | Jan 28, 2010 09:00am | #19

   I have spent time at Marc Adams School of wood working in Indanapolis, learning cabinet construction. During the last class I was introduced to the Sommerfeld method of construction, which is very good I like a lot of his ideas. Then I read the book buy Udo Schmidt, who also taught at Marc Adams, more good ideas. Also I was taught during one class about pockethole joinery, and purchased several dvds from Kreg tools. (There is some affiliation between Sommerfeld and Kreg, I haven't figured it out YET.) Sommerfeld has a great video on building cabinets. I recently did all the cabinets in a brand new house, kitchen, bath, etc. and I used ideas from all of them. The basic construction was with pockethole joinery. Extremely fast and incredibly strong. So for $20.-$30. you can be a really good cabinet maker with just a router and a saw. I hope this helps. Get back if you haave any questions

1. 
   oldusty | Jan 28, 2010 10:10am | #21

   4,

   It is apparent that you have not learned everything about what it takes to be a " really good cabinetmaker " if that is your true perception .

   last week I couldn't spell cabinetmakor now I are one .

   regards dusty

1. 
   sapwood | Jan 28, 2010 09:59pm | #23

   I think that 4Runner's point
   I think that 4Runner's point was that one doesn't have to get all tied up into knots about the joinery on built-in/fastened-to-the-wall cabinets. Pocket hole joinery is plenty adequate. Actually, for my money, it's overkill. I simply gun nail the plywood together with glue... butt joints. The greatest stress the boxes will ever see is in the shop or during installation. If a joint gets over-stressed, it can easily be made well by the maker. It's just so simple.

   Now the "show" parts of cabinets are another matter. That's where one's time should be focused. And to be a "really good cabinetmaker" one does need to learn how to put on a good show. And that's not easy... as you well know.

7. 
   4runner | Jan 28, 2010 09:00am | #20

   I have spent time at Marc Adams School of wood working in Indanapolis, learning cabinet construction. During the last class I was introduced to the Sommerfeld method of construction, which is very good I like a lot of his ideas. Then I read the book buy Udo Schmidt, who also taught at Marc Adams, more good ideas. Also I was taught during one class about pockethole joinery, and purchased several dvds from Kreg tools. (There is some affiliation between Sommerfeld and Kreg, I haven't figured it out YET.) Sommerfeld has a great video on building cabinets. I recently did all the cabinets in a brand new house, kitchen, bath, etc. and I used ideas from all of them. The basic construction was with pockethole joinery. Extremely fast and incredibly strong. So for $20.-$30. you can be a really good cabinet maker with just a router and a saw. I hope this helps. Get back if you haave any questions