BACK AT IT, after 15 years and three major back surgeries
I injured my back in 2006 and thought for the last 15 yrs my woodworking days were over. I had a third surgeryin 2019 and durning the pandemic I started to feel better. It is hard for me to spend much time leaning over the bench or table saw.
So with this new gift and a second chance, I’m building a kitchen wall cabinet. It is 8feet tall and 10 feet wide. (18” deep). Each 30” section is divided by 3/4” plywood and 3 fix shelf and 4 adjustable shelves (thanks to Kreg shelf jigs, didn’t have that in 2005.
Problem is face frame. I have 6 vertical stiles and 14 rails.
In a similar cabinet I use glue and clamps. It is still holding after 25yrs.
In this project I want to do my best because it may get passed down to the family. I don’t want to use nail pins, hands to old to cut joints, what about the Festool Domino?
there is a second project next to the fire place so it may pay for its self in more projects and less pain. It sounds like the old biscuit joints came and left.
your opinions would be valuable to me. I hope I didn’t take on more that this old body can deliver.
Thanks in advance – Don Burton Northport Michigan
Replies
Kapai! Great to hear you are back in the game. That's a big project too.
I presume you are talking about fixing the face frame to the cabinet. In this case biscuits are your friend. They have the edge on dominos as they are thinner, will still permit alignment and are WAY cheaper.
If you mean joining the face frame together then the domino is the go-to, given the constraints mentioned. It would be tempting to use simple butt joints too as, if the face frame is fixed to the carcase, there will be adequate support. It makes more sense to make the face frame separately though as this permits easier installation. You sound like you are well beyond the basics but you might find this video useful as it is quite similar to what you are building, I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6FBYHyLrw
Thanks Rob!!!
Lots of new technology in 15yrs. I appreciate you info and watching the YT video
One strike FOR FESSTOOL 500
Rob, I agree that a biscuit joiner is way cheaper, and they help with alignment, but biscuits are not thinner than dominos. A biscuit is 4mm, the exact thickness of the smallest Domino cutter. And when you think about the minimum width slot of 1 3/8”- 1 1/2” a biscuit cuts compared to the approx. 11/16” wide smallest Domino, there’s no comparison, the Domino is better (except on price!).
Hey Rob
Watched the YouTube and he is using pocket screws for all the stiles and rails. I was over engineering this project! Therefore, I’ll use pocket screws and yellow glue to mount the face frame to the carcase.
Somethings don’t really change just the tools.
Thanks again
Don
If that's a normal project and you have the means, buy the domino. You'll be glad you did. I kick myself for putting it off because of the big green price tag.
Thanks for replying!!!
In the 15 Yrs a lot of jigs and new methods, but I’m 15 yrs older also.
Two votes for Fesstool 500
I’m putting a face frame and future projects is cabinet on each side of the fireplace, I’ll be using all 3/4 thick wood.
Does the Domino 700 cover 1/2 and 3/8? Plus the spec for depth is ONLY 28mm /1.10 seems to Shallow ?
Does the 700 cover 1/2 and 3/8 what? And the spec for depth of what? If you choose to get the 700, which is ideal for larger projects, you should really get the Seneca Small Mortise Kit accessory, which allows you to use the 500’s cutters, all the way down to 4mm (5/32”) x 10mm deep, for 20mm tenons, all the way up to the 700’s 14mm x 70mm cutter, which will cut approx. 2 3/4” deep mortises for 140mm tenons. Does that help?
Yes sir it does!
If you do get the Domino, get the 700, not the 500. It's far more useful in everything I do.
After 15 years on the shelf, you NEED the domino set-up. Treat yourself man. Look around for any other things you deserve!
Ditto on the Domino, if you can afford it! In the decades I had a woodworking business Dominos didn’t exist, biscuits were the new kid on the block. We used them for many things, including face frames. The smallest biscuits were still too big for kitchen cabinet rails, so we’d have the exposed slot go out the tops of the top rails and the bottom of the bottom rails on wall and base cabinets. The biscuits helped align the face frames and added a little strength to the joint, but the main strength was that they were glued to the carcasses. I bought the very expensive Lamello Top in the 80s, I think it was $600-700, a very expensive hand-held tool purchase back then. Fast-forward to a few tears ago, I bought the Domino 700, and haven’t once regretted that very expensive decision. I highly recommend getting the Seneca adapter to use the 500 series smaller cutters, as well as their Domiplate accessories.
Ditto on the 700, and the Seneca kit if you need the smaller 500 Dominos.
Thank you for sharing your experience!!!
I’ll check in to the adapter.
Don
I feel for you. Withholding the details, I have reduced use of my left hand and my eyes don't focus together. Regardless, hope you never need Festool parts or customer service. Then again, my experience with them was about a jigsaw. Oh, for what it's worth, I love my biscuit joiner.
And thank you. I thought I was the only person who spells it carcass.
Mikaol
Thanks Mikaol!!
Will the Domino 700 a 3/8 biscuit worth on 3/4 maple thicknesses?
Don
The approximate 1/3 rule of mortises and tenons apply, so a 6mm Domino, a little smaller than 1/4” would work, but I use an 8mm in that thickness. Here’s a good list of sizes: https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/festool-domino-joiner-model-comparison.aspx
I use the 8x80, sometimes the 8x100, on face frames and the like. For me, the 8x50 is just too stubby for most things.
I remember back in the day when a biscuit jointer was all the rage. Thanks Norm. I bought a Dewalt biscuit jointer 15 or more years ago and had never used it until last week after I found it during a shop cleanup and forced myself to use it on a project. My default has always been to use dowels. After all, doweling is what I was taught back in shop class many decades ago. Doweling, for me is second nature and is quick and easy.
Enter the Domino. A well thought out machine that after you buy it and an assortment of dominos your cost is 10 times that of a biscuit jointer. Simply not worth it to me although I can easily afford one. I can hear to howling now. “BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!” I think I’ll stick with my new friend the biscuit jointer in future projects and see where that takes me. Of course, there is always my go to - dowels.
You get burned for dissing Norm - That's like asking for Holy War to be waged!
I would love and use a Domino but the biscuit jointer is way cheaper so it's what I have! There are a few things, such as registering curved parts against each other though where the shape of the biscuit beats the Domino, but otherwise for me, it would also live on the shelf full time, had I the option.
If timing is a factor, the Domino is out. Festool is saying they won't be available until March 2022.
I did eventually buy a Domino. It was not the game changer I thought it would be in my shop & my work methods. I sold it a few months ago for $200 more than I paid for it.
That said it is an excellent tool, but hard to justify for this project- my personal viewpoint. Pocket screws work well for face frames.
We’ve all bought tools we think we need (or want) only to have to watch them sit on a shelf. “Rewarding” yourself with a tool is a terrible reasons to buy one, unless you’re a collector.
But, it’s your choice to make. Personally I don’t like tools sitting around that rarely get used, and I will be selling my floor mortiser for just that reason.
A Domino as a a tenoner is fine, I got better alignment with a $150 biscuit joiner.
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