I’ve been buying 4/4 lumber and finishing down to dimension and for drawers that leads to some significant dust on the floor from the planner. I am looking to buy a bandsaw for the primary purpose of resawing thicker stock to curb the waste. I’ve looked at grizzly and read the reviews in fww. I’d love to have the Laguna from the reviews I’ve read but that’s a lot of dough. I am not experienced with bandsaws. I’ve got a little 9″ but only used it for crafts. I’ve read about allowing for drift and adjusting and tuning. I need a saw that will cut good with minimal tweaking. I’m willing to pay for that privilege. Are there good saws that can do that for less than the Laguna, or is that price range a given for that ease, and to go cheaper will mean tweaking is something I’m going to just have to get comfortable with? Thoughts are appreciated.
Replies
bones,
I finally bought a BS this past Jan. after thinking about it and reading for over a year. The good news is it's much easier to operate than I thought it would be especially when resawing. The Min-Max, Laguna, etc. are in a completely different league from the 14" made by Grizzly, Delta, Jet, etc....and the cost is too. If I was resawing every day veneers, draws, etc. then perhaps I could justify a big saw. My 14" is more than adequate for the 2-3 times a week I resaw...and I'd keep it even if I eventually buy a big saw..
What did you finally decide on?
Bones,
I bought the Delta 28-206 14"...which had a double sale on from Delta and Rockler...reducing its price to $409. Until I got wind of the sale I was going Grizzly 14".
I wanted to buy locally so I could have support with the problems I was anticipating. The sale was very timely and, so far, I have not needed any support....everything has worked well.
The only thing that has buged me is the price Delta wants for the riser block. I've decided to try the saw for a while without the additional cutting capacity. ...again, so far so good
Thats an incredible price. If I could inquire with a few more questions, I would be interested with:
What type of resawing do you do i.e. 6" tall boards or greater.
Have you done veneer cuts with the Delta.
Did you have to tweak it a lot to get the good reliable resaw cuts
Finally, do you use steel blades or do you invest in the carbide blades
Experience is the best guide, so I like to pick the brains of the others who have gone there. Appreciate the help.
Edited 5/12/2004 9:15 am ET by bones
Bones,
Let me tell you where I am on my learning curve with the BS. I have not installed the riser block so my resawing is limited to 6" about....and that has gone very well with little tweaking....I use the timberwolf blades. An important issue is the fense. I recycled my fense from my old table top saw which works very well....a hunk of wood and clamps would work too.
I have tried to cut veneers and that has worked. The bigger issue is putting it through the planer and not having it blow apart....so I make a couple of extra pieces and use a technique Sgain suggested ....piece of melamine with a cleat on the base of the planer.
I use only lumber in the rough, and so resawing is common. I also like to bookmatch, etc. I had the 14" Delta for years, and it was totally inadequate to the task of accurate and fast resawing. Plus, dust collection is a joke, and resawing produces a lot of dust.
Finally got the Agazzani, 20" (would have gotten larger but basement ceiling height did not permit). I hate to buy things twice. I had the Delta for 20+ years, and at the end put a bunch of money into it, all without any good result. By the time I made the decision I had an extra $300 or so into it, with the riser block, new blades, the Iturra spring, link belt, big Baldor. All wasted. But, it is nice to have a smaller saw for scrolling as leaving the big guy set up for resawing is nice and efficient. Good tools are not inexpensive, and that is just the way it is, unless you get lucky and score a Bedrock at a yard sale or something like that. I can't comment on the lower priced saws as I have no experience.
Alan
Alan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Bones,
What is your price range? I bought the new Mini-max S16, (which is the old Laguna 16). It is made by Meber. It is in the $1200 price range and is an excellent saw. If you want more information on this saw, let me know and I will go into more detail.
Don
Thanks for the note. I am willing to go the range you mentioned, but like all tools I try for the best bang for the buck. I know you get what you pay for. If I can get a medium of the road tool at a third of the price that can do the job then good, that's the path to go (exaggeration for example only). I would add though, that for me, I do not want to spend countless hours tweaking and adjusting things to get the quality cut. Let me also clarify that I do not do this for a living. I am a hobbyist that is trying to get back into this and maximize wood utilization. The fact that it could cut all day long in a production shop is not important (to me). I went to the laguna web site and read a lot of comments from their users and was impressed. I also have been looking at the grizzly as well.
