Be sure to check out the wooden hand plane article in the magazine. Where you ask ? Popular Woodworking mag April 2010 p 34 to 39.
Good article !
Hey . . . Queenmasteroftheuniverseandbabybunnytrainer gave me the mag for my birthday. What can I say.
Notice the plane masters use square dog holes in their benches. Nuf said.
: )
Replies
Hi roc. Have you been on vacation, haven't seen you around for a while?
wot
Nah I just been useless as usual. Exploring the limits of couch sitting and TV watching. Once I got the calluses built up twelve hours is nothing. The shop has been a consistent thirty some degrees all winter so I been avoiding it but that is not really a good excuse. I guess it has been work and the economy; waiting for the other shoe to drop etc. Things are looking up with the recent warmer weather and longer days; knock on wood.
I have looked in on Knots from time to time. Enjoyed the discussion on sawing dovetails.
How about you? Have all the earth quakes and big waves and air liners falling out of the sky missed you there in the Falkland Islands or what ?
PS: here is a pic of my recent birthday cake
http://gallery.me.com/tone531/100043/IMG_0639/web.jpg?ver=12687159440001
that is as close to a chisel as I have gotten for a while
PPS: looks like things have been improving around here. Just when I learn to post pic from my MobileMe photo files I find I can just do it here like in the good old days.
Thank you Rich Clark for your tutoring.
Nice to see/read you again, Roc.
How about dogs that have square heads and round tails? ;-)
hey roc,
so, the chisel i understand. what's with the quill motif on the b-cake?
eef
Roc,
I still don't understand square dogs...
I read Odate's Japanese Woodworking Tools - very interesting and insightful book - thanks for the recommendation.
And good to hear from you again!
Hi Chris,
Glad you enjoyed Toshio !
Square dog verses round dog. It's easy see. it is like the Ford vs Chevy argument. Ford is just plane better.
Square dogs vs round dogs. Square (rectangular) . . . they are just plane better.
: )
Hope that helps clear things up
-30 degrees
hey Roc nice to hear from ya!
Next thing we know it will be uphill both ways from the shop and the house.... 30 degrees should be a walk in the park! I hear that plane edges cut better the colder it gets, leaves a mirror polish that will reflect just like your photo! Since I am working in sunny AZ I will never know that thrill....
Glad you made the next Birthday! Keep cheating the devil his due!
Morgan
Not heating the shop; must save for that new iPad from Apple
So I was getting such good finishes on the wood off my plane blades because I am too cheep to plug in the shop heaters ? Could be, could be . . . and all this time I thought it was because of my singular sharpening prowess.
Up hill to get up out of the over soft couch and up hill to get up the stairs when I leave the shop. You got it. Of coarse when I finally get into the shop I don't want to leave it.
iPad :
http://www.apple.com/ipad/
Steve Jobs told me it would make me a better woodworker. Of coarse I believe every thing he tells me.
: )
Those quirky planes
That is one of my favorite publications as well. The article on the planes was interesting indeed. I had no idea they were around and so so so Popular. Would like to try one of em sometime. Perhaps Lataxe will buy a full set and allow us to check them out like at the library. Ha...
Morgan
Glad some one brought us back to the planes/article
I was beginning to wonder how long you all would let me roam around in MEville
A full set. That would be quite an extravaganza. How long does it take to get one of these planes? Say a finish plane or a jointer?
Azmo,
What is that the pic in your profile ? Looks like it could be a full moon with a mountain range called Phenix Rising.
MEville...
No roaming or wallowing allowed around here you know.
Boy the article reads, and by the looks of how they makes them, "It Appears It Could Be A Long Time" to quote Crosby. Nevertheless put your order in and forget it about and one day it will be there. It was the profile planes that got me going. I have picked up a few at swap meets and they are just tuckered out tools. So they gather dust under my bench somewhere long and forgotten. Of all the tools I hate the most it is a router, the noise is burdensome on my mellow.
Check out this link Roc. The crystal ball of all knowing.
http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/general-discussion/crystal-ball-all-knowing
Morgan
Lathe and finish
Roc, They turn it on a lath and when rough, set it into another stone that is dished and then with grit and water rotate it to polish it. Both stone and ball come out smooth and round then. Amazing little thing. If you ever get the urge, the Tucson Gem and Mineral show is the most extrodinary event I have been to. Litterly thousands of vendors from all over the world, name a spot, and they are there. One complex will be motel with 200 rooms, each room has a trader/verndor setup inside. Now mulitply this by 36 venues and some are the size of football fields. It takes day to see them all, worse than the Simthsonian!
