I am new to using bandsaws, I just bought a Jet 18 inch. The blade that came with it was a 3/4, I dont know the teeth per inch. I read, and was told, to throw the blade away after practicing with it for a while because it was cheap and would not give me nice cuts. I was actually quite impressed with my ability to resaw and the results it gave me were quite satisfactory. The place where i bought it makes their own blades, I bought a 1 1/4 inch 4 TPI blade for resawing. The results are poor. After resawing the surface almost looks like unfinished lumber, but not quite that bad. The blade seems to have wobble side to side as it is rotating. It is not moving on the wheel as near as I can tell. Also the finished cut surface is very rough. I voiced my concern about this possibility when I bought it and was told that fewer teeth per inch would result in a nicer cut due to more efficient clearing of sawdust. The resulting roughness is worse on soft wood than hardwood. Fast vs. Slow feeding made no difference.
Any ideas? I have tried setting the blade tension at max and at reccomended with no difference.
Could this be a bad blade. Improper tension. Operator error.
Thanks in advance.
Replies
What are your expectations for smooth resaw cuts?
I have a 14" Jet with a 1", 3 tpi resaw blade that gives me nice, uniform, slices - but they ain't "smooth". - lol
Usually, you resaw slices thicker than your final thickness and plane (or sand) them down to what you need.
That is a good question!!!! I guess I dont quite know what to expect. As I was showing some one at work they pointed out that it looks more like gouges as opposed to just being rough. I can see the lines where the teeth have been. I am goning to show the results to the woodworking store today, I just want to be a little more educated before I go there and they say there is no problem. I would not be able to reasonably sand it smoth. Thanks for the reply
It is always difficult to describe these things in text, but it sounds like your expectations of smoothness may be too high. A board resawn on a bandsaw will look like, well, that it was resawn on a bandsaw. That is to say it will require surface planing, either by hand or on a planer/joiner to be reasonably smooth. If the cuts are overly rough or irregular, it may point to the blade guides not being properly set for the blade.
Sounds to me like a pretty normal resaw. Just for fun, check out some rough sawn lumber. I'm betting that it's surfaces will look pretty much like your resawn wood.A dirty little secret in the wood game is that dimensioned lumber is made from rough sawn boards. That piece of smooth 1 x 6 at the lumber yard was rough sawn to 1" thick and 6" wide, then milled to 3/4" thick x 5-1/2" wide.Now, you're probably wondering why a 3/4" x 5-1/2" piece of lumber is called a 1 x 6. They do that to confuse the rabble. - lol
Ralph, Sarge, Dave
Thank you for you quick and informative replies. I agree, my cuts look like rough sawn lumber, I guess I have been watching too much TV, everything that comes off their bandsaws looks good to go. I now remember that they always run it through the drum sander after resawing. I was not sure what my expectations should have been, I now realize they were too high. I'm glad I asked for help before going down there and throwing a fit. I will still go, but only to get a visual inspection to confirm what you all are telling me since I cant take pictures right now. Thanks again for your help.
Tony
One other thing you might be experiencing, no bandsaw blade I've ever gotten hasn't had a few gentle kinks in it, often near the weld. It's fairly easy to see if you rotate the blade by hand, you'll see a blip in the blade profile as the kink goes by. Usually a light push in the opposite direction, while the blade is under tension, will smooth out the blade and give you a slightly cleaner cut. Just a little less cleanup, slightly more useful stock.
I definately see 2 areas of my blade that do that, I will give them a small adjustment and see if that helps, thanks.
Tony
First and as Dave stated... lower your expectations. I have never seen a re-saw in 37 years I would take to the assembly table. And that includes carbide blades. Once that is said... I would not run more than a 3/4" blade on your 18" BS as I do. I re-sawed for years on a 14" with a 1/2" blade but moved to a 3/4" with the 18" as I have larger springs that can tension it.
But... regardless of how wide a blade your saw can mount... I always go a size or two lower as re-saw can be done with 1/2" blades as proven over the years by those that have done it and still do for that matter. And tension is important for band strength IMO. Depending on the blade more tension is required with the lowest being carbon.. silicon steel.. bi-metal.. carbide..... in that order.
And last but not least I would not use a 4 TPI to re-saw. I do use them to rip but I much prefer a 3 TPI on re-saw. And yep.. the cut will have to be dressed somewhat IMO so again as Dave stated... make allowances to re-saw thicker before taking the stock to the promised land as ready to finish..
Good luck...
Sarge..