Then the recent review of bandsaws in FWW gave a decent review of the Rikon. It was given a "good" under the resaw category. Overall it was the best value. To be honest though I am scared to take a chance on an unknown like Rikon. I also remember years ago someone saying the same thing about Grizzly and now they are an acceptable quality choice. So basically I'm in quandary land and will have to make a decision. This is why I love this site, for the valuable feedback that it provides.
Edited 5/12/2004 3:33 pm ET by bones
I have just bought a 17" Grizzly BS, with 12" resaw capacity and a 2hp motor. I run it from 220v. The first project was resawing logs, right up to 12", from an Almond Orchard. Some of these weighed up to 300lbs, so I first had to split them with a chain saw. Using a 1" carbon blade, I got pretty good resaw results, plenty power and the quality of the machine is fine.
Reason for going to Grizzly, is because of the price and the service.
After all, a bandsaw is a pretty simple piece of equipment, from an Engineering point of view, to get this wrong, will be really bad. It is hard to understand though how they get their prices so low, with oversees freight etc. The equipment is sound and well built.
So far I have no complaints.
Willie
I had a little 9" Delta before and returned it after the first week. Wheels were not balanced, guides were not aligned with frame, motor was too weak. If Delta put just a little more Engineering Quality management into their system, this could have been a pretty neat little machine.
Thanks You are definately pushing some big stuff through. I was looking at the Grizzly. I definately like the price. When you were looking did you consider other brands?
You are just the one I want to talk to. I'm just about sold on the 17" over the 14". I was looking at some reviews on amazon and a few had some negative comments about plastic tensioning wheels. Is that true? Other that that and a problem with a table that was not flat, it received good reviews. Can you comment about your thoughs on it's details?
Bones,
17" Grizzly Bandsaw
The tensioning wheel is solid and the whole tensioning mechanism works well. I have used 1" carbon blades for resawing, this being where you need a strong frame with no deflection. I can adjust to maximum tension with ease.
I did a Masters in Mechanical Engineering and worked as an Engineer up to the late 80's, doing a lot of machine design, testing etc. So, when I looked at a bandsaw brand name was not important to me. The design of a bandsaw is very simple, so what remains is quality of manufacture, alignment and making sure that the fundamental components are sound. The 17" and 19" Grizzly machines are both well built and should last for a lifetime if used and maintained properly.
I assembled mine out of the box, with fair instructions and then checked the alignment of the wheels very carefully, also checked the alignment of the guide structure and everything was good enough, I made no adjustments. The Euro roller discs work well as blade guides, this being the best system in my opinion. I do suggest you connect this machine to 220v though, if you can.
Compared to the expensive professional band saw, at twice the price, the only real noticeable difference is the size of the table and the trunnion, used to tilt the table at an angle. Even for professional shop use though, I believe the trunnion is good enough. If you had to adjust table angles all day long, five days a week, the drive gear will probably eventually start slipping.
If I look at currency movements and current prices of steel, I believe you would sell this machine in a couple of years from now, for more than what you have paid.
Looking at the components and designs, it appears as if all these machines originate from the same places Far East, this being said, the best deal is where you have a large company here in the US, who can afford Quality Control Engineers and solid customer service staff. Grizzly seems to be the leader of the pack here by a long shot.
Regarding tables which warp, a 17" table is not very big, so warping is unlikely. Mine is straight. I think these castings all originate from the same place though, so again, if it twists a little, your best deal is the big supplier who can rectify this quickly. Castings from the China and Taiwan for these machines are not always stress relieved properly, but they all come from the same place.
Hope this helps, but I believe I got a $1400 bandsaw for $750 and it was a very good investment.
Willie
PS. If you buy a 14", you will always want the bigger machine.
Thanks so much for providing such a detailed response. I'm sold. I'll be placing the order for the 17". Since I do not anticipate making a lot of angle cuts from the band saw and my use is non production I don't think the table will be an issue. It seems (from the comments I've read), that they support what they sell. You mentioned making sure every thing was aligned. Did you use the recommended procedure from the mfg or your own. Secondly, which blade would you recommend. You mentioned a blade but not a brand. I have had a lot of folks mention Timberwolfe. The site has an informative article called six rules of sawing. Thoughts?