Glad you enjoyed!
Morgan
Williams - a Living Treasure
Finally got around to reading the article yesterday. Very interesting. I especially enjoyed the part about their unusual business plan. I don't know whether I'd like being called a "living treasure" though. Larry?
Chris,
I haven't given the "treasure" part of that much thought. The last couple years have changed my perspective on the "living" part. Having been tagged with it, I'd really like to keep it because the next step can only be to include the word "former." If one thinks about the finality of the next step, I'm guessing they'll understand why I want to keep that title just as it is for as long as I can.
Can't argue with that.
Kudos to your trio for doing such an excellent job (I am told). I will have to add the DVD on making hollows and rounds to my wish list. I admire your business philosophy and hope to one day be so busy to be also trying to talk people out of hiring me. I really do enjoy teaching as well and have begun teaching seminars at Lee Valley. Demonstrations at shows are always fun too - you get to talk to a lot of people and swap knowledge and stories.
Perhaps if enough people buy the DVD, and start making planes, and start looking for wood, we'll be able to get someone supplying quartersawn beech or black birch.
Finding wood is a bear. So far, I have found decent stock at Hearne and WPenn hardwoods, but none of it was cheap, and none of it was beech or birch. I have been finding fruitwood here or there, but never enough for a full set, and in the $15 range per bd foot, with some waste and unusable parts.
The DVD is worth every penny and then some, though (the best DVD I have seen on any subject) - eventually, you find wood, and if it's QS cherry, Hearne had plenty and in narrow enough or wide enough boards (depending on how you use it) to not waste three inches of board width.
I've mentioned this in other forums, but thanks again Larry for going into so much detail on how to make the planes, and giving enough to make it doable for most novices. As well as thanks to Don for putting some basics on how to properly lay out a new moulding. The instruction removes a lot of trial and error and guessing at what jigs would be helpful to get the work done accurately and quickly, etc.
Oh, I want to make a set!
David,
Thanks for commenting here. I work with a local sawyer, and if I ever get a chance to get some beech or birch locally, I will get it quartersawn. Isn't birch a little soft for planes though? I see a fair amount of fruit wood as well as holly and will try to get some of that quartersawn. What thicknesses are required?
Just to be perfectly clear, the DVD we are talking about is titled "Making Traditional Side Escapement Planes", right?
That's the one.
I would think true 8/4 dried stuff would work well for most of the planes (that someone would use making furniture) except the largest sizes, and it would be enough to make some rabbet planes to go along with them . I haven't made any of the smallest ones, so I can't recall how small the blank would be to be able to make them - maybe 5/4.
As far as dimensions, probably 12 inches long dried and 5 inches wide in blanks would be useful to make the planes the size larry suggests.
So far, I've gotten some super hard maple from Wpenn hardwoods. It's nice, but I haven't used any of it yet, and I know it's going to be a lot harder to work with floats. (I cut it with a handsaw and set it aside - it's some of the hardest hard maple I've seen).
Black/yellow birch should be hard enough for planes. White/Paper/Silver or whatever you want to call it would be a bit soft. I haven't looked into its density, which isn't ultra important, but more dense like beech makes for a nice feeling plane.
Cherry is a decent substitute, but also not that easy to find in 8/4+ true quartersawn. I think it was about $13 or $14 a bd foot at hearne.
I also got some quartersawn lacewood to try (not really a good plane wood, I think, but a curiosity), QS apple and some QS english sycamore. All if it was costly. It seems like it should be easier to find suitable wood.
I would think that with the release of the video, anyone who wanted to cater to making a set of QS beech blanks to make a half set could charge a premium for them, and ship them in a regular box.
Chris: Just me..
Get some Purpleheart.. It is a wonderful wood for a plane. Hard and tough and pretty.. At least for my work. OK so... I have only made one wooden plane. Purpleheart is almost indestructible! Beech is hard to come by near me...
PH is extremely difficult to work with floats, and is splintery, though. It makes an excellent wood for krenov style planes when you can minimize the amount of chisel and float work on a plane, but it'd be a bear for moulding planes.