Sarge, got time for a Q? I was re-sawing some 12" wide stock into veneers and was very perturbed at my results last night. I was aiming for 1/4" thickness (yes I realize this is thick to be considered a veneer) and was hoping to be able to maintain around a +- 1/16" on thickness to minimize stock waste and planing time. I have an 18" machine and i recently put on a set of Carter guides. I was using a 1/2"x4tpi blade (yup, I need to put on a 3/4" or 1" wide blade). I ended up ruining the last pieces of 4/4 boards that were 12" wide so then I had to join some narrower 4/4 pieces to make my veneers. What do you think is a reasonable +- target for re-sawing like this?
Brad
Nothing wrong with using a 1/2" band for resaw. You should be able to maintain much less than +/- 1/16". I'd be shooting for a 64th or less. Likely sources of problem:
- technique problem (not keeping workpiece tight to the fence)
- dull or poor quality band
- insufficient tension (no need to go nuts on it, just sufficient)
- Improperly adjusted guides
- fence not solid enough
- Band is vibrating (usually leaves a wavy or sawtooth pattern and makes a lot of noise. Cure is more/less tension or a different band)Another cause is too fine teeth, but you ruled that out already.Pete
Thanks for the tips. I knew I could do better. Pretty much a brand new blade (re-sawed about 300bdft of Cherry). I did see the blade wandering from time to time as the wood density varied. I will check the tension and go over the bearings again before trying again.
Brad
You must be a better man than me, Pete, 'cause when I tried resawing with a 1/2" blade, the results were u-g-l-y!! I saw waves like I hadn't seen since my last WestPac cruise in '71. A 3/4" blade didn't improve things much, so when I had to resaw some beech, I popped for a gen-u-wine 1", 3 tpi resaw blade and the change was amazing. I was slicing thru that beech like it was warm butter and holding a 3/16" track without having to try to "steer" the boards.Two quick "kiss" passes thru the planer, and I had beautiful pieces of 1/8" beech.
Sorry to get back so late but I have been in the shop all day and most of the evening. Looks like Pete B. pretty much covered you and I will agree with him on the 1/2 being sufficient. That's all I could use on a 14" saw for many years and the Woodslicer from Highland (3 TPI) served well as it has many.
I use a Lennox 3/4" at this point which requires much more tension than a 14" saw can handle. But not a problem on the 18" I purchased. I kept the 14" just to leave a 1/4" 6 TPI on just to do curves without changing blades. I used that 14" about 6 times just today and very glad I decided to keep it.
You many have a dull blade as my old Woodslicers did well but they would dull in a hurry. Re-saw of tall hardwood takes it's toll on thin blades used on BS's. If you were getting good cuts and suddenly you get banana cuts... I just change blades and it usually cures it as I keep the tension the same on my 18" as I don't have to swithch them with the 14".
Good luck and remember a bad cut could be many small things or a combination of several in Pete's list. Just be panicky as BS's are a bit finicky to dial in but once you do very versatile.
Sarge..
There was a two part article in F&C discussing bandsaw setup and tips.
Brad
Thanks for the reply, i'm new to this, or maybe I am just tired, F & C stands for what?
Thanks
Tony
F&C is is Furniture and Cabinet making published in the UK. It is a very good magazine. I can find it in the little town I live in Canada, so I am guessing you can find it too. I think Rich and the others have given you all the tips shown in the article I referred to.
Brad
Edited 9/7/2008 1:23 am ET by brad805
docrx,
The problems you have described are all symptoms of blade problems. There is no reason you can't get excellent results with a 1/2" blade. There is just one secret - the blade must be sharp. (duh!)
A new blade from any of the good manufacturers should give results far better than what you describe. You should be able to easily push the work into the blade, without forcing, and the blade should stay right in the middle of the kerf, without wandering side to side at all. Everyone has his or her own favorite blades and Timberwolf and Wood Slicer get mentioned a lot. But, as I said, any good blade, as long as it's new and sharp will do work far better than what you have been getting.
It goes without saying that a blade known to be dull is out of the running. But even a new blade can accidently get damaged, without it being obvious, to cause your problems. A single nicked tooth, or several in a row, or a range of teeth that have been even slightly bent from their proper set will cause all the problems you've described. Even a new blade can arrive with propblems. Such damage can happen by the blade being pushed against the throat plate, while running, or being mounted, even just for an instant. Once a blade is damaged, there's really nothing you can do to adequately correct it.