Edited 5/14/2004 3:59 pm ET by bones
Hello,
no matter what size bandsaw you purchase, consider learning how to solder blades together. The kit to do this is usually less than $20.00. I have bought several different sizes of blades in rolls of 100 feet on ebay for not too much money. I have more blades than I will use as a hobby WW in the next several years. I also found a couple of carbide tipped blades for around $40.00. One of these was for a much larger bandsaw and had enough to use for a blade for my Laguna LT16 and my 14" clone. A big saw is a lot of fun. You can start cutting up the stumps you have been saving.
Chuck
Hi, Chuck! Have you had any trouble running a one-inch carbide blade on your LT-16? I finally gave up because it wouldn't track right and kept banging against the front guard. The Laguna 3/4 inch carbide runs OK, however. Just wondering. Also, where can you get carbide blades for $40 -- also on eBay? If so, under what heading?
Hello,
the carbide blades I have run on my Laguna LT16 have been 1/2". I also have a 1" carbide in 133" that I haven't cut down to 130" yet. I hope it tracks well when I get around to using it. It isa Lennox. I bought the blades on ebay under the bandsaw heading about 2+ years ago. I can't afford to buy much on ebay lately and haven't looked at what they offer. Almost every time I have looked in the last couple of months, there has been a large (20"+) bandsaw for sale under $1000. I plan to get busy with my bandsaw this summer as I am between semesters at school. I have a bunch of stuff planned, hope I get half of it done.
Chuck
I spent a lot of time (3 plus weeks) daily looking at E-bay and could not find a used one. Saw lots of new delta 14's.
Edited 5/16/2004 10:00 pm ET by bones
Hello,
I did a quick check on ebay and found a couple of interesting items:
3815420521 Powermatic M81 20" $202.50
3815037281 Tannweitz 24" $1250
3816117775 Inca 20" $650.00
3815770902 Yates 36" $1600.00
3816323425 Rogers $700.00
3815866934 Laguna Model 400 $250.00
3816326288 Powermatic M87 $500.00
316173470 100' of 1/2" X 4tpi $24.50
Not all are 20" and not all are under $1000 but they look interesting.
Chuck
Wow talk about timing. I did find a few but due to location to me, shipping was prohibitive or they indicated pick up only. That's what I meant by could not find any. There is another good site for used tools. It's irsauctions. They sell equipment from liquidated furniture companies and other industrail sources. Most of the stuff is 3 phase though. I hope to find a used unisaw that way.
That Laguna you mentioned is withing driving distance, but I called Grizzley to see if I could stop the order and take a chance at bidding (4 days left so I bet it goes up), but they indicated that it had shipped. So, I will take my Grizzly and be happy(I hope).
Edited 5/17/2004 10:43 am ET by bones
You might feel better if you do a "Completed Items" search for the Laguna (or other comparable saws). My guess is they go pretty high. Lots of folk (who, me???) snipe their auctions at the last minute, so looking at bidding even a day ahead of ending doesn't tell you much.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks, Chuck -- I'll check it out. The only thing I've used my carbide blades for is cutting into logs or "billets" for turning on the lathe as they leave a pretty rough surface. Rest of the time I'm using Timberwolf blades and pretty happy with them in several sizes. Thanks for your reply -- and good luck in school!
Thanks for the good wishes in school. I pulled a 3.75/4.00 for the semester with a 3.50 overall. I got a B in CAD.
Chuck
"...and current prices of steel, I believe you would sell this machine in a couple of years from now, for more than what you have paid." Brings to mind that in Grizzly's summer catalog, they have a big note that prices will be going up at the end of the year due to rising steel prices.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Well I Did it. Called this morning after sleeping on it last night. I ordered the Grizzly 17"HD. Deep down I knew if I would forever second guess myself if I did not go the extra 340 for the bigger model.
Thanks so much to those of you, with experience. that helped me make an informed decision. They said It would ship monday and I should have it by Thursday or Friday. Now my only problem is getting the behemoth off the truck and to my garage. I hope for an additional fee the will deliver with a truck with a hydraulic tail gate.
Bones,
Congratulations! I'm sure you'll be happy. I especially like the fact that its ISO 9000, I think that helps too.
I suspect the box will be tall and the hydraulic lift could be a waste of money (IMHO). If the box is tall, it would be very easy to lay down, slide half off the end, tip up and stand on the ground....or slide down a couple of boards and stand up. Either way, I suspect you'll be on here Friday night talking up a storm about what a great machine it is....lol
BG is right, the box should be tall. As long as you don't drop it, you should be fine. I'd not be surprised if the driver offered to team up and carry it into the shop with you. If you can set it on a worktable, you'll be in business.