I scored some black birch this morning. If I can remember by the time i get to it, I'll post how it works out.
I have seen beech (well, didn't see it) only in one place where it would probably be big enough to get QS pieces out of, and that was hearne. You would have a lot of waste, and it wouldn't be the cheapest way to get it. When I was there, the owner was the only guy in the shop (christmas eve) and there was snow everywhere. I asked him about the beech, and he said he probably had something outside, but it would take hours to find it (i.e., we're not looking for it was the sense I got, and that statement from him wasn't at all unreasonable as I was only looking for about 20 bd feet of wood). I don't think most wood places think much of beech because it misbehaves with humidity changes and drying, it generally doesn't sell for much to anyone, and the one of the western european countries killed the market a while ago by dumping it here.
Maybe the best way to get beech is to find someone who has a large beech tree and harvest it. I don't know how it rives, but that would be a good way to come up with quartersawn billets. If you ever have an old plane that needs a little removed from the sides with a float, or a wedge refit, it's clear then why larry likes it so much (and why it was used historically). It just gives way to the floats very nicely, but it makes a nice plane that isn't too light or soft.
sorry for the dupe (what this post was)- how do I delete it?
To delete
David,
I end up asking the moderator to delete duplicate posts etc.
Not a fan
Y'know Will, I just am not a fan of purpleheart. I dislike most everything about it - it's splintery, an ugly colour... but it's cheaper than maple around here.
Mr WIlliams,
That article was an insight and avidly read, not least because your attitude to commercial aspects is a refreshing change from the usual US greedy-mode a la Freedman-Hayek businessorc rip; and even flummoxed the author of the piece, who seemed unable to imagine behaviour not involving Total Exploitation. I greatly admire your various attitudes in the matter of those planes and their design/manufacture. If I was enamoured of complex profiled edges and such I would be devouring your DVDs and attempting the procedures. After all, there is lots of nice beech hereabouts.
As to staying alive; well surely you have already frightened off the Grim One with your feisty attitoodes and propensity to bite at a bum if you are not carefully stroked? In all events, I see you surviving into a ripe old curmudgeon of the very best cream and salt taste. In this regard may I add a beratement to this bit of praise and suggest you get into a few more Knots dawgfights, as this must surely get the juices flowing? Go on, go on, go on! You know you want to. I will pick out your wisdoms and guffaw publicly at your faux pas.
Lataxe, always glad to find a propah character in a world of clonebrains and Foxnews zombies.
Larry, could you please tempt Lataxe into purchasing a Williamsburg set for his Plane Library...? Perhaps we could test them out the side of the pond furst and make sure the fit was acceptable? Great article and if the wait was bad before I can only imagine what it will be shortly.
You should be considering hiring some young energetic highly directable younguns like in the mold of Chris... : )
Morgan
"How long does it take to get
"How long does it take to get one of these planes? Say a finish plane or a jointer?"
Roc,
I don't think the wait time for bench planes, excluding a jointer, is as long as that for side escapement planes. I have a few of their planes. My smooth and fore planes were in stock and shipped within the week. My try plane was a 6 week wait. This was a year ago. Call and ask.
Matt
That's encoraging
in stock or as long as 6 week wait . That's great. in the article it was sounding like it could be one, two or three years.
Matt,
Thanks. One of these is on my very short list of the three or four dream planes that I would order today if I were burdened by an over stock of money.
PS: FWW web site forum dudes: I JUST HATE THIS THING THAT I AM ATTEMPTING TO CREAT A MESSAGE IN ! ! !
I try to cut and paste and it winds up at the top of the page and then I highlight and drag it down into the place I intended it.
I just lost part of a sentence else where in the paragraph. Have no idea where or how. Just gone.
It is fancier but where do you get this silliness? Don't answer that. Just make it work. Like any other chat room in the world.
Please.
PPS: I almost made an attempt to make what I wrote make a bit more sense but would probably loose half of it in the go. I must remember to make it up in the word processor else where and then post it here. Invariably I see something to change after I do. I'm tired now . . . gotta rest. What a mess.
Like I said, this was a while ago. I think the wait for molding planes was approximately 2 years at the time. The wait time for the bench planes vs. molding planes is different.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled