I have a 14″ PM with a riser block. I have tried several versions to set this up correctly to resaw 10″ material. The blade alwasy skews so I have to feed to the left and the blade makes a bowed cut vertically. I have used several blades, 1/2″, 3/4″ 3 hook types for this. New or old, the same result. Move the tension from just past loose to the highest. Clean wheels, new rubber on them. Lubrication in cutting etc.
My question is the vertical alignment on the wheels. When I adjust the top wheel I can get the blade centered on the wheel. The bottom wheel however will be further forward than center.
Is this normal, or do I have a misaligned bottom wheel? Change the bottom rubber…. Ask for PM help…. any ideas will be welcome.
AZMO
Replies
If you are the same person who worked on the big bubinga table . . . Nice Work Man !
>Bowed cut:
As I under stand it what causes this is too much feed pressure and a blade with gullets that are jammed with swarf because the blade has too fine a teeth with gullets that are not big enough.
Need very coarse blade; three tooth per inch / skip tooth etc.
maybe feed slower.
> Blade further forward on bottom wheel:
Do you have the owner's manual for this saw? May see it on line I think. What do they recommend for this particular saw to bring wheels into alignment?
Perhaps shimming between one edge or another of the extension casting and the frame of the band saw to tilt the frame into better alignment. You can get shims that are tabs with a slot in them to fit around a bolt without pulling the bolt out. See various tool suppliers: MSC, Grangers, Cutting Edge etc.
May be able to put spacers on bottom wheel but could involve a bearing puller ( rent one ). May be a way to tilt bottom wheel I have not had one of these saws. PM = Powermatic ?
Here is an article that may help.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011075075.pdf
If you can get a Laguna ceramic blade guide kit to fit your bandsaw I highly recommend getting them. This is not just ceramic blocks to fit your guides. These are guides that control a larger portion of the blade than normal. Also one of their Resaw King blades. I believe those are the secrets to easy problem free resawing. An accurately made blade that is consistently ground and sharp that is properly guided. If these conditions are met then blade tension is not a big deal. See this video:
http://www.lagunatools.com/videos/bandsaw.bandsaw1.htm
On my Laguna band saw I just align my fence to the miter gauge slot and use moderate tension on a relatively very wide blade with the above guides and blade and make my cut. No drift. No bow in the kerf.
Of course I have previously centered my blade on the wheels and aligned the table/miter slot parallel to the side of the blade but this is pretty much a one time set up. From there I have just aligned my fence to the miter gauge slot feeling it with my fingers and I am set. It is repeatable enough I don't even make a test cut !
Edited 11/1/2008 2:43 am by roc
Edited 11/1/2008 2:53 am by roc
Edited 11/1/2008 2:56 am by roc
Roc, Rich 14, Tom and Thnitz
Thanks for taking time to write this back, I apprieciate it. I have read Rocs article and the Fortune FWW 173 article, again.....
I have checked the saw for coplaner. My adjustment of the top wheel pushed the blade back on the rubber to a perfect center. The bottom sits slightly forward of dead center on the rubber. As I understand from reading that is correct since the teeth have a set. I adjusted the saw so the top matches the bottom for centering and then checked for coplaner. It is coplaner, from a vertical straight edge and then across the two wheels to check that as well. That all works and Roc the article you put up was perfect to verify.
I went cross town today and bought a fresh new Timberwolf, 1/2" 3 TPI blade. I have been using a Olsen 3 TPI for some 10" resaw cuts. They were new blades. However the TWolf is a different blade entirely. No wander, no drift, no bowed edge on resawing some 8" material. Feed the stock along the fence and no need to adjust the position of the stock.
My bearings are set close, maybe not .001 but darn close. The thrust bearings are within a 1/32 as well. I do have to adjust them when I raise the guide, but I don't see why a guide system could not have a roller bearing guide like a sliding cross cut saw...and eleminate that issue.
Most of the wood I am sawing is in green log form, 3 to 6' long and planking them for stock. The blades tend to get plugged up more with pitch and fibers and over heat the blades. Using the new blade on dry stock gives me a reference point. I know I am pushing the limits of this saw with the wet log situation. I need a saw mill in Phoenix, land of cactus and not trees...
Thanks again, great help!