I unpacked and assembled my 14" all by my se'f, using some principles stored in genetic memory from the pyramid ages, I'm sure.
Congrats!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks for the feedback. It will definitely be a trip. I once ordered a cast iron stove and it arrived on the back of a tractor trailer. I back up to the rear of the trailer with my blazer and used two 2x12's from the back of the trailer to the tailgate of the blazer. Then repeated the same process from the tailgate to the ground. I suppose I can try that. I went to my local wood craft today and bought a shopfox mobile base. I plan on putting it together and de-crating it directly onto the base and wheel it into the garage for final assemble. At least that sounds like a good plan. I'll let you know how it goes. Now I need to put a 220 circuit in the shop. It say's it is 20A at 110 and 10A at 220. I've always been told that machinery does better at 220 than 110. But that's a topic for another thread.
Edited 5/15/2004 6:13 pm ET by bones
Bones, you really don't need a whole thread on the 220 vs. 110. At 20 amps (110), you be right at the very max of your circuit breaker (assuming it's 20 amps, not 15). Not an acceptable situation -- you need some room, so to speak, for when you push the motor sawing hard/thick wood. Besides that, you have a grand total of amps (available from the shop panel) that are available for your machinery. It's to your advantage to subtract only 10 amps for the bandsaw, rather than 20 -- leaves more for lights and perhaps a dust collector, anything else you might be running simultaneously with the bandsaw.
Have fun with the assembly :-) !forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I was kidding about the new thread, and you are right about the limit. My dad always told me that I should run it on 220 if I could. I have a Seko dust collection system that is 12 amps at 220 so I will run a second 220 circuit in the garage for it (the new Grizzly). I have a relatively new house and believe it or not the wiring is all 14 gauge wiring (15 amps max). When I first removed the panel to change out a 15a that kept tripping for a 20, I discovered the wire was not 12. I contacted my building inspector and sure enough 14 is code around here as long as it's only on 15a breakers. Go figure? I've got a new clean slate of a garage that I am reclaiming from the unsightly duty of housing automobiles. I plan on running plenty of outlets above a new bench I plan on building.
Edited 5/16/2004 9:46 pm ET by bones
Edited 5/16/2004 9:53 pm ET by bones
Edited 5/16/2004 9:54 pm ET by bones
Bones,
Don't know what happens where you live, but mine was delivered by Fedex Freight, formerly Viking trucking, the truck had a lift gate and the driver used a push trolley to offload the pallet inside my garage.
Congratulations, you will enjoy this machine.
You had a previous question about blades. There is a good article in April Fine Woodworking about bandsaw blades.
Personally, for anything which does not require precision work (most bandsaw cutting) I have joined the throw away society and use the cheapest carbon blades, such as those from Grizzly. At around $10 upwards, they do a good enough job. When I resaw veneer and want precision, I use Lenox carbide tipped blades. This gets expensive though, although I have not replaced any of these blades yet.
Willie
I have the "old" Laguna 16 HD, made by Meber (Italy). It is, by far, the best power tool I own. It's solid, no vibration at all, it barely even makes a sound when running. I love everything about it, EXCEPT the blade guard, which obscures my view of the cut and is a PITA when changing blades. The new models all have much better guards.
I didn't know that MM was now carrying the Mebers. Maybe they have a replacement guard? Laguna couldn't help me there. Otherwise Laguna is a great company, good service and good products.
I'm sure you can get a good bandsaw for less, but I think it would be hard to get a better saw for the same money as a Laguna."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
Bones,
All bandsaws require regular adjustment and some one time only tuning up when they are first assembled, there is no way to avoid it. To make life easy, you need to learn how to do these things quickly and efficiently. A good quality cast iron 14 inch bandsaw is no harder or easier to adjust than a European 16 or 20 inch saw.
A larger saw with several horsepower will sometimes cut even if it isn't tuned up properly, but to get the best cuts, all bandsaws need to be tuned and set up correctly.
I regularly do precise 11 inch wide resawing on a 14 inch cast iron frame Ridgid (Taiwanese made) bandsaw with a riser block.
John W.
I recently picked up a used Delta 20" bandsaw for $850. It needed tires, but apart from that, it works fine. I buy used industrial equipment whenever I can, and only upgrade when a really good buy comes along.
The saw is about 25 years old, and short enough to go through standard doorways, and light enough (several hundred pounds) that I can move it with a good appliance dolly, heavy enough that I'll never have to worry about it moving when I'm using it....