Proper adjustment is essential. And high blade tension is NOT the answer, it makes the problem worse. High tension is the mantra in most band saw books, but those who have discovered how to correctly set up a saw with the lowest proper tension for the blade being used enjoy the best results from their saws. And yes, fewer teeth per inch IS the answer. A 3 tpi blade WILL give the best results! On a properly set up band saw, the coarser the blade the smoother the cut. Every time, every kind of wood. Re-sawing or thin stock.
Get a back issue copy of FWW No. 173, Dec. 2004 and read Michael Fortune's article, "Five Tips for Better Band Sawing." That article is the best tutorial on setting up a band saw ever written, ANYwhere. Set up your saw as he recommends and you'll love your machine. And take his advice to get Starrett blades from BC Saw in Canada (http://www.bcsaw.com). At less than $10 a blade, you'll buy enough to always have a sharp blade on hand and not be tempted to keep a bad blade on the machine because changing is "too expensive." There's nothing worse in woodworking than not having a sharp tool and not being able to do anything about it.
Rich
Edited 9/6/2008 8:05 am ET by Rich14
Here's the link for the article:http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuidePDF.aspx?id=24093
Rich,
I see that it is now a blade problem, at first I thought no, but you are right, even a new blade can have problems. I do see a couple of areas on the blade that were a bit " twisted", I mistakenly assumed that more tension was needed, you are right, that made it worse. And what do I know, I know nothing about who made the blade, it could be junk for all I know. I did order a timberwolf 3 TPI in 3 sizes, the widest being 1 inch. I will give them a try and see what happens. I did try the 1/4 inch that I bought and actually got a beautiful resaw, no drift, no ridges, just very slow going--which I dont mind. Thanks for the advise. I have another question maybe you could answer for me. Guides--I followed the setup by positioning the guides approx 1/64 from both sides of the blade, top and bottom, and rear. Probably a very dumb question but here it goes. When sawing, resawing, etc, is it ok if the guides begin to roll, i.e. the blade touches them while cutting. I have read somewhere to set them even closer. I realize they are rollerbearings, and probably should not wear out or anything, but this is my new baby and I want to treat her right. Thanks for the help
Tony
tony,Download the article I mentioned and that Ralph gave the link to.You have to pay for it, but it will be the best few bucks you spent on this saw. It is must-have information for anyone who operates a band saw.I can't download it as I'm not an online member, so I don't know how well it comes up on screen or printed out. Most online PDFs are not prepared with enough resolution, in my opinion. FWW gets my money for the printed magazine. There is nothing like being able to read the printed page and look at the "pitchers."Yes, it's ok for the side wheel bearing guides to rotate during cutting. They actually should be set to just a few thousandths from the blade. You can do that with a feeler gauge or with "onion skin" or tracing paper as shown in the article. Most paper of the weight used in copy machines, printers, etc is about .004" - too thick.You're lucky that you had such a good (though fleeting) experience with that one blade. That tells you how well your machine really can perform. Most people never get to experience just how well a band saw can really cut because their equipment is not adjusted and the blade(s) they use are dull or just slightly damaged. The myths die hard. Properly adjusted, there is no drift, no side to side blade oscillation and re-saws come off the machine with amazing surface quality.Read the article, set up your machine, experience the results from sharp blades, and you'll be giving expert advice.Rich
I'll do just that!!! Thanks Rich
Tony
1/64" is too much clearance. The common guage for the blade to guide roller clearance is a dollar bill. Yes, the guides will turn as you make the cut. Back the guides off top and bottom before you start to adjust the guides and do the top set and then the bottom. The thrust bearings at the back of the blade should not touch the blade until you are cutting. Adjust them to clear the free running blade by a 1/32". I resaw with a 1/2" Woodslicer and get cuts that require only minor surfacing before use. I have a 14" Grizzly with riser block and can cut 1/32" thick veneer if I want that are uniform in thickness from top to bottom and end to end. Saw set up and a proper, sharp blade are the keys.
Hanf g in there, good cuts can be made with proper setup and patience!
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
The article Rich referenced says that a lot of people use a dollar bill looped around the blade to set the guide bearing clearance. That gives about .003" on either side of the blade. He suggests a cigarette paper instead, or a feeler gauge, to set the side clearance at .001"
Tony,
Glad to hear you are getting things together. My sister in law bought a Delta 14" rig form HD several years a go on my advice. She hated it. It would do nothing right. She sent it to the Delta service center. They said it was fine.
I finally took over a brand new Viking blade and viola the factory blade was stretched - would not tension. Now the saw works fine.Blades are cheap, so do not be afraid to change them out when you saw starts making strange cuts.Don.
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