Morgan, yes the Bubinga table Morgan
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I was having the same problem you are describing while trying to cut green logs on my 17 inch Grizzly. I was using a 1 inch Timberwolf 3 TPI Hook. I couldn't make a straight cut to save my life. After adjusting everything from guides to drift angle, I found that my problem was a combination of having the blade set in the correct spot on the tires and making sure my feed was solid, slow, steady and straight. If you are cutting logs without a sled, I would say that could likely be the problem. If you are using a good solid resaw sled, then try setting the blade just a hair forward of center so that the teeth of the blade are on the feed side of the crown in the tire. These two things worked for me. Best of luck.
Dsmith,
I use a sled patterned after an article, but I would admit I have not the experience to say it is adequate. I use some 3/4" plywood as a sacrifical sled, one bottom and one side to the left. I screw the wood to the side and run it through. Then unscrew and rotate it 90degrees on the flat side. Then rip the rest of the stock at 1" thickness. I use two outfeed rollers, for support, but it still takes two to be safe. I have thought about a full roller table, like they use in assembly lines. What do you use, got a photo?
Thanks Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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AZMO,Good luck. Cutting green wood adds a whole new dimension to the equation and puts stress on the blade and saw it was never intended to handle.Rich
My general conclusion as well. I need a local mill, or I am going to have to learn how to use an Alaskan Sawmill. I really hate chain saws.... <!----><!----><!---->
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For green wood, I assume that the heavier the blade the better. But I don't know. You might want to put on the widest blade that machine can run. See if you can get a 2 TPI.But then you're adding the load of a heavy blade AND that of green wood to the motor and frame. The power needed to move and control a wide blade vs a thin one is very significant.Rich
Rich,
Funny timing, my copy of Woodworking Journal came in the mail yesterday. An article shows a Mesquite bench and plans. This is one of the woods I get from an arborist. The source of the lumber is from south AZ. They plank the material with the Alaskan chainsaw mill. I guess there is my answer... It's an interesting wood and I enjoy the recycle part of using blow downs.
Thanks Morgan
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Edited 11/3/2008 7:29 am by AZMO
Ditto Alan as cutting green wood with sap requires a different game plan. I bought the one Alan mentioned from Highland they designed just for that. I don't remember but I think it was around $20 give or take but that was more than a year ago.
Sarge..
If you're into recycling and re-use, Morgan, how about building a resawing platform so you could use one of those nice, old two-man saws? One guy on the platform, one on the ground. ;-)
I am lookin for a bottom man, interested...;>) <!----><!----><!---->
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Depends on how much mesquite I get out of the deal. ;-)Also, in the interest of full disclosure, it would take my burro about a month to make the trip. Would I get a food allowance? (tee hee)
> having to adjust guides when you raise the guide arm.There may be a way to adjust the tilt of the guide arm to make it parallel to the blade and so eliminate this problem. Unless I am not understanding the problem.My saw has stop screws that the arm is clamped against. Turn the screw or screws and change the angle the arm sits at when clamped.Hey Morgan did you weigh or calculate the weight of that table you guys made that is the size of a small air plane runway ? Just curious.PS: you are welcome. I have wanted my own bandsaw for about two decades and now that I have one I am all "enthused". That is the word my Mom would have used any way.
Edited 11/1/2008 8:57 pm by roc
If it's green, try a blade with more set. Highland sells one specifically for green wood that they call a woodturner's blade. Or you could check out http://www.falbergsawz.com for reset blades.
This could be just the wrong type of blade for resawing. I use Timber Wolf AS series blades that are designed for resawing and have no problems at all. I also did this on my PM 14" bandsaw with the riser in it. Just call Timber Wolf, tell them what saw you have and what you want to cut and they will get you the right blade for the job. They have the best people on the phone, really know their stuff and their products are first rate.
http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/
Tom Hintz
Because there is always more to learn!
Do you have a straight edge long enough to check the allignment of the top and bottom wheels? With two equal length offset blocks, attach this to the lower wheel (one block at the top and one at the bottom of the wheel) and then check the distance to the top and bottom of the upper wheel is the same as the offset block length.
Assuming this isn't the problem, there are two ways to adjust a bandsaw; adjust the fence to compensate for the blade drift or adjust the saw to eliminate the blade drift. I prefer the latter. There have been several articles in FW by Michael Fortune that are very helpful.
With my BS, I have two adjustments for the top wheel. I can adjust the sides of the wheel in and out and I can adjust the top and bottom of the wheel in and out. First, I make sure there are no guides touching the wheel. I set the height for near the largest possible piece of wood. I then adust the sides in and out to eliminate any twist in the blade. I then adust the top and bottom of the wheel to center the blade on the wheel. I then set the height for the piece I am going to cut and then set the guides.
The easiest way to understand which way to move things is to move them to extreme, obviously wrong, positions and observe what happens. With the right side of the upper wheel too far out, the blade will drift to the left because the blade will bite into the top of the wood further left than the bottom. This will also result in bowing.
Once you have the saw allignment set for a blade, you shouldn't need to change it. There is a good chance that new blades will not require any alignment change but you should do a test cut to be sure. You shouldn't need to change the lower guides unless you change the allignment. You will probably have to change the upper guides every time you change the height. Be sure to have the upper and lower thrust guides close to the blade and consistent. Otherwise you will create a front to back bow in the blade during cutting which will undoubtely not give good cuts.
AZMO,
The definitive article in FWW for setting up a bandsaw, especially for re-sawing is by Michael Fortune, FWW Nov/Dec 2004, No. 173, pp 66-71.
It's in the FWW archives for a downloading fee. Follow the advice in that article and your band saw will behave perfectly.
The essence of the advice for getting accurate, dependable, no-sweat re-saw performance is to use a coarse blade. The fewer the teeth, the smoother and easier the cut. A 3 tpi, 1/2" blade will perform the best. The blade must clear the dust from the gullets or it will over heat and flex, distorting the cut. With more than 3 tpi, the gullets can't clear adequately.
The blade MUST be sharp. Were the blades you used brand new or just 3 different blades? The weld must be smooth and correctly made. The set must be accurate. Even allowing the blade to touch the throat plate for an instant while running can change the set on 1 or several teeth enough to ruin the ability of the blade to re-saw.
The blade must be adjusted so that it cuts parallel to the fence with no drift. This is the case when the blade rides exactly on the top of the crown of the tire of the upper wheel (with the tracking adjustment). There is no such thing as "natural drift" in a band saw which needs to be compensated by angling the fence.
LOWER tension is better than setting the blade tension high. Traditional advice about band tension always recommends high tension and this is the wrong thing to do.
It helps that the upper and lower wheels are aligned (co-planar) but this is not anywhere near as important as some suggest.
The side blade guides should be .001" from the blade and should run just behind the gullets. The thrust bearing behind the blade should be a scant 1/32 back from the blade.
No more than gentle pressure will be needed and the cut will be straight when these adjustments are made and a SHARP blade is on the saw.
Search for Michael's article on this site and download it. You won't regret it.
Rich
Edited 11/1/2008 4:30 pm ET by Rich14
Morgan,
How are you? I am recycling a reply I have recycled before.
This is part o a response I made in discussion 40649.7.
Michael Fortune is a great designer, artist, craftsman and teacher. He knows bandsaws. He makes his living knowing bandsaws. He has contributed some fine articles on the tuning and use of bandsaws to FWW and other publications. (BTW, I have never met the man.)
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuidePDF.aspx?id=24093
A properly tuned bandsaw is wonderful. The opposite is pure hell.
Do not assume the factory assembled the saw properly. Most of the stuff I had to adjust on mine wasn't even mentioned in the user guidebook.
My bandsaw has been a joy to use since following Michael's tune up tips.
A lot of people talk about compensating for drift. If you blade is good, then you should have no drift. Once you get the tracking set, it is set. I tension and de-tension each cutting session. The tracking hasn't changed in months and I have been cutting teak, jatoba and padauk only resawing 4/4 X 6".
Read this article and get you saw tuned.
Hope this helps.
Don
Don01,>Do not assume the factory assembled the saw properly.Excellent point !roc
Yep, got er painted and in the box, shes ready to go!
Have you ever played a trick on a friend and roll the Band Saw blade inside out so the teeth are backwards.... <!----><!----><!---->
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> Blade inside out.OOOhhhh man that could mess with somebody !
Goes right along with putting water in a bicycle inner tube...... Which is bad enough but do it someplace it freezes.... Terrible, just terrible tricks. <!----><!----><!---->
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I have no idea about your bandsaw. I did find a link for a manual for a Powermatic 14". Not sure if it is the same as yours.
http://content.powermatic.com/manuals/M_1791216K.pdf
See page 21.
WillGeorge,
That is the one, no real adjustments for the guide system as is it lowers and raises. Just a v groove and mated piece that is wedged by the knob. A spring tension on it so it does not fall which is nice. No method to adjust for left right or fore and aft play. It is bored and machined and that is it!
Morgan
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