Michael R.
BG's point about the riser kit is important. I'd suggest definitely get it right at the beginning before you start sinking money into blades. I have an older Grizzly 14" (1019Z) and really wish I'd gotten the resaw kit at the time of purchase.
Grizzly consistently gets way-above-average marks for resawing in terms of power and ability to eat through stock quickly. The "tweaking" that has been necessary on my 1019 has been on the blade guides -- they have to be re-adjusted quite a bit when changing from low clearance to high clearance. They may have improved this in their new saw.
The big key to resaw success is getting the right blades. Definitely pass on the stock blade that comes with your saw. Buy something like Timberwolf blades ( http://www.suffolkmachinery.com ), Woodslicer or a pro blade from Lennox. The difference is phenomenal.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Edited 5/13/2004 11:20 am ET by forestgirl
I bought the Grizzly GO 555 14" "Ultimate Bandsaw" w/ riser block.
Added a Timberwolf blade. (1/2" 6 tpi)
This is one slick machine that does it all.
Get one. You will not regret it.
Well I'm ready to order but I'm stuck on two models. The 60513 17" & G0555 ultimate 14 with riser block. There are trade offs.
Cost of the 14 with riser block and sf hd base delivered is 561.35
Cost of the 17 sf hd base delivered is 901.40
Trade offs for the 17 .vs. 14 is
2 .vs 1 hp
17" .vs. 14" top
100 more fpm for the 17" on both speeds
1" .vs. 3/4 blade width
Given the choice, do you think the $340.00 is worth it to go to the 17" or can the 14" cut it. (pardon the pun)
I'd go for the 17 in a heartbeat.Tom
Douglasville, GA
I think the 17 is probably worth the extra $340, as long as you can afford it and if you think you will be doing woodworking for a long time. Hardly anybody ends up wishing they had bought a smaller bandsaw! "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
When I bought my GO555 I faced the exact same dilemma.. do I go with the 14" (with riser block) or the 17"?
I called and put this question to one of the Grizzly techs who, by the way, are excellent before, during and after your purchase.
He told me that when it came to the same decision.. he went with the 14 w/riser. He also said that the GO555 is what is mostly used by all the Grizzly techs.
I admit that this what I wanted to hear.. because of the price.. but I was prepared to go with the 17" if he recommened it over the 555.
Bill
To answer that question (14" vs. 17" with the different motors, etc.) you need (IMO) to think about what type of resawing you'd be doing down the road. That 2 HP motor will really help if you're going to resaw alot of hardwood that's wider than, say, 6". Or, if you might be turning logs into boards. A 2HP motor will make the tasks go much more quickly.
There are other features to that 17" that look pretty attractive too. The quick-change blade release is major plus, as are the roller guides. If you can afford it, you'd not regret the 17" choice. I'd not sweat the 1" vs. 3/4" blade though.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
It's $340 you can afford to spend? must be 'cause your selection has come down to these two saws.
IMO it's a no-brainer. get the 17", in a year you wont even remember the price difference and you'll have a saw good for a life-time.
I have the G0555 with riser block and like it very much - it is an outstanding value. Recommend getting the riser block on day 1, and use of Timberwolf blades.
Do not count on using it with a 3/4 inch blade. I have had good luck resawing with a 1/2 inch blade, but several people have suggested that the 3/4 inch blade (which does fit on the saw) requires so much tension that it may strain the bearings or pull the saw out of alignment, perhaps leading to poorer performance.
The smaller saws can resaw wood as thick as the bigger saws, but if you only have half the power, you can only go half as fast. Resawing a wide board on a 14 inch bandsaw is a slow process, if you want a smooth cut. Although I haven't used a bigger bandsaw, I have seem people saw MUCH faster with the big saw.
I had the 9 inch Delta, and got rid of it - never could get a good cut with it, even when set up by experts.
I had the 14 inch Jet, and got rid of it. I discovered that the Grizzly was made from the same castings, but had better dust collection, better guides, better motor, and far lower cost.
I like my Grizzly G0555, and expect it will be everything I need, at least until I can retire from a day job to "full time" woodworking. ________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
I bought a 14 inch Jet with the riser. (don't forget the riser whatever brand you buy), it's been excellant and I've done some really heavy resawing with it.
However I bought it before I found out about Grizzley. Today I'd buy a Grizzley! For what I paid for the 14 inch Jet I could have bought a 17 inch Grizzley!
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